My Demo results: I feel like I'm at a frustrating block in my speaker journey


Hi all,

New poster and longtime lurker. 

As the title says, I feel like I'm at a frustrating endpoint in my audio quest, and hoping to draw from your guys' experience for some direction.

I bought my first speaker system a couple years ago because at my old house my tv speakers were not cutting it. 

First I bought an old budget pair of Klipsche bookshelves (P15s?  I dont really remember)  They were really shrill, and I sold them fairly quickly. 

After reading a bunch of the mainstream audio review sites (I now understand these platforms are often pay to play) I purchased the ELAC Unifi UF5 Towers.  These had beautiful, lush musical bass but sounded about engaging as energetic as a sponge.  They also had kind of a dark muffled sound at times- like there is a wet blanket over them.   Paradoxically, they also sound inorganic and kind of metallic. 

In the past few months I decided to start demoing speakers to see what I like.  Ive found some speakers that do certain things right, but not everything right.  Every one of the high-end, expensive speakers I have tried have had certain large flaws. I've been kind of shocked at this whole experience, because to my ears my $60 set of logitec computer speakers handily beats a number of speakers 50x more expensive. Like, they dont have great detail retrieval or clarity but at least they dont color the sound a ton, and they present very engagingly.

Im still lookijng for my goldilocks speaker.

  • Various Kefs- very similar to the ELACs but worse imo- very metallic and unengaging
  • Various B&W- Metallic, boring, no dynamics
  • Warfedale Evo 4.4- nice highs!  Absolutely sloppy bass (for my room at least) and terribly muddy mids
  • Tannoy Revolution 6XTE- Similar to above.  Very, very dark speakers.
  • Martin Logan 35XTI bookshelves-  Eureka!  These are much more organic and clear.  Guitars actually sound like guitars instead of a bad digital rendering of them.  Theres energy in what I listen to.  This is what I was missing in the others... things sound like theyre supposed to!   Only issue is they arent as full-bodied as towers.  They just cant play very loud and I wish they had more bass to be better full range speakers.    Somewhat more minor issue is that they sound slightly grainy.  Though thats not a total dealbreaker. 
  • Martin Logan 60XTI Towers- I had high hopes for these.... but where did the magic for the 35s go ML?  These are very "meh".  The highs and satisfying acoustic resonances are gone.
  • Focal Aria 906 bookshelves- holy clarity batman!  But it sounds almost too clinical to the point that theyre not engaging.
  • Focal Aria 948 Towers-  Holy clarity and body batman!  These sound almost perfect- but they dont quite come alive until higher volumes (and I have a small space), and there's still something missing... a certain *zing* in the acoustic guitar resonances. 
  • Def Tech 9060- Hard to describe.  Sometimes they sounded good, sometimes they sounded imprecise and like the drivers were way too small.  Bass gets bloaty in my room.  Theyre also ugly as hell. 
  • Ascend Sierra Tower with RAAL-  After all the others, I had only tthe ML 35XTIs and the focal 948s remaining.  I was hoping, based on my extensive reading of forums, that the ascend towers could give the best of both worlds- the clarity/full body of the focals with the acoustic resonance/energy/zing of the MLs.  Unfortunately I was once again disappointed.  They seem unbalanced to my ears.  Like, they have very punchy bass but they color the sound to be sweet and there seems to be something missing in the middle of the sound.... some body that just isnt there.  The highs are very sweet and engaging, but almost a little artificially so.  Where the MLs sound like an actual acoustic guitar being played in front of me, the Sierras make it sound unnaturally sweet or high.  Theres unnaturally sweet zzzing out of string instruments that I dont think actually sound that way....  Im bummed because I really wanted to like these speakers. 


I think I've established a list of qualities Im looking for:
  • The etched sound of the MLs
  • Full body and clarity of the Focals
  • The forward, engaging nature of the ascends
  • Not overly smooth
  • Not metallic (I dont think I like aluminum tweeters)
  • wide horizontal dispersion (my room is wider than it is long)

Where do I go from here?  Im at a loss.  Id appreciate any recommendations you guys have. 

