WC, how about I trade you my M900u for your Diablo 300. I always wanted to try Gryphon. Do you think The Gryphon integrated would be better than my Mac C47/ Lux M900u combo ? ( I could resale my pre, associated power chord and interconnects....simplify my system).
What you guys think, bad or good move ?
|
viber6, your input is very appreciated.
Nope, never eard the Lux M600A. Only the 900u and 700u.
|
WC, second time we catch you in an act of mid-fi love ❤️! 😂
I would bet your Mac love is rising each day you enjoy the synergy with your fabulous S5 mkii.
|
MC 2301s vs Pass 200.8s vs Lux M900us.
That would be a GLORIOUS battle.
My vote is for the the Lux , but I am biased cause I own one. A rare ss amp that has tube midrange with ss bass and highs astonishing resolution... There is a reason why many whats best forum audiophiles have sold their big tube rig for the Lux.
I guess class A Pass Labs can also be very competitive with the best tube out there.
|
AT 65k usd , the Dag M400s better sound best than the Lux M900us at 30k...it`s more than double the price. BUT how much better, that is the killer question. Because it is well known that the Lux M900us punch well above their price range. So, for most audiophiles, that difference may absolutely not be worth the big extra $. |
WC , I can’t wait to read you about the 200.8 vs the MC2301s.
Are the Pass due to arrive soon ? |
ARC....the company that builds tube gear to sound like solid state. Never understood that thinking. It’s ridiculous by my standards.
- How does your ARC tube amp sound ?
- Very neutral like good SS.
- WTF ?... |
Ria, you changed your Ayre VXR Twenty for ARC tube amplification ???? Are you serious about this ?
That is a downgrade move. VXR twenty is leagues away technologically from whatever ARC makes. Also build...the vxr casing is one solid piece of aluminum...no bolts or joints.
King move on the 900u though. This piece is imperial. |
Riaa..
- Buys Ayre VXR twenty, pays premium to own Ayre name and one of the best amps made to sound sound like tubes.( without the cons of tubes)
- Then sales the latter to buy a tube amp.
-Then is so satisfied with its last move that he feels the need to buy AGAIN a SS amp like the 900u, based on an opinion on this thread. ( But tells he doesnt give a s...about other’s opinion.)
- Then says I m a troll. But I m probably the biggest 900u pumper on this thread ( with WC), but he doesnt care about my opinion...then gets a 900u.
........ |
Viber6 agreed with you, there is no need to call anyone a troll on this thread. Most of us stay classy, some do not unfortunately.
Greyhound, +1 on your love for Mac tube amps. Like WC says, they sound nothing like SS... Not like ARC that tries to make their tube gear sound like SS...totaly ridiculous and paradoxal to me ...makes no sense at all. Mac has both SS and tube, Mac assumes each of them...pros and cons. Luxman eats the same soup, Lux offers a tube integrated and Lux don’t feel the need to make it sound NEUTRAL like SS...
|
WC, I agree , Boulder is dead neutral. WE REALLY MUST BE ON TO SOMETHING HERE...WE BOTH FIND THE SAME BRAND NEUTRAL.
|
Now Charles is trying to redefine neutral. Lol
All magazine reviewers, all forum reviewers, you have been warned...The word neutral will not be tolerated anymore. Is your neutral my neutral, is their neutral our neutral.
I have never been so much confused now that the definition of neutral has been questioned by Charles...the Socrates of modern audio. |
Very interesting read and opinions. 👍
My take on preamp vs amps 2018 technology.
