@WCSS
Around a year ago we had a heated discussion about the 'rule of thumb' that states 50% of total money spent on a system should be spent on speakers.....you were in favor of that rule and I was not. In the last year with your system consisting of an Aurender / dCS front end, Audio Research ref 6&10 and Luxman preamps, amps....(insert amp name here) and Nordost Odin cables. Just wondering if you still feel the same way? I am completely aware that a fantastic system can be built using that rule.....just not the kind you've been listening to lately.
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Hmmm....room corrected bass might be the best bass you've had in your new room. At what frequency does the bass cross over to the panels?
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whitecamaross,
Do you still have the Sim 740p to try with the 860a? Curious to know how that pair sounds with your Salon 2's or the PL 500's.
That combo with a really good single malt scotch whiskey is all you need! |
I think the black system would be great for evaluating speakers but you are reviewing amps so I say keep the Ref 10 and a couple different types of speakers and review amps. I like the idea that maplegrovemusic had of throwing in a lesser priced amp now and again...that would be very informative for audiophiles on a budget. Also I know this is a solid state amp thread but to review a tube amp now and then would but fun to hear how they compare to the solid state amps you reviewed.
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I have read the entire thread....I’m just saying every 10-15 solid state amps reviewed throw in a tube amp. |
@thieliste
Thank you for expanding on what you heard. The Mephisto sounds like one very special amp....still like to hear the Essence. I wonder how the Essence compares to the now discontinued Colosseum? Jay, I know you don't like to comment on something without firsthand knowledge but have you heard comparison talk between the two?
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Thx riaa, I will check it out |
@keithr
"I agree that speakers are by far the dominant source for good sound, coupled appropriately to the room with the correct amplifier driving them (ie. not SETs on MLs). The people who spend 10s of thousands on cables, power cords, and tweaks to drive a 20k pair of speakers have it backwards. The mega-$ cables are for people who have mega speakers already. Most cables and power cords are just parametric tone controls anyways."
I do respect your opinion and even though the OP 'Agreed' with your statement it is not what he has been doing for the last year. The Wilson DAW retails for $37,900. The Focal Scala EVO retails for $51,990. If you add up the retail costs of JUST the Nordost cables (parametric tone controls) he has been using, those alone far exceed the cost of each speaker. And the latest thing I heard the OP say was that he was going to save and look for a deal on Nordost Odin2 speaker cables which are more $ than Odin1 speaker cables.....'anyways'.
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So it took 2 Hegel H 30's (15k each) to best the Bel Canto Black system....I wonder how 2 Simaudio 860a's (15k each) would fair? |
This amp thread just got too big league for me! |
Not going anywhere...I just get more excited reading about equipment I can afford. |
I think the OP has pretty much figured out what to buy and what not to at this point of his journey. |
pejorative a word expressing contempt or disapproval.
