My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

viber6

A system that costs almost $1 million should sound lifelike for that guitar at 60-80 dB. If the listener is compelled to boost the SPL by another 10-20 dB, then the system has poor lifelike quality with inferior resolution, OR he wants to abuse himself like drinking too much alcohol.

Let’s give the Jay the benefit of the doubt and rule out alcohol abuse. What I think is happening is what Jay calls "clarity" is actually HF distortion he’s getting as a result of AC problems. Those were detailed earlier in the thread, where there was discussion of issues such as having his audio gear share a 240VAC line with welding equipment or a/c. Jay couldn’t evade the discussion quickly enough, and that’s understandable as he promotes his battery solution to AC problems. What’s unfortunate is that he could correct his AC issues and still promote the Stromtank batteries, but as he’s made clear, he needs to "pick and choose" his approach.

In what little Jay revealed about his AC lines, it’s interesting to note what he didn’t mention: Grounding.

All that HF distortion is why Jay fears hearing "too much clarity" and why he would benefit from having a pro evaluate his electric install, starting at the service panel.

mrdecibel

If I owned a 1mil system, I would expect " it " to hit peaks of over 100db. My system does it easily, and I never feel it is congested, too detailed, irritating....whatever. What Jay is describing, ime, and this will piss people here off.....is speaker compression

While I enjoy listening to intimate music, there’s nothing like the power of a full orchestra or rock band and, like you @mrdecibel, my system can reproduce most of that pretty effortlessly. It is an exciting experience.

Oftentimes there is more than one underlying cause of a system problem and you may be right that speaker compression is one of Jay’s problems. But it isn’t clear that those issues concern Jay at all. His recent focus seems to be on marketing the Stromtank battery products, but I think his efforts would be even more effective if he addressed these problems. And isn’t that part of the fun of hi-fi?

jays_audio_lab

I already told you - we don't see eye to eye.

Yup, though you've never explained yourself, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

Don't address me.

This is as open forum. If you have a complaint about me, take your complaint to the moderators. I

jays_audio_lab

 

It’s so clear to me that most folks on here aren’t interested in hearing from the "gurus" or "crusaders" who preach HARD ...

I don’t see anyone "preaching" here. What are the comments that you think "most folks" find objectionable? Why not bring your complaint to the moderators rather than lecture us?

Jay, you’re a dealer selling a $16K battery. You might want to consider looking at how some of the other dealers on A’gon conduct themselves, because that’s the kind of treatment I think "most folks" who are audiophiles expect. I don't think your silly claim that you're being "crucified" here is a sound business plan.

viber6

Factor X distortion from Jay’s AC power is the same for both videos and therefore cancels out, so the perceived differences are true.

Actually, you don’t know that. Power quality can vary considerably, from time of day, day of week, even minute-to-minute, depending on where you live and what your local grid looks like. Isn't that part of why Jay got into the $16K battery business in the first place? And of course, if that a/c or arc welder that’s on Jay’s audio circuit powers on, all bets are off.

With the Stromtank, his electrical power quality is likely better than yours.

Maybe. I have dedicated, derated lines and power conditioning and that works in my system. I think it’s cool how some are willing to go the battery route, but that’s not for me. I like the simplicity of getting relatively clean, stable AC power. Although I’ve gone to a lot of trouble to do that, it’s been much less expensive than buying a bank of $16K batteries.

In any event, this isn’t about whose system is "best," is it? That seems like a silly debate. Aren’t we all here to have fun?

viber6

... Jay had many power conditioners, but the Stromtank produced another world of benefits ...

Understood! What I find interesting to question is: What is the benefit of something like a $16K Stromtank battery as compared to a clean, stable, filtered AC line? I suspect the difference in that case is much less than it is for Jay with his problematic AC power.  (Let's set aside the fact that I don't think the battery would be sufficient to power even one of my amplifiers.)

