My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 50 responses by techno_dude

Nice WC ! A very deadly system without doubt.

And the overweight krell dino  is already accumulating the dust ? Lol
So basically what you are saying is the 700cx is as good as Pass 350.8 and Simaudio 860A... So we can all save 15k by getting the former instead  of the latter s...
Wilson Sasha 2 vs Vivid a G1.

A very interesting duel between two audio heavy contenders. 
Cant’t wait to read your results.
WC , no they won’t be missed. Usually the  gear you miss you buy again... time will tell the truth about those 3 pieces.
Vivid birthday
Vivid birthday
Come and make my day

Vivid bithday
Vivid birthday
Resale could be nightmarey

Vivid birthday
Vivid birthday
Can’t wait to read your meh
I find old recordings like
Saxophone Colossus ( Sony Rollins)
Time out ( Brubeck)
very useful to evaluate a system. There is a lot of instruments going on those which I can evaluate... drums , cymbals,...

And to evaluate the reproduction of voice, I use Anne Bisson Blue Mind. Very well recorded, and known among audiophiles. There is also drums in this, along with some nicely recorded piano.

For ambiance mico details and piano, I use Tord Gustavsen. Good double bass to evluate also. African Magic from Abdullah Ibrahim is a HUGE piano live recording with double bass and drum, I urge you guys to get this one eyes closed and thank me later. :)
About the speakers. Kef makes the Uni-Q driver, and a lot of audiophiles swear by that design in the Blade 2. Coherent point source philosophy.

On the other side, Vivid makes 4 way speakers like the G2 and they swear by that design. More driver philosophy.

Both are opposite designs.... Somebody has got to do something right and the other something wrong...?? They can’t be both right in their approach.....

I sometime feel we are being framed by a lot of speaker makers, the thing is it is very difficult to know the ultimate truth behind the curtain...


Vivid birthday, Vivid birthday
When will we read your reviewey?

Vivid birthday, Vivid birthday
If they re connected surely soon yeah!
Maybe there was a problem with the speakers and he is trying to get a return. Maybe he did not received them yet because delivery was delayed or he wasnt home to accept shipment.

Maybe he took a little vacation week end for his birthday and his wife said no forum typing please for a couple of days.

Maybe something I or someone wrote frustrated him. ( hope not)


WC I am myself considering the Sopra 2 to replace my current set of Verity Audio. So I look forward to read you if you get the Sopra 3, and how they compare to the best you’ve heard so far. Are they bright, or a little  thin in the mirange like the older Focals..., etc.
I had a feeling there was something about the Vivid WC would not like. Why, I don’t know it was just that they are apart from the sound philosophy speakers he got before those. Hoping we will know more about the reasons they just passed , in the near future...
mikepaul , agreed the orange ones really sound the best.

Second best are the white ones. 

;)
WC, if the Vivid G1 are the best speakers you eard except that they don’t fit your room. Why don’t you just get smaller Vivid G3 or G4 ??

I beleive I already know the answer, there are some other things you don’t like about the G1 you do not wish to share on this thread. I understand this, perfectly normal for reasons that are your business only. We, experienced audiogoners, can read between the lines. We well know that someone experienced like you absolutely won’t make the mistake of buying overloading speakers...it is not rocket science...its room size vs speakers size... surely your conections will give you that information before you buy... also dealers are supposed to know that...it is the reason we pay them huge markup... to guide us in selecting  the right 30k or 60k speaker to fit the environment in which it will be playing and getting us satisfaction.
Good idea ysound.

Find you a pair of preowned Q5 at a price you will feel good about. They will work now , and most probably in your future room also. When the room is done, you ll have option to sell or keep depending on your goal of the moment

nebob, I think even if the G2 fits his present room, WC will not want to keep them in his future bigger room...because the G1 would  be the better speaker for that new room.
´´To sum it up, on bass, dynamics, presence, stage size Wilson Maxx2 wins. On crystal midrange, resolution, tranparency, high fidelity, focus, Magico S5 mkii wins.´´

Quoted from the net. I think this is spot on what WC will be experiencing.



Is the Sasha 2 really in a higher league than the Sopra 3 ? This is a much interesting question and I can’t wait to read WC comments about it !

Sopra , Kanta, Magico A3, Dynaudio Contour 60, B&W 803d3, Revel 228Be.

These are the ´´new kids on the block’´, and the big question is always...do they really bring new benchmarks for the money compared to the classic top performers out there.
I think the midrange should be thicker on the Magicos, thiner on the Focals because their very light cone material ( foam sandwich with fiberglass) have always had that sound signature ( supposed to better and richer with the latest designs...Sopra, Kanta, etc.)

I believe the Focals will have more boogie factor , more midrange snap and speed...snare drums twacks should need less power from the amp for the same volume level than the Magico.

