@whitecamaross
A closer look at your photo and I do indeed see the pocket on the left.
Now that you are using lower-priced speakers, you should do some research on the TAD E-1s. When you can find them, you can pick them up for a very reasonable price.
Can't wait to hear your newest impressions.
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@whitecamaross
Seems you are alluding to system synergy and very importantly the amp/speaker interface. I'd wholeheartedly agree.
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@whitecamaross
Easy to hear the loss of the Boulder gear. Would be nice to hear the songs you used on the last videos before the SOTA gear departed. |
@whitecamaross
"The best 5,000 dollars I've spent is the shunyata Denali."
I forget if this is the 6000/s V2?
Have you tried to plug your amps into which ever Shunyata PLC you bought? If so, can it provide all the power the amps need or does it shut down certain aspects of the sound like bass, detail, etc?
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@whitecamaross
You and I had a kind of similar experience. I heard the new Chronosonic XVX at Excel Audio in Newport Beach. D'Agostino Momentum monos on speakers and Progression monos on subs. Clear Audio Statement table and DCS stack minus the upsampler, Nordost Odin 2, newest top of the line HRS racks. I've heard the 160Ms with DAW and Alexxia 2s. They just don't have the same connection that the Momentums have. And I believe I wrote something about this when you had the 160Ms or 160S, I forget what you had. Anyway, the system, as I've noted above, was really amazing. I am very familiar with this system for some time with the Alexx speaker and the Master Innovation table and the new XVX + Statement is an amazing huge step up. The Momentums give it the wow factor you are looking for. I have not heard the XS gear, but have heard the 160.8s and they lack the wow factor of the Momentum monos so I understand your comments on the 160.8s.
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@whitecamaross
What you are saying makes sense to me. Maggie's need the right amplification to wake up.
I've heard Maggies at the shows and been to their demos a number of times. I was never really impressed. The last show I heard them at in Los Angeles they were stacked two high and supposedly had great amplification and source but after 20+ minutes in the room I was really ready to leave. Don't remember the model on that last demo.
So, understanding that many of us have not heard them set up and amplified correctly, it stands to reason that with the right amp, they can sing. Because plenty of people say they can, I've just never heard it. And apparently you have now found a speaker/amp interface that makes them sing. Congratulations on that and can't wait to hear about what you discover next.
Also, very astute your point that most people pair Maggie's with suboptimal amplification and so never hear the potential they have.
Frey 2 speaker wire veiled: either they were on dark components and/or they were not broken in for at least a week. Can't remember ever hearing anyone say Frey 2 is veiled. I probably have hundreds of hours listening to Frey 2 and have never heard them sound veiled. |
BTW, I’ve heard the Sabrina’s mentioned (probably have 20-30 hours of listening time) and I’ve never heard them veiled; played with ARC, Pass, Luxman up to 900 U separates, D’Agostino, T+A. It seems that the veiled comment was most likely due to incorrect setup or amplifier mismatch. Could have also been that the media played was not up to par. BTW, don't own Sabrina's or Wilson. Or for that matter, Frey 2 speaker cables though I do own a Frey 2 power cord. |
@whitecamaross
I do not own Wilson, but have access to most of it at my dealer, and he is less than five miles from my house. He has Sabrina up through XVX. I visit often and was there about a week ago.
Alexia 2 vs Alexx. It is absolutely no contest, Alexx is way better. No hyperbole here. I've heard both with ARC and D'Agostino, and no matter what amplification was used, the Alexx is simply much better. Alexx is also a lot better than the Alexandria XLF. The XLF is a bit older design I believe; I've heard them with ARC and one other amp that escapes me.
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@chazzzy007
@briano
"Downgrading your front end and/or electronics to purchase a better (more expensive) speaker makes zero sense unless there is a compatibility problem. Your analogy of too much horsepower for a particular car does not apply here. A speaker can only reproduce the signal it’s sent. If any part of the signal is compromised, the speaker can’t fix or replace it. I have heard many inexpensive speakers hooked up to very expensive electronics and it’s shocking how much better those speakers sound than when hooked up to lesser electronics."
I fully agree here.
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It would be very nice if all the supposition some folks feel so inclined to provide on an all to often basis, would be refrained from. Let the thread return to WC and his adventure. |
W20 will kill the laptop.
Can't wait to read about your results.
Does the version of the Vivaldi you purchased have the built-in streamer?
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With as much as Viber6 posts, filtering those posts can become confusing because you need the context of said posts. That's why many have asked that Viber6 post less and stop with the summing up and telling us all "how" it should sound. WC has heard it in his system and he is telling us how it sounds to him. This is the topic and purpose of this very interesting long-running thread. Let's keep it there. |
@whitecamaross
Does the version of the Vivaldi you purchased have the built-in streamer?
