"without sounding forced" was an added phrase to describe musical flow that a friend used when he was describing the sound of his new speakers paired with an amp we were reviewing in common. Once I heard my amp with his speakers all the sudden "musical flow" made more sense. Effortless, musical, all there now...
My experience with the First Watt F7
I think that many of us have a mental list of components and speakers we would like to try if circumstances and finances allow, and I'm no different. My finances are more limited than many members, but within my means I have been able to try quite a few different things over the years.
About six weeks ago I saw an ad for an F7 in great condition and having efficient speakers, it had been on my wish list to try not only because it was made for speakers just like mine, but also because I had never read a negative review of it or any of the other First Watt amps.
I want to say here that I have a lot of respect for Nelson Pass as a innovative designer and a businessman, and I once had a very positive experience with Pass Labs on a service issue. The reason that I am writing this brief review is because one member who knew that I had bought it had requested my impressions, and I am also curious to know the impressions and experiences of others here who may have owned this amp.
When I first received it, I gave ir a couple of hours to warm up. I sat down to listen, and initial impressions were good, but not great. There was good clarity in the mids and treble region, and stage width was very good but not better than what I was accustomed to. I noticed two negatives on the second day. The first was that the perceived size of instrumental images, for instance Stan Getz's sax, were 15-20% smaller. That wasn't a deal breaker, just an observation. I also noted that the timbre/tone of the sax, as well as other wind instruments and strings was not as natural sounding as I am used to.
Three days in, I was listening from the next room while working, and by now I knew that there was something else about the presentation that was more serious that was bothering me. I stopped what I was doing and put on a couple of specific songs to test a hunch, and that is when I identified the problem. The amp had no "flow", and even though individual instruments were well separated and clear sounding, nothing hung together like a real group playing together. Each instrument sounded like a separate event that didn't relate to the others. I had never had this experience before, but once I identified it, I couldn't "unhear" it. I also noticed at that time that electric guitars sounded different and less authentic than they had on other tube and solid state amps I have owned.
Finally, and this was surprising, the bass was noticeably opaque and lacking detail. I sat there in front of it listening one day, and I thought that if I was young again, and new to audio, this would probably be an amp that would impress me.
I sold it within two weeks, confident that it was not the amp for me, but grateful that I had the opportunity to try one for myself.
I would like to hear the experiences of others familiar with the F7.
Showing 7 responses by decooney
@roxy54 I tried and resold a special edition amp a year ago that many raved about in their system yet it was nothing special in my setup. Was glad to pass it along for someone else to give it a go hoping for them they could find some kind of synergy. | ||||||||||||||
@roxy54 thank you for sharing your experience. You may have saved me at least one more buy/try/resale situation. Coming from various mosfet ss amps over decades and moving over to all-tube many years ago, I wondered if I had missed out on the latest fw iterations following Nelson’s passion to continually try different output transistors and circuit designs. Each iteration sounding different from the last. A few colleagues I was paralleling my own tube amps with including SET, PP, and strapped triode stuff ended up trying the xa25 for a while. While they liked it, all of them ended up sticking with their tube monos. I keep my eye open for a good one in the 30-60w range to alternate in once in a while, but nothing really peaking interest any more after rotating a few myself. If you try others, please keep us in mind to post more, and keep up the good work. Thanks. | ||||||||||||||
Hey @wolf_garcia if you don’t mind me asking, which output tube set are you running in your Inspire to compare to the XA-25? The other reason I ask is I found my former DH Hot Rod Inspire with smallish transformers just not have the drive, sound stage, or presentation I was hoping for. Some of it speaker match related, yes. I still run one of Dennis’ former 98 preamps too, was part of my former Cary amp setups too, fwiw. Also a xa25 fan, and coda fan, and a few around me comparing FW and Pass lower watt amps on occasion. Being located right near both factories and have a bunch of pass friends around me, and with a dealer who’s carried both in the past - fun to compare. Wanted to keep trying tubes to see how close I could get to the sound you mention. Went a different direction with my tube mono blocks and super glad I did. Running the same tubes I had in my former Inspire, now in QS Mono 120s, its very nice. Against the status quo, my QS are tweaked up some with really good caps and better small signal/driver tubes. While not truly SET or strapped triode like Dennis did with his former PSE amps, I find these better for my own setup, more true to the sound, cleaner, better separation, more expansive, and when the stout transformers warm up for 60+ minutes, it’s good. Used the exact same type/model caps I had in some of the former amps too, in order to keep it closer for comparisons. Curious to know, have you ever had the chance to hear or try a pair of newer well-tubed Quicksilver tube monos with your aforementioned Hersey III, IVs? | ||||||||||||||
Reading this older 2016 Absolute Sound article on the F7 led me to believe proper speaker matching and cabling might be extra critical. Also its noted ensuring the correct speaker cables are used, or the damping factor of the amp can drop notably. Some other FW amps mentioned for reference of clarity vs. seductive warmth. Worth a read on the F7, and it might be the right amp for someone with the correct setup. Not unique to the F7, careful matching may be required.
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I wonder if there was an impedance mismatch issue or something else weird going on here with some preamps/amp combinations used. Looking at the different FW amps, most of the latest versions were at least 100k ohm input impedance. The F7 is 10k ohms. Comments anyone?
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Reading "lifeless" or "disconnected" sound type of comments and references come up once in a while in different amp threads, makes one wonder why. Solid state or tube. I was always curious wondering how this occurred for some, and not for others. Also, I remember trying an older simpleton preamp from the 70s that made the amps I used sound sort lifeless and un-engaging. Never quite figured out why until years after, while coming across threads similar to this one here. In most cases, eventual information surfacing about how there was a preamp < > amplifier impedance or input/output voltage mismatch, and/sometimes compounded further when a little bit lower efficiency speakers are involved too. When both scenarios are true at the same type, usually ties back to an unhappy listener selling off some gear, trying again. One sure can appreciate a good preamp and amp specifically designed and tested to go well together, followed by speakers that are well matched to a particular amplifier. Something I learned to appreciate more after lots of trial and error over the years, only to start looking closer at basic in/out specs and paying closer attention to how things actually sound and components interact with each other. |