I guess I'm in the minority. I voted as follows:
Video 1 = 2
Video 2 = 2
Video 3 = 1 - This was a tougher call because I like some things the SS does but overall I like the Tubes as they are a bit more musical and seductive. The SS have more leading edge but can bite a bit in the vocals. Now, this is me listening through a laptop with AKG K533 Pro headphones. I make no assumption I'm anywhere close to what Jay is listening to in his room. But, it is also fairly easy to hear the difference between Tube and SS gear here. Not sure I'd pick the same in person though.
For those who think they can't hear a difference, get a good pair of headphones and listen and you will indeed hear differences.
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@viber6
Interesting observation on headphones and using cups to space them from your ears.
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@whitecamaross
Alright! Looking forward to the start of the next system. |
@thezaks
"I agree - wondering if choices would be the same if we listen in-room vs YT." Very valid question. I thought about that too. Jay is hearing way more being in the room than we'll ever hear over YT, not matter how good of a headphone system or playback through your main rig is. There's no doubt.
@kren0006
I too could care less which was which. I simply picked what I like the best.
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@jays_audio_lab
I appreciate your kind and insightful comments - you hit the nail on the head, metaphorically speaking.
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@kren0006
@maxima95
Agreed. Let's keep this thread on track. |
Some nice info above.
Just about to break 15,000 responses WC! |
Spoiled by Boulder and Alexx, yes.
Can't wait to see where this new ride goes. I'm sure WC has great things in store for us all. Hopefully better digital too. |
@astewart8944
Yep, I was with my childhood friend from New Braunfels very recently and he loves diet Dr. Pepper. He says it tastes just like regular. I love DP too, but always get regular and when it is not available, I get Mr. Pibb. Root beer next.
@whitecamaross
I like Texas a lot myself. In addition to the "Big horsepower cars, big homes, plenty of space..." you have really nice folks too. Something we don't really have much here in SoCal. Just a different culture. |
@kren0006
Yes, TX is too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. Just one reason I'd not move there. I really enjoy my visits there though.
Long listening sessions come with a well-dialed-in system. WC is not there yet with this one, just give him some time. |
@whitecamaross
Is that the XVX or the Wamm Master? |
@ghasley
Your contribution here is much appreciated. I surely agree with your comments - "The Audiogon community used to make it very uncomfortable on trolls and were more welcoming to opinions. Lets make it that way once again". |
It would be nice if those very few who only want to create drama, for them to just change the channel and exit. This is WCs thread and he can choose how and when he wants to spend his capital and based on whatever feedback he gets. Respect is given were it is received. |
@inna
I often wonder if English is your first language. You wrote "Synergy indeed" then later say "Part of a synergy talk is BS". What are you meaning to say with the statement "Part of a synergy talk is BS"? |
@inna
Yes, Jay and Mike are in business. But I don't see them pushing anything. They are just sharing what they hear. Unless one was there, they cannot say anymore. This is not a question of class, but rather of synergy. |
@whitecamaross
I just went in again and tried the video and I got amazing bass quality. It seems either I get thin sound or I get really good sound. I'm using a laptop and AKG K553 Pro headphones. Very easy to hear differences.
So, to others who felt that the sound wasn't that good, go back and try it again, at least one more time. Once you hear the track with solid bass, you know you are getting the full SQ from YT. Sounds very nice to me. Would like to be in the room though. |
mbl kicks *ss! Heard it many times and love it. But you need the right room and the $$ to play in that pool.
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@whitecamaross
@inna
So, yesterday I just happened to be sitting at my computer when the new "Magico M6: We begin to get serious" video was released. I began listening to it immediately. It sounded bass shy and midrange heavy. Well, I went back to the video about 20 minutes later for some reason and found that somehow the sound was being limited, not sure if by YT or what. But when I listened to it a second time, it was very linear with great bass, midrange, and top end. Again, I'm not sure why that is happening, but it is.