There....saved everyone the time. |
@mkwglyg Huh? I think you need to re-read it. |
So why move them so fast? What's next? |
I bought an amp from WCSS a while back and we have talked and emailed dozens of times. A few months ago when he was thinking of starting a youtube channel he ask me what I would like to see as far as him reviewing amps. I told him (and it applies here too) that I would like to see a more consistent review and keep the same components in the system, ie... same source, 2 different sounding preamps, 2 sets of speakers (maybe an electrostatic and typical dynamic loudspeaker) same cables etc... I also said I would like to see him throw in a budget amp and a tube amp once and a while. Also take more time to review amps...like a month. Do more of a thorough review and explain in detail how the amp sounded with a tubed preamp vs a SS preamp, what speaker the amp liked more, power, heat, does it sound good at all levels etc..... Well he completely ignored me! But that’s OK because it’s his thread and he’s doing it the way he wants to. Lately it seems like he’s been going through gear like a rich kid spending daddies money... lol. But again it’s his thread and that’s the way he’s gonna do it. If you don’t like it don’t read it. |
WCSS at 6'1" and 270 lbs I think YOU are too big for your room! |
Maybe you should change your name from whitecamaross to BigYukonXL |
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I use the DSP EQ in Roon to tame a 40hz bass peak along with ASC tube traps in my room. It is very transparent and doesn't seem to have any negative effects. |
Hey Happy Birthday WCSS! now....what to get a guy who has everything |
WCSS It's been my experience that using room correction because the speaker is too BIG for your room will be an uphill battle. I would recommend looking for a high quality smaller speaker. With your top tier electronics and a smallish room I think you will get the best SQ by matching the speaker to the room.... I use Roon's EQ to tame a 8db peak in the bass in my room because I have no choice but to place one of my speakers fairly close to a corner and because the speakers I have are ported through the bottom of the cabinet. I am now looking for a sealed cabinet designed speaker with the hopes I won't have to use any room correction. |
@grey9hound I use Roon's EQ. It allows you to manually EQ the frequency, Q and amount of attenuation. I have tried Audyssey (with my HT setup) but it is an automatic system which I hated. I only want to address the 1 or 2 frequencies (below 200hz) that my situation produces. I have heard nothing but good things about the Lyngdorf RoomPerfect system and I'm sure it sounds great but in my system I wanted to do as little to the signal as possible. I also wanted to keep the boxes and cables to a minimum.
@WCSS I think the Magico S5 mk2 is a better choice (for your room) and can't wait to hear what you think of them....maybe when you are done with them you can send them my way! |
I think this shootout will be decided on speaker design. The Magicos being a sealed design cabinet should integrate better in a small room. |
@ riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook.... no but WCSS could create a Virtual System on Agon that would show his room and his current set-up which would be kinda cool |
What about the Sim Moon 880M's? |
Believe me, I don't exaggerate.
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This used to be my favorite thread....now I quickly scroll through it. |
Don't think it's going to be about beating....more about preferences.
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@techno_dud Very supportive of you.....nice job. |
I stand by my statement made on 9/20/20 before the 10 audio myths video was released.
The last two videos sound very detailed and spacious but for me they lack body, warmth and richness. Going straight from dac to amp, specifically the Mephisto as good as it is, might be too much of a good thing.....not sure power cords or cables would be able to improve things. The D Agostino HD Preamp with the Mephisto and the VIP / Dragon HC cables into the Maggies I believe would be much better. I do realize the cost ratio of components and cables to speakers is ridiculous, just talking about tonal balance.
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@whitecamaross ...My Simaudio 870a sounds wonderful at low volumes, didn't the 860a you just sold also perform well at low levels?
I'd like to hear from the lucky Agoner who purchased it. How it is working in the system they have. |
I remember when this thread was really fun....now it's turned kinda vicious. |
@whitecamaross I think you have been informative, honest, creative and a fun read for 2 + years and it's not your fault that some people don't know how to control themselves. |
@whitecamaross I remember a while back you mentioning not to mix class A or A/B amps with class D amps in a HT setup so I called Classe Audio and spoke to a tech about it. He told me it would not be a problem in any way (timing/speed), in fact he said they do it all the time. I use a Simaudio 870a (class A/B) amp for my front L&R speakers and a Classe Amp 5 (class D) amp for center and surrounds and it sounds great....no timing/speed issues at all. |
lol...that sounds about right. Maybe that's why they had so many issues and had to be bought out.
So have you ever experimented mixing the 2 classes of amps in a HT setting? I first had a Classe CA 5100 (class A/B) amp driving my center and surround channels then switched to their Amp 5 (class D) amp and couldn't tell much difference. When used as a music amp (powering the front L & R channels) there was a big difference (the CA 5100 sounded way better) but for center and surround channels the Amp 5 integrates nicely with my Sim 870a. |
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Hey WCSS someone is looking for you on a new thread.