Jay doesn't seem inclined to address his AC power issues, so we may never know the answer for sure.

kren0006

... cheering for Viber in this stupid argument  ...

For goodness sake, what aspect of this discussion do you find to be an "argument?" Why is it that asking questions, or raising concerns, is characterized as an "argument?"

This is becoming one of the most unusual threads on A'gon - and it's from a dealer who is presumably seeking to generate some sales. Truly strange!

Now these, below, are arguments, and even rise to the level of being argumentative. You'll never see any content from me like that. I'm here to talk about audio.

kren0006

When one hears ad infinitum that nobody really cares for the opinions they are presenting, yet they persist in repeating the same tired objections, it’s akin to an argument.

rbach

Why don't you do yourself and us a favor and move on.

rbach

These two remarks are what most of us, including the OP feel on this thread. Not argumentative at all.

Pretending you know "what most of us" feel and suggesting "Why don’t you do yourself and us a favor and move on" is argumentative. I understand that you don’t see it that way but the deletion of that post suggests the moderators don’t agree with you.

Why is it that we can't talk audio on this thread without provoking this sort of animosity?

rbach

I give up...you win.

No, we're all winners! Being fortunate enough to enjoy music however you choose makes you a winner, too!

jays_audio_lab

I have 5 dedicated outlets with 10 gauge wire and aftermarket outlets. 20a, 20a, 30a, 30a, 30a-220v.

Do you have 30A devices (receptacles) on those 30A lines? If so, when you test power cords, do you change the connectors to 30A plugs?

If you have 20A receptacles on the 30A lines, in many places you’d have a code violation and it’s a potential safety hazard. So that’s problematic.

That 30A 220V line is a real puzzle. Do you actually mean it’s 30A 240VAC? Is that a hardwired connection? If that’s not for an arc welder, dryer, or A/C, what’s it for?

As for some of the spurious noise that was detected in your videos (graphs were posted earlier in the thread) - have you hunted down the source? There were some speculations here that they originated in your AC lines.

viber6

it isn’t clear that Jay really has problematic AC power. I think Jay already answered your question.

The few details Jay mentioned about his AC power revealed some issues and he has dodged the topic since. It looks like he has an A/C unit or arc welder on his "dedicated lines," as well as some potential code violations. Perhaps it was those problems that led him to try the Stromtank, although addressing the AC issues is probably the less expensive solution. Of course, if he’s in a rental, he may not have any choice.

My Shunyata Denali conditioner yields a big improvement in every sonic parameter, and that’s without any work in my 1963 NYC apartment building. I will make a small $1-2K investment in the Amperetime battery and big Giandel inverter to see whether it is an improvement over my Denali.

That will be an interesting experiment!

jays_audio_lab

... buy thick wire and 20a breaker, Buy aftermarket outlet of choice, Find a dude on Angie’s list that does electrical work ... I believe my 6 year old can understand how to do the job too.

I’m sure you do believe that your six year old could install your dedicated lines. And that’s exactly how you’ve ended up with the AC problems that you have, including that funky 30A 220VAC line that your stereo shares with an arc welder or dryer or whatever. Is that hardwired, or cord-and-plug?

... make sure the outlets are in phase so there is no bass cancellation issues ...

Your six year old is mistaken about the bass cancellation thing. But hey - he’s only six!

It’s increasingly easy to see now how your AC issues led you to experiment with batteries as a "solution." They're really more of a workaround than a solution.

jays_audio_lab

I don’t know where this narrative is coming from about me having electrical issues ... So as far as i am concerned folks, most of us have absolutely no business in this hobby due to our terrible electrical system ...

Perhaps you are suffering short term memory loss. Earlier in this thread, another user analyzed your YT video and posted graphs showing it had spurious noises as well as what appeared to be AC harmonics. You were displeased (I’m being kind) and the details you then revealed about your AC power (which you insist even a six year old could have installed) only raised more questions, such as whether you have a 208VAC or 240VAC line that you are using to feed your 120VAC lines. (I know that sounds crazy, but that’s the information that was exchanged. ) A whole bunch of posts were deleted, including yours that contained threats, and Tammy popped into the thread with a gentle warning.

