My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Showing 50 responses by riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
I’m probably older than his father. Never talked to him in my life. I have no desire to peruse every topic on Audiogon and bombard people with questions about equipment I have no intention of buying. I have better things to do 10+ years into retirement. I should also mention I am nowhere near as old as Vibes and Mr. Deci...those guys are older than dirt!! LOL |
Congrats on the 160M. I have never heard anybody trying to use them with ANY Electrostats so wondering if there is a compatibility problem. Will be interested to hear your findings. Viber...thanks but its 24/7 everyday which is why I warn the OP from time to time to keep the volume and especially the Bass down or live with a Fire Alarm/Buzz going off in your head non-stop for the rest of your life. Not fun. |
...And if you dont like them you will lose your *ss trying to re-sell them unlike Audio Research, Mcintosh or the other more established brands. Go buy a Bel Canto Black system and watch more than 50% of your investment go down the toilet overnight on the Used market. THATS why the OP doesnt buy ultra boutique brands. He would go bankrupt trying to flip them. I think YOU should buy them and tell us how they sound. |
Actually it was OLDER than dirt but I understand that dementia might be creeping in and facts and comprehension get fuzzy at your age. I’ll start a GOFUNDME page for your forthcoming incarceration in a nursing home. Once my other ear goes I will take up knitting and start making you some bibs with a SRV Logo so you can drool away with pride. What are friends for? |
Actually if you follow this thread you will see that WCSS only gets Amps that he can at least get his money back on. I will bet ANYTHING he isnt going to buy a CODA and then try to flip it. That would be a 30-40% loss...might as well invest in JC Penney stock. Im sure CODA's are wonderful like Bakoon and many other boutique brands but if you buy them prepare to OWN them indefinitely. Try flipping them on a constant basis and you will be living under an overpass in a cardboard box in short order. |
Hey Vinny, Isnt the Ops fault you came late to the party (Or entrance into the Asylum might be more appropriate). You can thank a certain individual for posting 700+ posts on the thread in the past year for making this page so difficult and daunting to navigate for somebody just discovering the thread. Just IGNORE those posts which represent about 1/3 of the entire length of this thread....that might be a low estimate. |
That's a double edged sword. If you rave about it many will think you are being a "Shill" just like a magazine reviewer in order to keep receiving more product down the road... and if you trash it you will be worried no other company will ever send you a "free trial" piece of gear to review again. Tough spot to be impartial given your already on a waiting list for another one of their products. I fully expect Viber to exaggerate every single positive thing you have to say about it.....endlessly. |
Always best to play your cards close to the vest. I understand the desire to want to validate yourself (feed your ego) BUT thats like drawing 3 Aces in Poker and then showing them to the rest of the other players. Not a smart play. You've compromised yourself by letting out the "inside information". Had that not been done nobody would have any reason to question or have doubts about your sincerity in the forthcoming review...it would just be like any other piece of gear thats been discussed before. Hopefully lesson learned for the future. |
I dont think Merrill is cheaper than other SOTA CLASS D Amps. Costs a lot less to build a Class D amp but for some reason the savings arent passed onto the consumer. Why?? Cause I guess they get away with it. Merrill has Bernardsville, NJ listed as where its located. Do you have ANY idea how expensive property is there? My Ex is from Liberty Corner,NJ (Next town over) and she attended Bernardsville High School. It costs a small fortune to live there. Guess THATS partially what your paying for...huge property taxes. |
Review out today in Parttime audiophile on the Merrill 118 and Christine Pre. Seems like its very fussy about what speakers work with them so I think expectations should be held in check until you actually hear how they work with YOUR Speakers. Definitely not "plug and play". Somebody send Viber a box of tissues before he reads it. Excerpt below: At approximately 700Watts into 5 ohms, however, the Merrill Audio amplifiers did struggle on recordings with explosive dynamics such as Mussorgsky’s “Pictures at an Exhibition”, with James Levine conducting the MET Orchestra (DGG 437 531-2), or the famous Proprius recording Cantate Dominos. The lower octaves are no match against the 2000W McIntosh Mc2KWs, bass drums and low organ pipes did not go as low, as if the speaker’s low-frequency roll-off happened sooner. The chorus became garbled up at high volume (Over 90dB), which is a tell-tale sign of insufficient power |