I don’t think it is harder to make a good preamp than a good amp. 10 years ago I would have agreed, but not now. Dacs and preamps have evolved the most in the last 10 years.( speakers and amps much less so)
It is easy to see sota integrated amplifiers that rivals separates like never before. Why, because it is the preamplifing section that has evolved...smaller and better ...less cost for the maker. Living example:
I had a 2006 Ayre combo...the K5xe mp and V5xe. I sold it and remplaced it with a Hegel H160 integrated that was obviously better... I also this a test with the Ayre combo, I borrowed a friends Yulong DA8 Dac to use it as a remplacement preamp of the K5xe mp.... Wow I could not believe my ears, much clearer, better prat , better resolution with the little Yulong. So it s easy to conclude that preamp technology in the Yulong dac is better than the old preamp technology in the Ayre K5xe mp. My point has been proven with a tangible living example.
|
Jetter, very good observation.
WC , why try the PS Audio bhk 300s again ? |
Viber , I find your EQ opinion strongly valid. ( and before I would have never considered an eq in my system as I was a stubborn purist). This thread has opened my eyes ( and ears lol).
Since I have tasted the tone controls in my Mac preamp, I would not live without them !
So my recommandation to users looking for a new integrated or preamplifier, go with something like Accuphase, Luxman, McIntosh, etc. They all have EQs or tone controls that are always bypassable. Once you get a taste of this, you cannot go back.
greyhound, my vote also goes to the 2301s ( vs the BHK 300). But again WC is in for a very interesting experience comparing both, and trying the 300s on his Magicos. |
browndt, You should sell your 350.8 and replace it with a Lux M900u. Just saying while there are still 2 available on audiogon. They tend to be very rare and go quickly. It would be a very nice upgrade to your system.
WC can tell you more about both because he compared them thoroughly.
|
I know WC,
BHK 300s sucks.
|
ARC Ref6 and Ref10, Luxman C900u, Ayre KXR 20.
All 4 are the sota. It’s a matter of taste and system synergy in choosing one.
Personnaly, I like the C900u...less expensive, with tone controls, etc. |
Imagine it gives ´´the spank’´ to your Ref10. 🤭 |
PS audio has always been about dacs. BHKs and their preamp will be forgotten like every other not so great piece of audio gear.
|
Sorry if some may feel offended by my strait forward opinion. But I have every right to say I don’t like PS audio vision on amps and preamps. Nevertheless, I ´ve always liked their vision about dacs.
Riaa, BHKs mono and preamp are not less expensive than favorably comparable gear. |
When you have to roll tubes to make your 15k BHK monoblocs sound better............wow! My wallet will be emptied by something else.
|
I have no power on people seeing Troll in someone offering different opinions about different gear. It is just sad, really.
I have absolutely no problem with someone improoving a product by changing tubes. If you like the experience, enjoy, I have to respect that.
But, I don’t like a company that sells a sota expensive product that will under perform if it is not modified. This is not my vision of ultra high end audio gear.
|
I have never read an online review saying bad things about Pass Labs. This is why a lot of audiophiles come here because WC does not fear to give honest information about how Pass compares to the other big guns in the category. So we can know Luxman 900u and Rowland 925 best the Pass Labs amps. And maybe the Macs 2301s, we will know soon when he receives the 200.8 monos.
|
dep14, at the price they sell those Pass or Ayre amps , they better ''at least sound damn good'' !... |
No Pass XA200.8. Me thinks the ´´ PassLabs lobby’´ was afraid of their amps being spanked by the 2301s. Or that WC would objectively find them not really better than the 601s, and subpar to the famous Lux 900u.
And please don’t tell me that there is no such think as a PassLabs lobby. I call it the snowflake hi-fi brand...As soon as someone says something bad about Pass, it seems everybody looses their mind... |
Subjectively or not, we get a fairly detailed view of how the big guns compared with each other in WC’s system. I understand why some dealers or makers can be afraid of this thread conclusions, they well know some more expensive products performs no better than some less expensive ones... When that happens, they bring in the ´´everything is always relative ´´ card big time...Yeah yeah...