As a matter of fact, it happened again today. I went to YT just now, because of Inna's comment, and played the video and again and found it to be
bass shy and midrange heavy. I tried the video about three more times and boom, now it was playing correctly. So for those who heard lack luster sound please try it again. Maybe WC can explain it here. |
It is expected for everyone to have their own opinion. But it is not expected for some to be so uncordial. This is supposed to be fun, not adversarial. |
techno_dud
Dealer profit will vary from brand to brand. If you want to know what it is on a specific brand, contact a dealer and ask. Jay is in no way obligated to share this private business information. I'm sure that you negotiated for all your gear, we all do that.
It seems you have no filter, you just say whatever you want. Please use a little decorum. It will go a long way. And, you are not saving anyone, you are just being aggressive/abrasive for no particular reason. As Jay noted, all POVs are appreciated, but acting out does not look good on you. Finally, if you just think this is the worst thread, you can always change the channel. |
At least one poster hear stratifies amps into levels like they can be absolutely graded into levels. While I may also somewhat agree, this will not work on an absolute basis. Best way to go about it is to pick the speaker you must have, then demo with a number of amps until you find the best synergy. You may have assembled the "best speaker" and the "best amp", but they may also not work well together. This is also why it is good to have a dealer that can help you through the process. If you want your system to sing, this is the first part of the process you must navigate. WC does that by process of elimination and speaking/visiting with his contacts. I applaud that. |
$5k to make the MSB dac including R&D. Now that is hilarious. |
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Turntables are great. You just need an amazing table, arm, arm wire, cartridge, platform, phono pre, high quality interconnect, etc. And yes, it will be very rewarding. But unlike having a digital source that is also optimized, and has access to Tidal & Qobuz, you still need to buy and store records. This is a major turn off for some and I'm not sure that Jay wants to futz with vinyl, but he'll let us know if he does. When I need a vinyl fix, I just visit my nearby dealer. |
@whitecamaross
I've not much cared for the 160Ms. Heard them on DAW, Alexia 2, and Alexx. Thought them best on the DAW (still not all that great) and didn't care for them on the Alexia or Alexx. Have not actually heard the 160S but my dealer did have one. I preferred the Momentum gear on any of these speakers or even the Progression on the DAW. Price is more, I get it, I'm just sharing actual experience. As an aside, not sure my dealer ever sold any 160Ms. |
@whitecamaross
As you may remember, I've heard the Ref10 pre many times. I forget if I heard the 160Ms with Ref6 or 10, but I don't think the Ref10 could rescue the 160Ms. I think the Ref10 is one of the best preamps I've ever heard. And the Ref10 phono preamp is the best phone pre I've heard for sure. |
@whitecamaross
I will respectfully disagree with you on the XLF vs Alexx. I've heard the Alexandria XLF a few times, but after hearing the Alexx, I'd think going to the XLF is a backwards move or a side step at best. I've never had them in my room, only heard at the same dealer (not my local dealer). And have not directly compared Alexx vs. Alexandria XLF in the same room at the same time.
I heard the Alexx V a couple weeks ago with music that I'm familiar with. They had 50 hours on them and the pre/amp were BAT Rex3 and source was Quboz over dCS Rossini DAC+clock. I think the new V model may be a little better, but the owner thought they were mostly just different rather than better than the Alexx v1. Again, YMMV; this is just one man's observations + the owners comments. And I have not heard the Alexx with the BAT combo. |
@rbach
There, he said it. Concise correct reply. |
It may be "lazy" as WC points out, but it is also a very wonderful way to find new music. Opting out of streaming music wholesale because they may not have the best version of a recording is shooting one's self in the foot. I'd encourage you to give it a try for a month, most services give you that to decide if you like it or not, so there's no loss. -BTW, Tidal often has two or three different versions of the same release. Not sure on the other services.