Some people don't live in an area where they can audition gear OR not certain brands anyway. So what does somebody in that position go by....other people's experiences who's opinions (and ears) they trust. I have well over 200K worth of gear that I never heard before I purchased. So that makes me crazy? Just as crazy to go to a Store or a show and think that gear is going to sound exactly the same in your room/environment. Its always a crapshoot unless you are able to audition stuff in your house. I don't know ANY dealers remotely close to me that would let somebody take their gear home with them to play with for a week or 2. Must be a nice option to have. |
T+A has horrific resale value in the USA and the OP only buys stuff he can later flip that retains close to what he paid for it. Unless you get T+A gear at 50% off MSRP you will get your butt kicked. SUNNY in CA had a REAL hard time unloading his HV gear at almost half price. He still has some of it left I believe after a year of trying to dump the remainder of his inventory. I wanted to get T+A but it turned out to be too "bassy" for me. Give me Luxman and its sweetness all day long at 35% or more discount to overpriced T+A |
Why is this guy comparing a Luxman Integrated which you can get for around 6K against a T+A Int which costs 2.5X more??? Ive never heard Luxman integrateds personally (509 or 590...Im sure I would prefer the 590)....just the 900 combo. 900 Combo you can get for 21K. Easy to get 30% off of Luxman...try getting that deal with T+A!! The T+A 3000 is more pleasing to my ears than the 3100 where they jacked up the bass. Luxman you will get all your money back upon resale if you buy it properly. Not so with T+A....not even close. Go ask Mike at Suncoast which is better...T+A or Luxman Separates. He carries both lines. |
The OP is a frequent customer of Suncoast and knows the owner very well obviously. If he thought T+A was far superior to the Luxman or Constellation separates then WCSS would already have tried them. Common sense right?? If you have followed this thread then you already know the OP’s stance regarding value and resale ability. T+A here in the USA is not highly sought after which is why you will take a bath when you try to flip it as previously stated. That could very well be the reason WCSS hasn’t had it to this point...much like Accuphase. Has nothing to do with the quality of the product....just a bad investment if you don’t plan on keeping it for very long. Mike is the one who pointed out on his own webpage about the differences between the 3000HV and 3100HV. No anger here. Just stating the facts. Glad your happy with your 3000HV. Since you bought it used you probably wont get killed on it. |
There are multiple threads about T+A gear on the site. I have no skin in the game so no need to make something up. What would be the point? Mike was asked specifically what the difference was between the 2 models and he mentioned a couple of things, one being the bass. Another T+A guy (Kouppis) said the same exact thing about the Bass being more prominent on the newer model. Mike’s comment may or may not have been made on the T+A thread...maybe in the Integrated section. I’ll let you spend your time dwelling on it. As you already know there is somebody looking to ditch their 3100 Int AND CD/SACD spinner on Audioshark so maybe you should be all over it. Here is Mike's personal list of Top Amp/Pre Combos...14 of them in all. Whoops.....No T+A on the list. https://www.audioshark.org/amplifiers-8/best-pure-musical-amplifiers-power-not-important-15645-page6.html |
Why do you keep imagining there is any anger involved here? You need to develop thicker skin and not take somebody's opinion on audio gear as a personal attack. Don't see any posts in this discussion where I mention any gear I own. All I said was I have NEVER heard luxman 509 or 590 but would probably prefer the Class A 590's. The Topic of this conversation WAS why hasn't WCSS tried T+A Gear and I told you why...because of the pathetic resale value which he doesn't want to eat. If WCSS lost 30-40% on his gear swapping habit he wouldn't own a nice house, have a wonderful family etc.... He would be sharing a cave with Sasquatch in the Florida Everglades and dumpster diving at McDonalds. For the Record...I own Dag 400 Monos, ARC 160M Mono's, First Watt SIT-3 Mono's, Pass XA-25, Valvet E2 SE, Audio Note Jinro, Luxman 900 and other gear from Ayre, Esoteric, Conrad Johnson etc Like I said no skin in the game. Pretty sure I answered your initial question to WCSS thoroughly. Its all about being able to recoup a substantial amount of your investment. |
Why not just go to fellow YOUTUBE Audio "reviewers" with phenomenal microphones and ask them what they are using. Here are a few examples: DECWARE HIGH FIDELITY...Call up Steve and just ask SOUND SOMMELIER HIFI MANIA Pursuit Perfect Systems On my crappy 1 inch Hewlett Packard PC Speakers I can tell the difference between speakers they feature. Should be phenomenal for those with better setups/headphones etc Why keep running around in circles and blindly experimenting...what a waste of time and money. Go to the best places and duplicate what they have. |