|
I trust WC ears, thread and ranking so far. 1_ Rowland 925 monos. 2_ Luxman 900u monos. 3_ Mcintosh 2301 monos. 4_ Simaudio 760A stereo. 5. PS AUdio BHK300 monos 6_ McIntosh MC601 monos
Call it what you want...subjective, objective, bobthespongective... I 'm here to know and acknowledge this ranking. Or else, I would not bet here and audiogon forums would serve nothing... |
Another funny neutral tube amplifier brand...Why t. f. would I want neutral sound from a tube amp ?.. Never could and never will compute the biggest hi-fi paradox ever ( or may I say biggest hifi joke ever) ... Tube amps that sound like solid state...tubes amps that are geared to sound like SS...tube amps that do not sound too much like tubes...tubes amps that have the pros of ss amps...lmao
If you like neutral, buy SS.
If you like tubes and their pros, assume yourself, get a natural tube amplifier....Just go something ´´fully Mullard ´´ by the name of God.
Doesn’t tubes sound best or not ?...
The day I decide to embrace tubes, and let go of my SS rig, I will choose something like Shindo, Leben, Mac MC2301, Lux tube , ... |
Exactly what I’m saying. Paradoxal audiophiles searching for solid state qualities into tube amplifiers. Just like looking for sport car qualities into a SUV. For the love of God, buy a Ferrari not a Porsche Cayenne...
|
This thread always go back on track. Because WC created something stronger than that little background haze...which is fun and sometimes very much interesting nevertheless.
Even if we go off the rail , I’ m sure WC and the mods are not afraid one bit of it coming back on track when WC writes and opens the original path again.
Biblical. ;) |
Judicious advice from Viber6. Could save you $ WC.
The choice of amp depends a lot of how much tube sweetness the REF10 brings to the table, the synergy with the Magicos , and the tastes of the op. If enough for him, he can go SS amp...powerful, fast, resolute. If not enough, he can go tube. Yes the Lux brings a nice dense and juicy midrange, but my guess is a full tube amplifier can go further if someone crave for that famous magic of tubes.
I ´m a SS guy, but I must admit that WC’s experience with the Mac 2301s opens a door in my mind about a future tube amp to replace my Lux.
I wonder if a powerful Spectral amp would be to WC’s taste to go with his REF10. They say Spectal is powerful, fast, resolute...an iron grip like no others... It could make the Magico wake up their FULL dynamics . Opinions about Spectral amps ? |
I use Nordost Red Dawn Leif Series for speakers cables. Very very good value, they do compete with much pricier cables. Not at all the same cables as the old Nordost series. 20 solid core conductors with silver plating, you just don’t need more technology in speakers cables. Remember that most speakers use normal ofc cable in their cabinet. Normally, the trick is in the quality of the connectors, bare wire being the best way to do it but not practical in most cases.
You should try those for fun one day, I would not bet my money on the wireworld. But I can be very wrong, sure the difference in price is high.
I found the Shunyata Alpha digital power cable to be absolutety magical on my dac and preamp. I don’t know what they put in there but I ve falled on my buttocks when I eard it on my dac. It cleans the sound like not other, and doesnt mess with dynamics. You should also try one on your Esoteric. I ´m sold on Shunyata for power cables , they are imho unbeatable for the $.
|
I don’t mind reading Viber s postings which are very interesting. His last post about treble was very good. When WC doesnt post and takes a break, I’ m sure he doesn’t mind us discussing things a bit.
Share the hifi love guys, not the hifi hate. This forum is about having fun. Moderators are very kind because they only erase the posts that are abusive, and generally let discussions go by themselves . This is a good thing. |
Viber, I never tried the Denali but I’ m interested to know more. My gear is directly plugged into an Oyaide R1 outlet ( with a dedicated circuit to the breaker panel .) Power cables are Alpha Digital and Cobra Zitron.
What are you using for ac outlet? And did you compare the sound directly plugged into the ac outlet vs using the Denali in between ?
|
Silver 8 should be more suited as interconnects imho.
Cables in order of which has more effect on a rig:
1_ Power cables.
2_ Interconnects.
3_ Speaker cables.
This is why I use Shunyata on power and as xlr on mine.
