2. amps-preamps
  3. 129126-20344

My Audio Research experience

To all you goners out there, here is my experience with Audio Research.

Approximately four years ago I purchased an AR Reference 75 power amp.  It was on special at the time and I bought if from a dealer in Brisbane, Australia.

I used the amp for the rear channels of my home theatre system which I only use occasionally because I travel a lot for work and I mainly listen to music.

One night I switched the amp on and a white flash and burning smell came from the amplifier and it didn’t power up.  I thought it may have been a tube, and because I had no spares, I reported the problem to my Brisbane dealer and via email to Audio Research.  A copy of the reply sent from AR on the 5th March 2016 follows:

'Thank you for choosing Audio Research and the REF75. I suspect you had an internal tube arc. The internal tube short can also take out a plate or screen resistor. So just replacing the tube will not fix this problem. The resistors also need to be replaced. You can confirm this by checking the bias for this tube. If the bias reads zero, a resistor is open.  This is an easy repair that our distributor in Australia can do.

The SE update for the REF75 comes with a complete new set of tubes including a new set of KT150s.  This is the only way it is sold. If you so choose, Our Australian distributor can also install this SE upgrade for you while the amp is in for repair.'

I then proceeded to order some more tubes to see if a replacement tube would fix the problem.

I ordered the following tubes:

2 x Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold with Matched Triodes (Balanced)

4 x KT150 Power Vacuum Tube - [Matching (10+ tubes)]

4 x KT120 Power Vacuum Tubes - [Matching (10+ tubes)]

When they arrived, I tried the new tubes but they didn’t fix the problem as the amplifier failed to switch on.  I then contacted my dealer and freighted the amplifier to Brisbane for repair.  This was done in June of last year.  I included all of the above tubes in the package in case they were needed.  I also would have liked the amp to be upgraded to SE status using the tubes supplied if possible.

In September/October last year I enquired about the status of the repair and before Christmas enquired again. After again emailing AR, I was contacted by the Australian Distributor who told me that the service agent in Brisbane had been trying to get parts for the wrong amplifier and that the amplifier would be transported to Melbourne for repair.  I asked them to get me a price for the upgrade using my tubes.

In January/February of this year, I was contacted by the Australian Distributor and had to supply proof of purchase because there was a dispute over whether the amplifier was in fact under warranty when the fault occurred.  I again asked about getting the upgrade using the supplied tubes which were still with the repair agent in Brisbane.  Eventually I was told that I could have the upgrade using AR tubes only, for the heavily discounted price of $3,000 Australian.  Nothing like gouging your customers!!!!!!  Especially when I could have bought a small car for the original cost of the amplifier in Australia.

I chose to just get the original amplifier repaired under warranty which I was told needed a new main circuit board.  This week my amplifier finally arrived back home after nearly 12 months away for a repair under warranty.  The original tubes have been put in a box with ‘Faulty Old Tubes,’ written on the box.  The tubes I sent with the amplifier have not been returned, and no replacement tubes have been included.

I am amazed that the initial fault destroyed six tubes, so I have asked how the Distributor tested the tubes to determine that they were faulty.  I am now left with an amplifier that doesn’t work and 10 expensive vacuum tubes missing somewhere in Australia.  I am also left with a conundrum, if when I finally get my tubes back and use them to ensure the amplifier works, what happens if it doesn’t.  Will AR then blame me for any fault that occurs on power up because I haven’t purchased tubes from them at their heavily marked up prices????

For me I will never touch another Audio Research product for as long as I reside on this planet.  I will be telling all my audiophile friends and putting this report on every forum that will publish it.  Best of luck for the future Audio Research and may you drown in your policy mess!!!

thazeldean

Showing 5 responses by thom_at_galibier_design

thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
This Audio Research story is all too familiar and it both angers and saddens me - sad on behalf of the purchaser and angry because occurrences like this this scare customers away from vacuum tube electronics as well as esoteric audio in general.

Remember, that during WW-II, the military used vacuum tubes for their field communications. Circuit designs can be elegant, simple, functional and reliable if the designer so chooses and there are many purveyors of vacuum tube electronics who adopt this philosophy with no sonic penalties.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
Some sad anecdotes in this thread. Examples like these contribute to the “looks” audiophiles get from “normal” people – even those with equally passionate/extreme/expensive pursuits like wine, musical instrument, and vintage car collecting.

It’s very likely that the repair for the original poster’s amp requires $20.00 in parts (I’m being generous and assuming boutique parts) – the sort of repair such as a blown screen resistor that a competent guitar amp tech would bill an hours’ labor for. Let’s be generous and add another hour for ARC’s biasing procedure.

There are those in this thread who equivocate the maintenance costs with that of owning an exotic sports car. I consider this argument to be flawed. Periodic maintenance of a Ferrari is expensive. Maintaining an ARC amplifier is expensive. Therefore, all high performing amplifiers are complicated and expensive to maintain. Members of the club are suffering from confirmation bias.

I absolutely encourage audiophiles to understand their system architecture and how to maintain their gear. At issue here however, is that the industry (manufacturers/reviewers) treat these failure episodes as a rite of passage for audiophiles, as opposed to a component failure and potentially a design flaw. It's not an issue of an unsophisticated user.  Parts fail, and on occasion, a shorting tube can take out a component. I get that. I also get that in most cases, the repair is simple and straight-forward.

I am in no way singling out Audio Research or saying that you will not enjoy their electronics. I am however encouraging you to decouple the concept of “difficult care and feeding” from audio quality and musical enjoyment. You have options and can vote with your checkbook.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design

thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 

Thom wrote:

It’s very likely that the repair for the original poster’s amp requires $20.00 in parts (I’m being generous and assuming boutique parts)

jea48 wrote:

Hardly.