He's a Holistic Witch Doctor....not a real one. He throws Chicken Bones, does Chants and incantations, makes herbal tea's with the Eyes of Newts etc Al Lewis (Grandpa) on the Munsters had more credibility. Why do you think he cant afford the Merrill gear or GT Audio Speakers he was foaming at the mouth at for so long? |
Congrats on the EVO's WC. 205 as a Pre?? C'MON MAN!!!! :) Here's a recently posted review of the Merrill 118's for all that are interested. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1018/Merrill_ Audio_Element_118_Monoblock_Amplif... |
Always good to have multiple options at your disposal. Why be stuck with 1 of anything? If you know anything about recording/engineering...especially during the drug induced 70's/80's...there is rarely such a thing as an "honest" rock recording that turned out exactly as the artist wanted it to sound. (People like KNOPFLER are an exception not the norm) Too much pressure to produce in a short period of time due to the record company wanting product NOW. Many of the guys behind the boards were just as messed up as the people playing. I can give you a Who's who of producers/engineers who admit to being coked out of their minds during the recording process of the biggest acts of the time. I deal with these people all the time and have been for 33 years now. So PLEASE dont tell me whats on the recording IS an authentic accurate presentation of what was initially intended. To "mess" with the sound to make it sound better via gear/speakers makes it NOT authentic?? Completely clueless. I can use Klipsch speakers to make a recording sound like Im at a concert and Harbeth to take the same recording so it sounds like Im in the studio. Why not have the same option when it comes to Amps/Pre/Dac/Disc Spinners?? Your just limiting your enjoyment and musical experience going down such a narrow path seeking "accuracy" which is a Myth to begin with.... in the world of Rock n Roll anyway. Variety is certainly the spice of life in the audio world. |
He's married with a small child. Completely normal to be neurotic given those factors. At least he's not a "drama queen". Who the heck has to tell people they are leaving the conversation/thread...well I can think of 2 of you. At least the TROLL in Canada had the decency to just shut down and not make a fuss on his way out the door. I believe your statement has all the credibility of a KISS FAREWELL TOUR.....you'll be back...just like your RANE buddy who also stated he was going to play elsewhere...but keeps coming back with the same drivel month after month. |
Actually I have seen some of your posts on other threads and you receive the same blowback that you do in this thread. If you want I would be more than happy to copy/paste other people's thoughts on Your opinions from other threads which will delight the majority of people here. Why do you need to constantly bring up the subject of money being spent?? Is your goal in this hobby to get the best experience for the cheapest amount?? You must be the most unsuccessful doctor on the face of the planet to be such a miser. I find life MUCH more enjoyable when I dont feel the need to compare Gas, Food, Stereo, etc prices. Your taking years off your life being a Shylock...which I guess is beneficial to the rest of us eventually. |
Umm....Not a Financial advisor/manager. I manage millions of dollars of friends/family money for FREE...not as an occupation. Been retired for over a decade (from I/T). Hard to be positive in regards to your comments cause you just keep beating people over the head with the same redundant crap for almost 2 years now. Its also the reason so many people that USE to be involved in this thread have since moved on. Same ol same ol....Your the expert at everything with no practical use of any of the components mentioned. All you have is theory. You have the wisdom of somebody that has memorized the entire book "Kama Sutra" without ever actually partaking in any of the "events" in real life. |
Like all Tube amps of any kind you have no idea what you have until you start tube rolling. Unfortunately WCSS didnt slap in a couple of Tung Sol 6550 Black Plates in his REF 10 which according to anybody and everybody that has done this its an entirely different beast. NOBODY says the REF 6 is better than the 10...its more forward and aggressive. Its like comparing a Klipsch to a Harbeth. Viber showing his total ignorance again as always and twisting everything like a vengeful woman with ulterior motives. |
Waiting to hear the budget Stillpoint alternative from Mr. Knowitall....Probably something like Take 2 Triscuit Crackers and Crazy Glue them together. Do this 4 times and place them under your Wilsons in each corner. This will cost you about $1.50...slightly less than the magnificent Zip Cord I use. |
The saddest part of this thread...for the last 1.5 years...is the same person asking a zillion questions and has absolutely ZERO desire to purchase any of the products described. I fail to understand the point of the constant and irritating interrogation. These poor guys at Merrill, GTA think they have this guy on the line and he's actually going to shell out for their gear? I feel bad for them and all their wasted time and efforts. If your product costs more than a few G's it aint gonna happen. |