Nordost on speaker cables.
Very hard to beat mix in the industry. |
WC , like you, I did not believe before that power cables were the most important. I realized I was so wrong when I tried a Shunyata Alpha Digital pc on my dac.
Try one , thank me later. It has some kind of filter in it that cleans everything. You never know your music has that haze over it, until you plug that cord into your dac ! |
SS cables ...
6k$ for cotton insulated silver... Absolutely 0 patent technology. Lol |
I do believe in cables. As I said before, I have an almost complete loom of Shunyata Zitron cables, except for speaker cables wich are Nordost.
Both brands have patented their technology. Both brands are owned by engineers with long history, Shunyata in noise reducing hospital tech, Nordost in aerospace wiring. Both can explains with science and measurements the performance of their cables. So I don’t mind paying 2k for pair of Anaconda Zitron XLR. But I will never put 6k on a brand like SS that has nothing patented or scientifically explained. I call them the esoterism brands... SS is one of many. I will not name the others. Not the time nor the place to start this kind of debate.
|
My cable process:
1_ I refine my options amoung brands that makes sense. ( pedigree and science)
2_ I listen and compare between #1 options, let my ears decide.
Better process, much less mistake probability, compulsive buy probability, buyer’s remorse probability. Much higher resale value probability.
tecknik, +1 about your post
|
|
Is Mola Mola a type of dance ?...
|
Viber, thanks for the Denali Advice. I like reading you about new Class D sota amps out there.
About the Denali, do you think it would still make a difference to my system, even if I've already got Alpha noise reduction power cords...those already have filters built in them. They really do a very good job. Also, here in Canada the AC is very clean as it comes from hydroelectric turbines...clean , reliable, stable 120v ac.
|
Speaking of cables, I was inspired by WC s tryouts lately. I borrowed a pair of the top of the line Shunyata XLR Sigma to compare with my Zitron Anacondas XLR ( unshielded version).
i must say that my system is pretty well fullly optimised resolution and transparency wise... Dedicated circuit and panel, oyaide r1 outlet. All Shunyatas power cables, upgraded fuses, etc..... No question, this system can tell a cable change,
The new Sigmas packs a lot of technologies, feel free to visit their website to know more about those.
Are the new Sigmas better ? I must admit yes. They are a tad clearer than the Anacondas. Did I bought them, no. At double the price of my Anacondas, plus the 50% resale hit I would take selling them, the difference does not justify the upgrade for me. Someone else may think otherwise.
|
Viber and Guido, +1
(Wow , me having a personal agenda ? Funniest thing ever wrote about me... )
Some takes this thread a bit too seriously. Remember this is a hobby, we share the best we can. We are here to have fun. WC has created a very popular thread wich makes us reunite and discuss on his and our audio experiences. We don’t agree about everything, so what , imagine how dull it would be if we would all have the same opinion about every piece of gear...
|
I haven’t miss anything, and I have read through it all...
Isn’t there a way you can skip Viber’s posts if you find them so much unnerving ?
When I read a magazine, if I´m negatively biased on some articles or writers, I do turn the page and skip the part I don’t like. I don’t go on a rampage asking the magazine owner to rethink the whole newspaper... |
Another snowflake audiophile...
|
I know you are not. Respectfuly, posts saying Viber has taken over the thread are just plain wrong. |
WC, what would be, among all speakers you experienced, those that were the best at putting air between the instruments. By that I guess I mean imaging. Please guys correct me if imaging is not the same as air between the instruments.
All feel free to share your experience about this.
|
Boulder warning...another way of saying our amps are made so colorlessly neutral that most recordings will sound like crap...
WC, again your input is very appreciated. I thought so about electrostatics imaging and separating the best. Would you say your Magicos are the best cone speakers at imaging and putting air between the instruments? Or you eard better separation elsewhere , maybe Focal or Wilson are better at this.
I’ve read Sonus Faber and Focal are very good at imaging. |