Cheers |
@viber6
With all due respect, I believe that ron17 hit the nail on the head. |
In the end, it is what each of us likes - our own personal reference or standard. That does not make it THE standard, it just makes it what it is, what WE like best. There is no right or wrong, so we need to live and let live. Enjoy music the way you want to, that's why you spend time and $$ to assemble and enjoy a system. You build it for yourself, not someone else.
BTW, I've seen no attacks here, there were none. |
It is now time to get back to Jays adventure. |
This thread has gone way off course. Please take the discussion to PM or else where. Thanks |
@jays_audio_lab and others
It seems that several of you are hearing a lack of bass and it is presenting as too much upper end. One poster wrote it is missing the "bottom octave". I have experienced this a number of times and can say unequivocally that it not Jays video, it is YouTube. What I've noticed is that sometimes when I play a video, indeed there'll be no bottom octave, really no bass at all. But I've found that if I leave my headphones connected for five minutes or so and then try to play the video, the bottom octave is certainly there - a very night/day difference. I'm not sure if YT is throttling the download or what is happening, but it has happened enough that I just have to be patient and know after the video is on a tab for a little while, all the musical info is there. I just start a new tab and do something else for a bit then come back to the video and it works. Hope this helps. |
@jays_audio_lab
All,
See my post at 06-07-2021 6:41pm
for reference.
I went over to YouTube to listen to Jay's newest video and it had nearly no bass. But I was not surprised as it has happened to me many times. As Jay says on YT, they are "stabilizing" the video. I found I just needed to leave the video on a tab on my computer, then wait five minutes or so, and when I went back to play the video a second time, the bass was all there. Sounds really good. So remember if you are not hearing significant bass, just wait a few minutes with the video still on your computer, then go back and it should play as Jay recorded it. This should solve all observations of little bass. |
I've always had a negative view of Magico. I've heard them probably five plus times, don't remember what models (A3 twice, and some smaller and larger models), I just remember they never sounded good. I figured it was probably setup or associated gear, but I had no way to know. Hearing them in Jays room I found I quite liked them. Could I tell if I wanted to purchase them based on one of Jays videos, no. But, I did find it would be cool to look into them further some day if the opportunity presents itself. Again, they sounded quite good in Jays room - that is a testament to Jay and him trying to get the best out of them he could. Poster @ron17 gives Jay props for his hard work and putting up with the BS, and I'd agree with him. |
@rbach
I think you are right. At times Viber6 has contributed to the thread in a meaningful way. But as you note, toning it down and refraining from going off into the weeds would help Viber tremendously. Home audio is a very subjective hobby. We should agree that what we like is the "best", but that it is the "best" for us, not anyone else.
Respect demanded will never be given. Indeed, it must be earned. |
While I get the reasons for buying audio gear that are not based on sound quality alone, my highest want, I also understand that many people have many different purchase metrics. But the thing we have in common is we speak with our wallet. There's nothing wrong, or for that matter, right, with that. It is what it is. People should not be judged on that. The definition of an audiophile is not set in stone, there's no real way to judge absolute performance, except with your purchase.
BTW, I purchased a new system a couple years ago and very much wanted to find either an integrated or separates that were better with the TAD E1s, but I could not find that and so I bought the matching Evolution series amp/pre. In my opinion, they are not the least bit sexy. But they really did sound the best with the E1s, go figure. So, am I right, or am I wrong - neither, I chose what worked best for me. And I'd bet some of you would agree while others wouldn't. There's no reason to become a zealot over what we each may think is the only way to do audio. Rather let each have their own choice. Agreeing to disagree, sitting down to have a meal or drink together is so much more fun than bickering about what is "right". |
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@rsf507
@kren0006
I agree with you both on the Viber6 conversation. I've been perhaps a little too mild in my few postings asking for Viber6 to take a step back and hear what others have to say. If we could all just agree that none of our positions are "absolute" it'd be a lot easier to have a conversation around here - I think most do understand their opinions are indeed just theirs, but EVERYONE needs to see this bigger picture. Though most don't seem to speak up, I'm sure others wish that the constant interjections of absoluteness or comments on "hostility" do not add nor apply to this thread.
