Sorry you took it in the tukkus on this one, but thanks for the public service you provided. F them. Better and way more decent manufacturers than them went into Extinction.
My impressions of the much Hyped LAIV Harmony DAC (I ordered one and Listened to it.)
My System:
Speakers: Oris Orphean Horns with Klipschorn Bass Bins
Amps: Bi-Amped Korneff SET 45 Monoblock Clones on the Oris Horns with Dual MiniDSP 500 watts on the Bass Bins
Pre-Amp – Don Sach Model 2 (4) 6SN7 Tubes
Dacs – SMSL D400EX Vs. LAIV Harmony each fed by USB Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer
Short Story – I returned it.
Long Story – It was the Process and details of the return that I learned the most about the company. The past year there has been a lot of hype regarding the LAIV Dacs. ‘Best DAC under $5 Grand’ etc. etc. etc. So, I went to the LAIV website and looked over their Products. And I see this too ! They have
30 Day Returns !! --- So, yes I want to ‘Shop safe and Smart’ also.
Shop safe and smart with LAIV.
I was interested enough that I went to their return policy page to find what a ‘home audition’ would cost me. After all the Harmony was going to cost me $2675 (I got a $25 discount by joining their ‘club’) , so it better be special and not something that I had to ‘strain’ to hear a difference between my existing SMSL D400ex (a measly $1 Grand Dac). The below is from their web page regarding refunds.
Refunds
Upon arrival at our approved destination, your product will undergo a thorough inspection to ensure it remains in pristine condition with all original materials intact. The process typically within 5 to 10 business days.
Upon completion of the inspection, and assuming all criteria are met, we will promptly notify you of the receipt of your product and initiate the refund process. Please allow 7 to 10 days for the refund to reflect in your account. Kindly note that a restocking fee listed below will be deducted from the refund amount.
-
Harmony DAC - $200/unit
-
Harmony HP2A - $200/unit
-
Harmony GaNM - $250/pair
-
Harmony µDAC - $125/unit
-
Harmony µDDC - $125/unit
-
Harmony LExt - $100/unit
Additionally, All orders will be subject to an additional deduction of 4.5% of the order amount from the refund due to non-refundable payment platform fees.In the event that the return items do not meet our standards of mint condition, we will provide notification and advice regarding any open box fees, in addition to restocking fees, incurred due to damages.Furthermore, if you have incurred import taxes on your delivered products, the responsibility lies with you to claim a refund from the respective carrier (e.g., DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc.).We're committed to ensuring you're happy with your purchase. If you have any questions or concerns, please check out our terms and conditions or reach out to us. We're here to help!
So, I briefly scanned the page and saw that the Harmony Dac had a $200 restocking fee. So, that was
definitely at my upper limit of an audition. And $200 was on the high side, in my opinion. But I wanted the Dac and wanted to believe the hype, so I was hoping that I would think that the Dac was worth $2,675 to me, and I would not have to return it.
So, in listening to the LAIV for a few days, I could not discern a difference between my Cheapie $1 Grand SMSL D400ex and the LAIV Harmony. (So, yes, the Emperor has no clothes). I had both DACs plugged into my Preamp and had two Identical Streamers plugged into each Dac, playing in Sync the exact same Music. So, it was very easy to switch back and forth between Dacs and discern any differences. So I started the ‘return process’.
I contacted LAIV and receive the following response:
***********************************************************************************
“Please find the attached repacking and return guide and go through the guide to prepare the return units.
Just a friendly reminder to provide the following information as outlined in the guide!
1. A photo of the device showing the serial number clearly.
2. A photo of the device showing the top view and bottom view of the device.
3. A photo of the device box after packed.
4. A photo of the device box inside the shipping box.
5. A photo of the shipping box after seal up.
6. A photo of the complete package with the outer shipping box showing the serial number.
If all items are in mint condition, the expected total refund will be as follows:
$2,675 - $200 (Restocking fees) - $120 (4.5% Payment Platform fees) = $2,355
***********************************************************************************
So, oh F*ck, I missed the ‘extra’ $120 for god knows what reason! So, now the audition would cost me $320 – which I would have passed on if it was included in the restock fee next to the Harmony Dac. No way would I pay $320 for an audition. Maybe that’s why it wasn’t there (camouflaged, I’d say, - make up your own mind). Anyway they got me on that one. If this was shopping smart, why do I feel so stupid?
--- Not a bad profit, I’d say. They got $320 of pure profit, and they got their Dac back in ‘Mint’ condition. Maybe the return business is better than actually selling Dacs?
