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My impressions of the much Hyped LAIV Harmony DAC (I ordered one and Listened to it.)

My System:


Speakers: Oris Orphean Horns with Klipschorn Bass Bins

Amps: Bi-Amped Korneff SET 45 Monoblock Clones on the Oris Horns with Dual MiniDSP 500 watts on the Bass Bins

Pre-Amp – Don Sach Model 2 (4) 6SN7 Tubes

Dacs – SMSL D400EX Vs. LAIV Harmony each fed by USB Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer

Short Story – I returned it.

Long Story – It was the Process and details of the return that I learned the most about the company. The past year there has been a lot of hype regarding the LAIV Dacs. ‘Best DAC under $5 Grand’ etc. etc. etc. So, I went to the LAIV website and looked over their Products. And I see this too ! They have

30 Day Returns !! --- So, yes I want to ‘Shop safe and Smart’ also.

Shop safe and smart with LAIV.

I was interested enough that I went to their return policy page to find what a ‘home audition’ would cost me. After all the Harmony was going to cost me $2675 (I got a $25 discount by joining their ‘club’) , so it better be special and not something that I had to ‘strain’ to hear a difference between my existing SMSL D400ex (a measly $1 Grand Dac). The below is from their web page regarding refunds.

 

Refunds

 

Upon arrival at our approved destination, your product will undergo a thorough inspection to ensure it remains in pristine condition with all original materials intact. The process typically within 5 to 10 business days.

Upon completion of the inspection, and assuming all criteria are met, we will promptly notify you of the receipt of your product and initiate the refund process. Please allow 7 to 10 days for the refund to reflect in your account. Kindly note that a restocking fee listed below will be deducted from the refund amount.​

  1. Harmony DAC - $200/unit

  2. Harmony HP2A - $200/unit

  3. Harmony GaNM - $250/pair

  4. Harmony µDAC - $125/unit

  5. Harmony µDDC - $125/unit

  6. Harmony LExt - $100/unit 

Additionally, All orders will be subject to an additional deduction of 4.5% of the order amount from the refund due to non-refundable payment platform fees.In the event that the return items do not meet our standards of mint condition, we will provide notification and advice regarding any open box fees, in addition to restocking fees, incurred due to damages.​Furthermore, if you have incurred import taxes on your delivered products, the responsibility lies with you to claim a refund from the respective carrier (e.g., DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc.).We're committed to ensuring you're happy with your purchase. If you have any questions or concerns, please check out our terms and conditions or reach out to us. We're here to help!

 

So, I briefly scanned the page and saw that the Harmony Dac had a $200 restocking fee. So, that was

definitely at my upper limit of an audition. And $200 was on the high side, in my opinion. But I wanted the Dac and wanted to believe the hype, so I was hoping that I would think that the Dac was worth $2,675 to me, and I would not have to return it.

So, in listening to the LAIV for a few days, I could not discern a difference between my Cheapie $1 Grand SMSL D400ex and the LAIV Harmony. (So, yes, the Emperor has no clothes). I had both DACs plugged into my Preamp and had two Identical Streamers plugged into each Dac, playing in Sync the exact same Music. So, it was very easy to switch back and forth between Dacs and discern any differences. So I started the ‘return process’.

I contacted LAIV and receive the following response:

***********************************************************************************

“Please find the attached repacking and return guide and go through the guide to prepare the return units.

Just a friendly reminder to provide the following information as outlined in the guide!
1. A photo of the device showing the serial number clearly.
2. A photo of the device showing the top view and bottom view of the device.
3. A photo of the device box after packed.
4. A photo of the device box inside the shipping box.
5. A photo of the shipping box after seal up.
6. A photo of the complete package with the outer shipping box showing the serial number.

If all items are in mint condition, the expected total refund will be as follows:

$2,675 - $200 (Restocking fees) - $120 (4.5% Payment Platform fees) = $2,355

***********************************************************************************

So, oh F*ck, I missed the ‘extra’ $120 for god knows what reason! So, now the audition would cost me $320 – which I would have passed on if it was included in the restock fee next to the Harmony Dac. No way would I pay $320 for an audition. Maybe that’s why it wasn’t there (camouflaged, I’d say, - make up your own mind). Anyway they got me on that one. If this was shopping smart, why do I feel so stupid?