Finally, in regards to "hostility", I for one do not see Kren's or anyone else' comments as hostile to Viber and I hope that Viber can understand that when someone posts an opinion counter to his that it is just an opinion. Constantly trying to get others to come around to his point of view is not looking good on him nor adding to this thread. As chazzzy007 said, "Let's not dick up our time and the thread here with pettiness". I agree, let's move on.
@kren0006
I'm truly sorry for your loss. I think about this from time to time and will be retiring in a few years to spend a lot more time with my couple of amazing friends, hopefully before we all pass on. God grant me time with them. |
@chazzzy007
Wow, my heart goes out to you.
BTW, I have an N10 and was able to bring the noise floor much lower using an UpTone Audio EtherREGEN with a Paul Hynes SR4T LPS. Would love to try an N20 or W20SE. |
@chazzzy007
Yes, I can tell you that the ER is no snake oil for sure. It just drops the noise floor tremendously and because of that you can hear much further into the music, it just becomes more natural. And as you found adding an LPS also helps too. In the case of adding an LPS to the ER, it was nearly the same improvement as the ER brought. You don’t need the LPS to hear the improvement the ER brings but it sure is another step up. I recommend both. I think Jay has an ER as well. |
@chazzzy007
I've thought about getting a Puritan 156. Have you compared the sound of your amp straight into the wall vs. into the 156? The reason I ask is both the Shunyata Hydra and IsoTek Aquarius I've tried detract from the sound I get from my amp going straight into the wall. |
@jays_audio_lab
I agree with your comment that it is nice to have fun conversations. Just wish the one that can't help themselves would also contribute in the same way. No rebuke necessary.
And for those that can't seem to join in the fun, they can always change the channel. No one making them keep coming back. |
@chazzzy007
That is a very nice offer. I'll IM you tomorrow. |
@viber6
"This is a great lesson in the fact that every product is unique, and careful auditioning is needed by the buyer. An honest dealer is an asset, who has the experience to know the attributes of each product, and is not just a salesman who says the expensive item is better. Sometimes, not always. "Better" means different things to each listener, depending on his preferences." Yes, I totally agree. |
@kren0006
"When I purchased my last set of speakers, I did detailed auditions (we’re talking 30 minutes to an hour each, sometimes several hours across several amps, sometimes over 2-3 sittings) of 20-25 speakers all around my budget. But I keep my stuff a long time." I did much the same with my new(er) system and it paid dividends - bravo to you for taking your time. I plan for the amp/preamp-dac/speakers I purchased to be with me at the end. The source will probably change, but the Evolution system I purchased works so well for MY needs. I had five years of search and I still love to listen each day, for as many hours as I'm given. |
I submit that no one was "bullying" Viber 2 pages back. They were just asking that often "absolute" opinion that Viber takes is only absolute for himself and no one else. It may have also been that some were wearing thin on the offtopic stuff. I know, I was one of those. And I refrained from commenting, but finally after a few days, asked that that type of commentary be reconsidered/restrained. We all have our reference, but it is OURS alone. Trying to make it for all others is wrong.
BTW, Viber6 said something I totally agreed with yesterday and I quoted him about that. Never heard anything about that though. |
@jays_audio_lab
Well, I'm glad that the XLF is working out so good for you - wish I could be there but CA to FL is a long way. As I'd mentioned to you in a PM, I thought the Alexx was better. Admittedly only heard the XLF three times and always on different occasions but same dealer with ARC twice and Naim the other time (liked Naim better). And I've heard the Alexx 1s many times and the Alexx V a few times, same dealer but different amps; Alexx with D'Agostino Momentum monos/pre and Alexx V with BAT Tube Rex 3 monos/pre.
Seems you've mostly had bad luck with footers.
Are the XLFs set up to Wilson spec or just to your liking? |
@kren0006
"Imagine if you still had the Boulder monos and preamp….
" Totally agree on that. |