Then I notice the seven photos I’ll have to take (Never had to do this one before) and then I open the attached ‘repacking and return guide’. It’s 17 Fricken Pages! So, this Repacking and Return guide is written better and more complete than any user manual that I’ve ever seen. So, it dawns on me that this company is really planning on a lot of returns. This is part of their Business Plan! Now I really hate this company and vow to never do business with them again. Yup, they have made me an Enemy for Life by sneakingly hiding their total restock fee.
This is a Public Service announcement. If you are interested in LAIV products, and considering an audition, keep in mind their ‘return procedures’ and don’t forget to add another 4.5% to the restocking fee. *************** You’re Welcome! – You can’t download the repacking and return manual and I could not attach it to this post, as it was too large. But if you want a copy e-mail or message me and I’ll send you a copy.
- ...
- 69 posts total
Using the OP's evaluation, whom certainly has the experiences and is by this qualified to share their assessment of the End Sound Comparison. Using there assessment only, it does look like there is very good insight into how the Two DACs are to show differences, which in this evaluation nothing was discovered to separate the DAC when End Sound has been listened to using the USB option as the Signal Path. The OP stated " So, in listening to the LAIV for a few days, I could not discern a difference between my Cheapie $1 Grand SMSL D400ex and the LAIV Harmony. (So, yes, the Emperor has no clothes). I had both DACs plugged into my Preamp and had two Identical Streamers plugged into each Dac, playing in Sync the exact same Music. So, it was very easy to switch back and forth between Dacs and discern any differences. " Looking at the activity of @cutthroat over a long duration of membership, I don't see anything in the report but a genuine description of their experience had. I do not believe a steering towards the longer term owned DAC as a prompt to increase a interest in purchasing is their agenda. In a completely different Thread, a Post has been made where there is the statement " Perhaps a general warning is required - SOME OF WHAT YOU READ HERE OFFERED AS ADVICE IS ACTUALLY A SALES PITCH. " Again, I am of the belief this is not the agenda of the content supplied in this Thread. In a different Thread I recently stated: " Investigating alternate Brands or alternate methods to acquire a Product , where there is an intention to acquire a product that offers a particular function within the audio system. Will expose the Purchaser to products more than capable of being extremely impressive. Even as impressive or surpassing the impression where the option to Purchase is to remain Brand Loyal and upgrade within the Brand. " I would suggest the LAIV was not too sure of a Volume of sales for their Product, and erred on the side of caution, where pricing has been to cover low volume turnover, which was then to be a high mark up on the Retail Price. Individuals who buy into Products that are priced for the current markets with Low Volume Sales / High Mark Up, are Customers to be most effected by diminishing returns that comes with their choice made for a purchase. It cost the OP $320 to have this valuable lesson made known. I have done a short search of the Market and have seen the following used item prices, which in my case will be an Import to incur added shipping and a levy, SMSL D400ex @ £430 and the LAIV Harmony @ £1950. Looking at the OP's assessment and the current purchase prices that are able to be seen, it does look like a DAC stands out for being a DAC of interest for the individual with a constraining budget, or not wanting great cost associated to a DAC they intend to utilise. |
@gita Which i2s cable are you using? length? How did you choose? |
@audiostick Hello. I'm using a one meter length of HF-X-NCF by Furutech. I would have bought a shorter one if they'd made it. I chose it because every other cable in my system is Furutech and I trust them as a company and I like the "house sound." I do intend to try other I2S cables in the future. Maybe something by Wireworld. Not because I'm dissatisfied, but because I'm a curious audiophile who can't leave well enough alone. There are no longer any brick and mortar stores closer than an hour and half's drive, so "try before you buy" is not practical for me. I saw the Furutech mentioned favorably in a 6 Moons review, and also in a thread discussing painfully expensive, boutique cables that are probably intended for EM Labs, Mola Mola, or others in that price strata. |
... or buy used and sell what doesn’t work. Or, limit one’s purchase to those products available with return policies.The latter is my favored approach but it’s definitely limiting. When it came time to upgrade my transport, what seemed by far the best option for my price point was the Jay’s CDT2MK3. I'm not a gambler by nature but took a chance and it paid off. One's tolerance for risk is part of the game. You also need to understand your level of expertise. Some guys have the ability to make successful gear purchases based solely upon reviews or photos of component internals. And it seems most audio stores expect showroom demos will be sufficient for most buyers. I simply don’t have the expertise to leverage these strategies. Accordingly, I (99% of the time) depend upon at-home demos. |
- 69 posts total