Enthusiast Audiophile Writer wanted
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Politicians and Women? To the best of my knowledge there are no women involved in this thread....well....until tomorrow |
@WCSS
I think I’ll hold on to my Sim 870a for a while longer. Just bought a pair of YG’s that sound wonderful with it. BTW how many times in the last year did you email me asking to either buy or trade for my amp? |
Yeah I could see that one coming a mile away! |
@ WCSS
I went from a Proac D30r to a YG Carmel 2. I felt I was getting too much speaker/room interaction from the floor ported Proac design. After reading your review of your Magico's I started looking at sealed cabinet designs. Magico and YG became my short list. The Carmel 2's are a little lean where my room produces too much bass (36-42hz). For me in my room with my electronics and musical tastes they are a perfect fit. Very detailed, highly refined and a massive soundstage. I think speaker/room interaction shot to the top of my list of importance for hi-end 2 channel listening. The Carmel 2's would be too small for you but the Hailey or the Sonja might work....for a few months.....lol.
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@viper6
In your 11/7 post you stated "Ported designs try to get more bass by having the port blow the air to the back wall for reinforcement, but one poster here says he hates ported designs."
Which poster are you referring to? |
Well yesterday I liked #2 amp better but today I preferred #1.....don't know if it was the addition of the Ref6 or what. Thx for the video. |
@ viber6
ron17,
I forgot the name of the poster who hates ports, but it was a few days and a few pages ago.
I checked a few days and a few pages ago and can't seem to find (as you stated) the poster on this thread who hates ports.
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@WCSS
Maybe you shouldn't post anymore first impressions....Some people get too worked up over them! lol |
@WCSS
My last 3 pairs of speakers were a ported design and because of room/placement constraints I've struggled with too much bass in the (36-42hz) region. I sold my Aurender music server and bought an Innuos Zenith mk2 SE so I could use Roon and the parametric EQ portion of Roon's DSP Engine. That worked fine but I really don't like having to use EQ in a 2 channel system (great for HT though). So I started searching for a speaker that would be a better fit for my room. When you wrote about your Magico's and your impressions of them I thought the sealed cab design and lack of low bass would be a better fit for me and my room. I found a great deal on the YG Carmel 2's (the smallest floorstander YG makes) which are 1, a sealed cab design and 2, flat down to 50hz, -5db @ 40hz and -10db @30hz. The YG's were lean in the exact areas my room produced too much bass .... a perfect fit for my room. I now have better tighter more defined bass and don't have to use EQ anymore. I find the YG's very detailed, highly refined and imaging and soundstage are crazy good (way better than my prior speakers).....One of my closest friends owns a hi-end audio store so I asked him to help me set-up the YG's. We spent 3 hours listening and moving them until they were nowhere near where I had them set-up. It pays to have a pro (especially with speakers) help with set-up. He wants me to listen for a couple of weeks before he comes back for a fine tuning......For me (so far) the best jump in SQ has been finding the best speaker for my room and musical tastes. I will probably be adjusting and tweaking cables etc... for the next few months...will update later.
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@WCSS If you use Roon with your music server it comes with EQ within their DSP engine. It's free, transparent, easy to use and all in the digital domain.....No need for a stand alone EQ. |
@WCSS No not with the YG’s but I used it with the Proac’s I had. With the Proac’s I attenuated by 8db @ 36 & 42hz which gave me a flatter response in the bottom end. In my experience I have found it’s best to use EQ as a last resort and sparingly. Set-up the speakers to get the best overall frequency response, soundstage, imaging etc... then use EQ as little as possible. Using the EQ in Roon requires you to measure your room first to see where the peaks are so you know where to set the filters, how much to attenuate and how wide to set the Q. I’m still getting use to the YG’s and might use Roon’s EQ with them in the future but I won’t have to use as much as I did with my Proac’s. |
@spinaker01 Great article on Roon by The Absolute Sound http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-roon-primer/Its interactive abilities, great sound and the ability to use EQ if you need it makes it a must have for me. I’m hoping it will work with the new music streaming service about to debut in the US (hopefully next month) called Qobuz. Similar to Tidal but with more Hi-Rez (24/96 & 24/192) files to choose from..they say over 2 million Hi-Rez titles! With a better jazz and classical selection than Tidal. |