 

--- Not a bad profit, I’d say. They got $320 of pure profit, and they got their Dac back in ‘Mint’ condition. Maybe the return business is better than actually selling Dacs?

 

Then I notice the seven photos I’ll have to take (Never had to do this one before) and then I open the attached ‘repacking and return guide’. It’s 17 Fricken Pages! So, this Repacking and Return guide is written better and more complete than any user manual that I’ve ever seen. So, it dawns on me that this company is really planning on a lot of returns. This is part of their Business Plan! Now I really hate this company and vow to never do business with them again. Yup, they have made me an Enemy for Life by sneakingly hiding their total restock fee.

 

This is a Public Service announcement. If you are interested in LAIV products, and considering an audition, keep in mind their ‘return procedures’ and don’t forget to add another 4.5% to the restocking fee. *************** You’re Welcome! – You can’t download the repacking and return manual and I could not attach it to this post, as it was too large. But if you want a copy e-mail or message me and I’ll send you a copy.

cutthroat
pindac's avatar
pindac
3,261 posts
 

It seems if a individual has the interest and funds available, that a Comparison can be done similar to the one undertaken in this Thread.

My suggestion only really counts if an individual has a want to compare the same two DAC's and if the option to create the comparison demo's  are needing 2 x New Models, being the SMSL D400EX Vs LAIV Harmony.

The suggestion in my view is only worth pursuing if the Vendor is willing to give a little wriggle room on their products. 

SMSL can be contacted to see if a Refurb Model is available at their 20% reduction in price. With the added attempt to have added monies deducted from the asking price, under the guise the Item is to be trialled and sold on if not wanted.

LAIV can be contacted to attempt to have the return monies deducted from the asking price, under the guise the Item is to be trialled and sold on if not wanted.

If both Companies can be convinced to accommodate the requests made for a price reduction. This should create a situation where a resale of a very very lightly used product, will be attractive to a Customer and not prove too difficult to realise close to 95% remuneration. A loss of approx' $180 is looking to be realistic to the Buyer doing trials if they choose to sell on the Products immediately following the trials with both Companies Models. 

As for the reports in this Thread, it does not seem out of the ordinary, that a $1K  DAC has stood its ground will in a comparison to a DAC costing 100% more.

My experience of commercial venture audio electronics is that in certain pricing structures for the broad market, Items costing under $1K will share many similar Traits that are detectable in the End Sound - Items costing under $1K+ - $4K will share many similar Traits  that are detectable in the End Sound - Items costing under $5K+ - $10K will start to become separated in being discernible for their unique Traits, and the difference are ones that are detectable in the End Sound, this is where the Buyer has choice on End Sound that is able to be produced.

Words are far from adequate as a description of the End Sound being produced, the experience of such a device in use is critical to the Buyer to ensure they are not uncomfortable with what is able to be noticed during the demo'. 

If the lower end of the pricing for DAC's are where one focuses and Models are being looked at, the New Model from Topping may be with Tech, that puts it up above the usual considerations.     

larsman's avatar
larsman
2,524 posts
 

@campoly - I saw another YT review where the reviewer was moaning about the spiked feet, but he liked everything else about it. 

campoly's avatar
campoly
100 posts
 

@larsman- It would have been better if they had used 4 with one in each corner instead of 3. It can get a tippy. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me. I don’t believe the spikes make any difference for SQ. Maybe they were designed in for the “cool” factor. cool 

larsman's avatar
larsman
2,524 posts
 

@campoly - isn't it weird how with audio devices, some have 4 feet and some have 3 feet? All about stability, but I don't know how it works.... 

campoly's avatar
campoly
100 posts
 

@larsman - yeah, now that you mention it, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any other audio components with 3 feet. Speaking of stability (or lack thereof), Laiv components have 3 brass clad indentions on top of the units so that their other spike footed components can be stacked. Audio component jenga! 

Did you get a new DAC? I think I read that you were looking at Hegel or was that someone else.  

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