I think detail and refinement should be in favor of Magico.

Bass should be more tuneful on the Magico, sealed design + woofer cone material.

I think the Magicos will be easier to set up speakers than Focal. Sealed design, smoother highs...a speaker that behaves better.

The Focal are more extreme...highs...bass...ported design.
WC already knows that shadorne. He just wants to experience it. To know if the Focal or Magico can compete with the G1. To know which  of those two is the best in his room. And we, his followers, are looking forward to read his conclusions.

Why, because most of us don’t  trust reviews of magazines, and most don’t have the connexions or the means to be able to bring all this gear into our rooms to make those tests.
You are very disciplined. I could not resist trying them. There is so much positive stuff written about Sopras I would like to experience on my system.
Agreed, Sopra 3 are a must try. Because being blown away by the Magicos does not mean you will not be blown away by the Focals even further.
Lets be honest for the sake of everybody here.

The one someone sells is never the one to get. People sell inferior stuff to get superior stuff. The reason you can sell is that your inferior is someone else superior. In this case it’s relative holy grail exchange.

But for ultimate purists like me who are tired to sell and resale, we search for the first best. It is the reason we keep returning to this thread.

Is WC biased when resaling? Sure he is l like everybody else that wants to get money back to buy something else.

So I read between the lines.
I will never buy Sashas2 or Vivid G1, because you got rid of them. I will never buy the one you sale between the Sopra 3 and the Magico. I will get the pair you keep. Because I know this thread has always been about the best amp , the best dac, and the best speakers. 
WC, sure it is not exact science. The more the waiting, the more the odds of getting one of the cream of the crop. One day will come when this thread will end, as every good thing has an end. Life has to go on.

In the meantime I did pretty well. I got the amp you bought 4 times, the 900u. So I hit the nail on his one. I can do the same with drivers. Let us enjoy the ride until a definitive trend shows up in the speakers department. You re the driver, I sit in the back admiring the view.

@thezaks `` The one someone sells is never the one to get``.

This statement is true but in an idealistic world, which almost never really applies in everybody `s ( normal guy) audio world.

As I wrote, one s inferior will be someone else superior...so this is why things work out in the audio market cycle.

Can`t wait to read you tomorrow, to know how the Magicos compare to your memory of the Sashas 2 and Vivid G1.

Take your time to compare with what you already know, before opening the Focals if you ever decide to open them. Too much new information in testing 2 different pairs you don't know could be misguiding.

Tell us more about the Magico pleeeaaase. :)

Seems that sealed design fits your room well so far. Do you lack bass compared to your memory of the Sashas 2 ? Are they as dynamic as the Wilson, or more tempered ( need to crank up the volume to get them singing ?)

Sound as refined as the Vivid G1, more or less resolution or equal ?

Would you say the Magicos have quick and ’’snappy midrange’’. Or are more on the controlled and damped side of things ? I ask this because I’m curious about their carbon/graphene midrange...having not eard it yet.

(I know that Focals are very quick and snappy speakers, a bit like Kudos and PMC...very rythmic drivers). B&W kevlar drivers are slower and more damped , they are less alive and need higher volume level to express themselves.

Remember if you sale them you have to write if the box were opened or not , that difference plays a lot in the asking price. I’m 90% sure you will listen to them, so I ´ll assume the Magicos are better.

Always better to play transparency, like you always did. You’ll always win in th end this way.
The Ref 10 pre or the Lux C900u may save the day coupled to a Emotiva last gen. But still it should never be as good as with a sota amp.

@dguitarnut

Q3 don't outperform S5 mkii on the contrary..., I would take the S5mkii all day over the Q3. On whatsbestforum, they say the same exact  thing, even some who have heard the Ultimates prefer the S5mkii.

Sure someone who owns older Q3 will try to convinced himself that they are better , a way of getting rid of buyer's remorse.

WC, so cool you opened the Sopras ! I take back what I said earlier. You are the man.
I never thought I ´d say this but you could try the Krell  700cx with the Magico, to see if that old brute of an amp can wake them up more.
WC, if I lived in Florida we could do a deal as I would buy from you the pair you will get rid of between the 2. I could throw my Lux M900u in the deal if you ever wanted to own it again with your future gear.