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@whitecamaross
Vivaldi streaming: I had to refresh my knowledge on this. I was referring to the dCS Mosiac app that was introduced earlier this year. Couldn’t find exact info on it for the Vivaldi stack, but if I remember right, I was told that the software installs in the upsampler. The only reason I previously mentioned it was if you have that it will potentially save you the cost of a streamer, PC, and interconnect. I am just becoming familiar with dCS at this point as my dealer just took on the line. Both the Bartok and Rossini have the Mosiac app and so you save on a streamer. I have not yet had the chance to demo the Mosiac app against a standalone streamer but I'd like to.
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@whitecamaross
You said "I am still contemplating buying nordost Odin 2 PC but I am also thinking of getting the upsampler for the Vivaldi. I also haven't forgotten about the music server". If you get an upsampler, you will have access to the Mosiac app, which uses the upsampler as a server. So you can kill two birds with one stone. I have heard it used as a sampler in the Vivaldi stack but have not compared it to say, a W20SE.
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@tjassoc
Very nice response with great perspective.
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@whitecamaross
hmmm, seems it is time to push "the virtual "block" button" again.
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@whitecamaross
WC, thanks for the very nice Christmas present. Like many, I've been following since near to, or at the beginning. I've enjoyed all the twists and turns and how you've ordered your journey. Looking forward to 2020 and all your observations. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to your and your family and to all following this thread.
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@whitecamaross
I have a lot of experience with the Sasha DAW, Alexia 2, and Alexx. My dealer, about 5 miles away, has them all. Also has the XVX, but that's not for this conversation.
The Sasha DAW can be put fairly close to the wall, don't need $100k in amps/preamp to come alive, and sound very good IMHO. They work well with the Ref160M but are even better with D'Agostino Progression mono's and pre.
The Alexia 2, in my experience are also wonderful sounding speakers but IMHO, they don't play well with the ARC 160M like WC says. They much prefer D'Agostino Momentum and are pretty good with ARC 750 SE, but the DAG to me is better. I actually prefer this speaker less than I do the DAW. And apparently others feel the same. In the end, it is ALL about what YOU like. I have no experience with the Pass XS300 but guess they are more like the Momentum gear by how WC describes them.
WC has mentioned the Alexx before and out of these three speakers, Alex is much better. I know, it should be based on cost alone. But I like the DAW better than the Alexia 2, so go figure. The Alexx, to me, has a very compelling way about it and I find it even easier to listen to than the Alexia 2. Again, that is about what I like and so just an opinion.
As a note, a lot of what I read from WC where I have first hand experience, is that we think or hear a lot the same.
Enjoying the direction of the thread lately, so glad it is on track. The above is simply me sharing my listening experience with the described gear and not intended to contradict anyone else's experience.
Happy New Year to you all.
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@whitecamaross
I am a bit sorry I expressed my opinion on DAW vs Alexia. I simply wanted to share my findings - not start back-n-forth bickering. It is true, and I quite agree with you that the DAW cannot scale like the Alexia 2. I just like the tone/timbre of the DAW better. My dealer has sold relatively few pairs of the DAW and more of the Alexia 2 with Momentum pre/monos. I, like you, have no dog in the fight. I don't own Wilson, but they are in my favorite top-three speaker manufacturers. And just so you and everyone else may know, I own TAD. Finally, my dealer likes the Alexia 2 better. In this hobby, it is about what YOU like. We all buy what we like, within our respective budgets, and so we don't need to make any excuses why or argue why what we like and or bought is better.
If you do move up the line to Alexx, I can tell you that it will be a huge move. I've heard them with ARC 750 SEs and Momentum with the Alexx. I would not go the 750 SE route, the Momentum is much better and much more reliable.
Re the 160M. I very much agree that they don't work well with the Alexia 2, at least in comparison to Momentum (I do like the 160M with the DAW, which is an easier-to-drive speaker). My dealer has a nearly new 160S connected to the Alexia 2s but haven't had the chance to hear it yet but would like to.
Again, these are just my personal impressions and they are not meant to dispute anyone else's.
Happy New Year
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@whitecamaross
Yes, you indeed have shared a lot with all of us. Speaking for myself, I want to personally thank you for that. I've enjoyed all the twists and turns. And if you're videos are similar in style, I can only think that you'll be hugely successful. I wish you all the very best of luck in 2020.
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@whitecamaross
I have an N10 myself and can say it does work very well. I wish the W20SE were in my ballpark because it is that much better. The N10 will have to do but I can vouch for how well it works.
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@kren0006
Yep, you are right. All us regular readers do know. WC, keep up the excellent work and thread. |
@speedbump6,
Totally agree with Jay. Great last sentence.
@whitecamaross
If you can’t keep three pairs of speakers, then keep one of each type. DAW plus whatever Maggie you like. No need to have two of the same type. IMHO of course. (made this comment without looking at todays updates. Sorry to see DAW gone, but looking forward to new speakers)
BTW, very interesting comment on the Gryphon.
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Just cued up the video. Great first effort. Very eager to see new content and to hear about the past so we can be informed on where you are heading. Of course, I've read the entire thread, but I expect there'll be new and exciting insight as well as being reminded of things I read two or three years ago.
For clarification, is the Boulder pre gone?