Did that refresh your memory?

It’s not difficult to see what’s happening here. You became a dealer for the Stromtank battery "solution" because you have AC problems. What doesn’t make sense is that you now refuse to acknowledge your journey’s path. Most odd, because much of the history is right in this thread.

As others have noted, it’s possible that you’re in a rental, so there may be little or nothing you can do about your AC issues. But pretending they don’t exist won’t make them go away, and you’ll have to deal them until you have Stromtanks sufficient to power your system.

Jay, installing proper dedicated AC lines isn’t rocket science but it isn’t for six year olds, either. If it’s an option for you, I encourage you to have an expert examine your AC power. He’ll tell you, among other things, why your 30A 120VAC lines are problematic, and he’ll have suggestions that could make a big difference in your system’s sound. The cost will be much less than even one of the small Stromtanks.

viber6

He completely renovated his garage to make a great listening room, created dedicated AC power lines and outlets.

Did he? What’s with that 208VAC or 240VAC line for the a/c or arc welder that he’s also using for his 120VAC outlets?

Even if he has AC problems, that’s the purpose of the Stromtank to clean it up.

Right. But from what I gather, the Stromtank he can afford isn’t sufficient to power an amplifier. So he is still stuck with his AC problems.

Meanwhile, Jay is in denial and acts as though he's never heard any of this before.

carey1110

As far as Mágico paying YouTubers I doubt that. By the time Jay produces this video I’d bet it has cost him quite a bit.

Using paid "social media influencers" on Youtube, Facebook, and other social media sites is exactly how a lot of advertising is done today. Jay probably does have costs associated with producing the videos, which makes it all the more likely that he's being paid. There's nothing wrong with that and Jay has made it clear that as a dealer, he's in this for profit.

What's the big deal? If Jay is doing these videos for free, he can just say so and I think most of us would be willing to take him at his word. But Jay has made it clear that he's a dealer working for profit. There's nothing disrespectful about noting that.

jays_audio_lab

I wish I could defend myself on here ...  I won’t embark on duking it out with anyone ... I have to let the moderators do their job

I've found the moderators here to be very fair and I think everyone here is free to defend themselves. There's no reason you should be subject to any attacks and you should feel free to correct any misstatement.

I'd be very surprised if the moderators were unwilling to delete any false statements made about you. You might have to alert them to the problem first, though.

jays_audio_lab

... mods delete posts that are about a specific person (me) and that aren’t true ...

Egg-zactly Jay, that’s the way it works. You got it wrong earlier in this thread when you argued the opposite:

Unfortunately don’t be surprised if it gets deleted because you are speaking the truth

I really don’t understand much of the angst in this thread, which is certainly unique on all of A’gon. While the many deleted posts make it hard to follow parts of the conversation, the ones that remain suffice to "connect the dots."

Nor do I understand the indignation that Jay, as a social media influencer, may be getting paid for his promotional videos. Personally, I hope Magico is paying him a fistful of dollars for all of his work! Shooting video is time consuming and editing video can especially be tedious. Jay has a loyal, dedicated fan base. Why should he deliver those eyeballs to Magico for free?

Jay has been perfectly transparent that he’s a dealer and has ambitions. He probably doesn’t think profit is a dirty word and neither do I, folks. It makes the world go ’round and I wish Jay nothing but the best.

Space aliens?

This thread gets weirder every day.

viber6

What you just said is only your opinion.  What counts are shootouts that people can hear for themselves ... Some semblance of disciplined scientific evaluations are the only valid method of drawing conclusions, even to yourself in your private listening.  What you do is present your opinions only ...

I think that's all you're going to get from Jay here. He's a showman. You'll need to ante up the $600/year subscription to get the whole "show" and "raw" videos.