I don t like shipping those heavy jewels far away.
I would not touch the Neoliths. How can those big panels play the highs as good as the diamond coated beryllium Magico tweeters... Made by scanspeak, those are definitely sota, along with Focals Be and B&W diamonds.
I would take a pair of Focal Scala Evo well before the Neoliths, and save 40k.
100% agree with you sciencecop. Add to that ,the signal from the amplifier to electrostatics has to go through more electronics. Less is more and best multiway designs today have minimalistic crossovers with very advanced optimised drivers.
WC, I’m 99% sure you will be disappointed by the Neoliths. Your expectations are just too high, specially after having experienced speakers like Magico S5 mkii or Vivid G1 that have already been compared to electrostatics and nobody found the kind of difference in favor of the latter your are wishing for. Different yes, but leagues better ? Never happening.
I do beleive that electrostatic are like plasma TVs a couple years ago. A lot of purists didn’t beleive it was doomed compared to LED and OLED. Simpler, thiner and lighter, less energy consumption, those aspects and others have contributed to the death of plasma. Duhh it was supposed to be so much better they were saying...lol 

Same story will be told with electrostatics in the near furture. Mark this post and date. I did the same in the past on AVS forum about plasma panels, and I was right all the way.
Talking in absolute on 2108 sota hifi is always a warning sigh for me. Electrostatics have their fans. But that kind of cheerleading just has not its place in this kind of thread.

So to the electrostatics fanboys, please stop cheerleading that the Neoliths will be a complete other world compared to S5mkii or Vivid G1. WC has seen numerous electrostatics passed into his room , Neoliths will suffer the same fate....they should come and pass like the other panels he once had. Expectations should be moderate, specially at this level.

``A 80k speaker should sound better than a 40k speaker``.

I totally disagree, at those levels it`s only différences never superiority.

@grey9hound Very good point about the Mac 601s. Not only they are still there, but they also permitted WC to experience the Magico `s transparency and everything he wrote about them... They also permitted him to pinpoint the différences and choose between the Sopra 3 and the S5mkii. As he wrote, the Magico lets you ear every tweak or change in the system...and that was done with the amplifiers that woke them up...the McIntosh 601s !!!

Not bad for mid-fi amplifiers......

WC, we caught you in the act of ``mid-fi love``... lol ;)

@mauidj If you would ever pass by Montréal Canada, I could sell you my Luxman M900u at a very attractive price. ( just saying, I like changing gear often but I don`t like to ship a 100 lbs jewel like the M900u...always prefering local sale for that kind of gear but not many buyers here )
Hey guys who know Bryston well. Can it compete with the best out there like a Luxman M900u or a Ayre VXR , or the best PassLabs on sound quality, transparency...

Just asking because I never eard one before. A friend of mine told me it was not comparable. But you know sometimes audiophiles exagerate their love and don’t... So please objectively and truthfully, is everything there like the best amps or not , but just drier like they say ?
Regarding amplifiers and the S5 mkii. I’ m not a monoblock specialist, but I think there is a strong possibility that the Magico really don’t need more juice than what the 601s are giving to express themselves fully power wise.

According to the soundstage review,a single Simaudio 870A is absolutely enough. So me think the Magicos have that controlled sound signature that makes WC believe they can do more. Sometimes we audiophiles imagine things that are just not the reality...It happenened to me also. It is also what makes this hobby exciting....

But nevertheless, it will be interesting to read WC comments about the PassLabs 200.8 vs the McIntosh 601s.
WC, still, the 600 watts MC601s should be more than enough for the S5mkii. We are talking autoformer Mac power here, no slouch.
The 200 watts Pass will not make them sing louder chunkier. Different, yes, better resolution and midrange...maybe. But power wise, I believe you are chasing an illusion.

But nevertheless, differences between those will be worth noting and discussing.
So that graph says they compress around -3db in the highs at 95db.

I’m not enough of an audio specialist to know if its a bad thing or not. If the Magico tweeter is a bit hot, maybe it’s a good thing to have the highs diminished a bit at high spl.

Nevertheless, I would sell my grandma 👵 to have the chance to own speakers like those Magico...

(Don’t worry just kidding, both my grandmas have passed away so its not an option anymore 🤭, may they rest in peace).

On this sunny sunday morning, life is beautiful, this thread is wonderful, posters are great with good ideas even if opinions differ. Enjoy it guys, and dont take this hobby too seriously.
The differences between tweeters WC ears may well be the crossover points. Focal and Dynaudio crosses their tweeter in the low 2000 hz. My guess is Magico crosses theirs higher ( maybe not as high as B&W who crosses at around 4000 hz).

This has an effect on how we perceive the highs in the presence region. If the midrange driver from magico is better at playing higher than the Focal midrange driver, this may explain why they sound more refined in the highs. Crossovers slopes can also be of influence.

Does someone know whats the crossover points of the Magicos ? They don’t publish that spec online it seems.
They should give more brute force and impact than a pair of Lux M900u. Ideal for very demanding speakers. But sound quality wise, the Lux should be their equal. The M900u have crazy midrange magic, and the soundstage is cavernous. Add to that the build quality and parts...crazy craftmanship. 

So at 24 k used for a pair of Lux, compared to double that for the Dag, imho the Lux are a bargain. But if you have very demanding speakers , you may need the power of the Dag.