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@whitecamaross
The second video was a step in the right direction. I would not worry, and I don't think you do, but if so, please don't worry about the "show off" comments or those saying you just want to brag about your expensive equipment. I did not hear that at all. I heard someone that simply wants to share his experiences with others. That is why your thread has been so popular. People like to share with one another but not so much on the bragging. In the end, any particular viewer can choose to watch or simply move on if they don't like it. It's what makes our country great.
I agree. Videos should be shorter in the 5-10 minute range.
Power cord video would be great. I'm very interested in that.
Also, having more movement on camera would be great.
Finally, I do hope you have a ton of fun doing this and if you make a little or even a lot of scratch, then all the better.
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@techno__dude
Not everybody? Well most for sure. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. We don't need a self-proclaimed truth detective here. |
@whitecamaross
Thanks for your personal review of the DAG vs. XS 300; nice step-up in video production as well. I was wondering if the DAG could compete with a two-box mono that weighs over 300 lbs per side. That the DAG is fairly close in some regards and perhaps a bit better in others is pretty good for a 95-lbs-a-side single-box mono.
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@whitecamaross
OK, so how about switching the Odin 1 to the Momentums and see if they can better compete? I've no dog in this fight, but curious if a better PC will allow them to compete closer with the XS.
I do think the XS has an unfair advantage with more power supplies, etc. It makes sense to me on that basis. As for me, I'd keep the amps that win the sound contest. Either the Momentums or the XS can drive just about any speaker very well, but the XS appear to have the advantage based on your comments. I'd like to hear them, but have only heard stuff at the 160.8 level or lower. And the 160.8 do not sound like the Momentums at all to me.
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@kren0006
07-27-2020 11:47am
I agree wholeheartedly with you. |
@blumartini
@chazzzy007
Please, all, ignore the Trolls. They've said all they need to say.
OK, let the thread get back on track.
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let the ignoring continue...………. |
Ignore the trolls. Please. |
@mrdecibel
@p59teitel
@Axememan
@Chazzy007
X2
Let's keep this thread on track.
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@whitecamaross
I would use the Cardas PCs for the following reason: when you provide the cleanest power to the amps, then you can see, or rather hear, what the maximum the XLRs can bring to the game. Using the stock PCs will choke what the XLRs can do.
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@whitecamaross
Out of all respect, do what you do best WC. You know we all dig what you are doing.
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@whitecamaross
If you look anything like Ms. Jana, then please, inject yourself in the video. Thanks for the tip @tecknik! Now back to the thread.
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@chazzzy007
For what it is worth, I just listened to BOTH videos. I clicked on chazzzy's link to video 2, watched the video and when the video ended it started the much longer first video.
My findings using a laptop speaker:
Audiomica = Thicker with maybe a little more meat on the bones.
Odin 1 = very nuanced. All frequencies seem well balanced, in other words no highlighted frequencies. Holographic. Audience sounds very real. Overall realistic feel.
For me, with emphasis on the fact I'm using a laptop speaker, I like the Odin 1 much better. It brings all the little details that the Audiomica seems to gloss over or leave out like air, ambience, high-level details that are included in the ambiance, a better sense of realness. You just get more with Odin 1. I'm not sure that is for everyone, but it is for me. This is what really makes listening fun for me.
Addressing the laptop speaker variable. If you can hear differences between the two cables on a cheap laptop speaker, imagine how much more so when in person. If you can hear a difference (fairly easy for me to hear), then you can to some point extrapolate the difference for yourself. And I'd imagine that with my conservative assessment, I might be under playing the difference between the two brands.
@whitecamaross
Thanks for taking the time to do this for us. I think it is a learning experience for us all.
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@whitecamaross
I'd agree with @guidocorona and @chazzzy007
Odin 1 is much more extended and liner top to bottom - just more natural.
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@whitecamaross
I like your proposal.
When you post what the three looms are, please also describe what the loom consisted of and also pricing as well.
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@whitecamaross
LOL is right.
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@whitecamaross
To clarify, I've not heard Alexia 2s with the Wilson Subsonic subs. But have heard both the Alexx and XVX with Subsonic subs. Subs are like $110k, so probably not really a good investment for Alexia 2s. I don't know what the Thor's Hammer subs cost or what they sound like.
I have heard the Alexia 2s with very large REL subs and DID NOT like it at all. This was at a dealer well inland from me, not my local dealer. |
It is a bit hilarious to read about mbl on this thread. I've heard the mbl 101 X-treme system a number of times and if I could afford it, and had the house/room to set it up in, that'd be my end game. And it is anything but a "little rounded". |
@zprr
wow, you said "haha, poetic" and the post got removed. Wow, just wow.
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@kren0006
I picked up on the "canned corn" comment but let it go - thanks for brining it back. Though I understand the intent of the poster with that comment, it surely does not accurately describe that speaker. Just like "boxey" doesn't either. |
"Criticizing him about "clarity" or " neutrality" are meaningless arguing.." This is so true and getting old.
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