The Op stated a circuit board was replaced. If the board replaced was a channel board, list price for the board very well could be in the thousands of dollars. ARC cost alone of the board 50% to 60% of retail + overhead.

My bad!  I forgot we're talking about Audio Research.  They wouldn't dream of using turret board construction.  The products might run the risk of being maintainable decades from now.

Thom @ Galibier Design
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
This conversation is running a bit off the rails, but I’ll try to clarify my philosophy about vacuum tube circuit design and construction approaches before checking out. It’s only one man’s opinion …

Take a Thöress phono stage and an ARC phono stage to your most highly recommended tube amp technician and ask them which they’d prefer to service. One of these products will outlive its maker in terms of serviceability and the other one won’t.

One could argue that the product should always be serviced by the manufacturer – all well and good as long as they’re in business and in the same continent as you.

Of course, people will line up on both sides in terms of how they view their investment. I tend to think in terms of heirloom quality, but I think you knew that ;-)

In the linked photo, it may be difficult to make out the circuitry, but the Thöress is using tag strip construction - a close relative of turret board construction. The implementation is some of the most beautiful and robust I’ve ever seen. In the old days, this would have been called instrumentation grade. Much of this has been lost on us as circuit board construction has been adopted for cost savings and ease of manufacture by lower skilled, lower paid workers.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2013/highend2013_thoress.htm

There are plenty of discussions on the sonics of circuit board construction vs. vintage construction methods (point to point, turret board, and tag strip). There are subtle differences between point to point and the other two traditional techniques, but for the sake of this discussion, let’s think of all of them as “traditional”.

The key sonic discussion points center on the significance of the added capacitance in the circuit board (the fiberglass/epoxy). Some will argue that the added capacitance is insignificant, and others will take the opposite stance. The other frequent discussion point is that with a circuit board, you don’t get to choose your “wire” (the circuit board traces). Think about this, the next time you ponder a $2K interconnect.

From a maintenance perspective, if the manufacturer goes out of business and the circuit board blows up, you’re out of luck. Not so with traditional wiring techniques.

I have no way of reliably fact checking the two contradictory comments below, but even if ARC can service every product they’ve ever made, I want to point out that I’d recommend taking a product’s construction methods into consideration, as circuit board construction would compromise a company’s ability to service it.

cleeds wrote:

ARC will service almost every product it has ever made over its 40+ year history to original factory spec, or better. So it’s obvious its products are "maintainable." It is not at all clear what point you’re trying to make here.

perfectpathtech wrote:

Tonykay- I sold my Classic 120’s 3 years ago after owning them for 7
Like yourself saved a long time to buy a used pair. The same mono blew up 3 times! Dumped them as-is. Sad part is gent I sold them to couldn’t repair it, he sent it to ARC, and they said it was irreparable!

When Bill Johnson passed and the company sold, first thing they did was throw away their vast parts supply for all previous products! Mr Johnson has to be rolling in his grave!

Note that I have no commercial interest in either Thöress or ARC, but I use these two products as examples of two highly regarded companies who embrace polar opposite construction philosophies.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
Hi cleeds,

thom_mackris
Take a Thöress phono stage and an ARC phono stage to your most highly recommended tube amp technician and ask them which they’d prefer to service. One of these products will outlive its maker in terms of serviceability and the other one won’t.
@cleeds  wrote:

There’s really nothing to argue about here, because Audio Research products have already outlived their maker. ARC founder William Z. Johnson died six years ago, yet ARC will still service his SP-1 preamplifier, which was introduced in 1970.

The few ARC products that the company can’t fully support are CD players, where parts for the mechanisms are no longer available. All of its amplifiers and preamplifiers can be serviced to original factory spec, or better. Please feel free to verify this with ARC directly or any ARC authorized dealer.

ARC service is legendary. That’s part of the reason why the products retain their value on the used market so well.

Thom, I understand that you don’t care for electronics that rely on circuit boards, and you’re certainly entitled to your preference. But to extend that preference to conclude that ARC products aren’t serviceable flies in the face of the facts.

If this is true, then ARC is to be applauded for having circuit board inventory on hand for 40+ year old preamps.  As I mentioned above, I have no way of fact checking your comments which are in direct opposition to perfectpathtech's comments: 

perfectpathtech wrote:

Tonykay- I sold my Classic 120’s 3 years ago after owning them for 7
Like yourself saved a long time to buy a used pair. The same mono blew up 3 times! Dumped them as-is. Sad part is gent I sold them to couldn’t repair it, he sent it to ARC, and they said it was irreparable!

When Bill Johnson passed and the company sold, first thing they did was throw away their vast parts supply for all previous products! Mr Johnson has to be rolling in his grave!

What can't be debated is the availability of wire to repair for example, an 80 year old Western Electric amplifier.  I'm only advocating informed decision making during the purchase process, as we all get to vote with our checkbook. For me (obviously, others may differ), I'm a big fan of non-disposable technology where possible.  I don't like to see products rendered irreparable and in a landfill if at all possible.

I need to clarify my earlier comment regarding circuit board vs. traditional construction techniques in order to be fair about this.  Taking first world labor rates into consideration, I'd never expect a product retailing at $4,000 (for example) to employ these traditional techniques.  An example of a product using circuit boards which I heartily recommend is the Herron VTPH-2 phono stage.  It's an absolute steal at its price point (disclaimer:  I sell these phono stages, so take this comment for what it's worth).

Once a product surpasses the 5-figure price point, I think construction methods are one element of many which should be factored into the purchase decision.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design

More to discover