mjt8
I'm a late poster here, so forgive me if I'm repeating others.  I've found that allowing speakers (and all components for that matter) to break in makes a huge difference.  The difference in speakers is largely in bass, but in some speakers tweeters also smooth out with use.  Tannoys in my former listening room (a very lively one) were too bright--the opposite of dark.  I'm not sold on a single brand, but I have found Tannoy Revolution XT8Fs are incredibly flexible--tight and deep bass with good highs that accurately reflect their source (for better or worse).  I have now moved and my room is far less reflective; my Tannoy XT8Fs have settled in while also coming alive.  As I audition new components, they never fail to reveal differences--including that of breaking in new components!  I would not say they are the most involving--that honor goes to Sonus Faber Cremona Ms, though likely many others too.  Best of luck in your search--it's worth it!
1. Electronics need to match the speakers. In fact, the entire system, cables and all, needs to work together. But the ’wrong’ power or pre-amp and great sounding speakers will suck.
2. Once you've selected the speakers and electronics, the room makes a huge difference, size, shape, treatment, furniture, speaker location and sitting position, and bass traps are worth every nickel, particularly in a typical box of a room with standing wave issues. For example, too, speakers are likely happiest when a few feet from the back wall and at least a few of feet from the side walls.
2. I noted before seeing your budget, $3000, that there are three brands worth looking at, each quite different, but each stunning in their own way. (a) Wilson Audio (pick your range, a good used selection are around), (b) Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario or Stradaveri ((these will be used, the new models miss the point), though the gentle high end and overall warmth may be too much for your taste, I recommend they are worth a listen) and (c) as others have mentioned, Magnapan (pick your range, add subwoofer to taste). Maybe $3000 is not sufficient for your objective. I say this because you will need to improve your pre-amp and amplifier to match the speakers.

I’ve had the Sonus Faber, both models noted above - these speakers are like bringing the symphony orchestra home (or Van Halen, or Miles Davis, or really - anything you could pump through them) all musicians came home in that set up. At first I was using Audio Research Reference 210 monoblocks and LS-27 preamp for electronics. Since the fireworks of tubes giving up the ghost isn’t very family friendly, I’ve moved to the Audia Flight Strumento #4 v.2, with the Audio Research LS-27 preamp. I miss tubes, but the Audiaflight is stunning. 

I have the Marantz 8801 multimedia preamp (11.2 channels, balanced) and would use it only for AV, running it through the LS-27 for the front L/R. It's not really THAT good for music.

All this is to say, you have the right idea. Just keep at it. there has been a lot of good advice here.
It seems amazing to me that for a guy who is admittedly a neophyte in the stereo listening hobby you seem to be amazingly insightful into the shortcomings of an Andrew Jones designed pair of highly acclaimed Elac speakers. Hmmm...
After reading a couple dozen responses (not the full 100 or so responses) i note that you mention your variety of music tastes and that you have a Marantz 5014 A/V receiver.

Your audio system components make up a chain of sound reproduction, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. 

The Marantz is a good mid-range receiver. It's most notable characteristic is a smooth overall tonal quality. It's rhythmic timing is, however, bettered by other components including the Denon AVR-X3600H. The Denon is also more detailed which clearly implies partnering with speakers which have a refined treble character. 

If you only play in stereo there's an even better-sounding choice called the Cambridge Audio CXA81 amplifier. This one brings the music to life even better than the Denon and Marantz receivers.

Going back to the "chain" analogy please consider every link and how it enhances or detracts from the overall sound. For example, if your primary sound source for listening is .mp3 music cast from your smartphone via bluetooth to your receiver, then no amount of money spent on receiver or speakers will save the system because the music source is of low quality. As the old hi-fi saying goes, garbage in - garbage out. If, on the other hand, you primarily listen to 24-bit/192KHz streamed or downloaded music then you may certainly justify spending your money on good equipment.

So, the links in the chain are:
1. Music source - 24/192 FLAC or ALAC, 24/96 FLAC or ALAC, Vinyl, SACD, CD, .WAV, 320KB MP3 / 192KB MP3 / 128KB MP3, FM radio, Digital radio.
2. Player - Turntable, smartphone, FM tuner, PC / Laptop / Music server.
3. Transmission method - Good quality audio cables, Bluetooth, Wi-fi.
4. Amplifier/Receiver.
5. Speakers.
6. Room.
7. Your ears.

Consider optimizing links 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 before you finalize your speaker choice. I promise you will be happier with the overall results if you can attend to those links first.
 


Have your dealer set up a pair of Magneplaner speakers in YOUR ROOM and see if they work for you.

Cheers,

Richard