Move from my LS3/5A orig ownr to Harbeth which

Giantube,

I work for dc10 it does work this way! The woofer ports through the horn along with the tweeter.

Read more at: www.dc10audio.com

Regards,

Q

quad-man you are wrong. Its woofer does not work in this way.

Giantube,

First off you are Incorrect about the dc10audio Berlin.

And you bashing a design you know nothing about shows you're just another troll.

The woofer also ports through the horn thus increase its dynamics at the same time as the tweeter! You are correct about not being compression drivers ...they are not compression drivers and avoid the very common compression driver "honk" and colouration associated with compression drivers.

The LS3/5 comparison is relevant here as one of Europe's premiere audiophiles states:

from Warsaw, Poland
On the Berlin II mini monitor

I connected Berlin II with extraordinary Audio Note KEGONS Low Gain version monoblocks delivering 22W matched with Audio Note preamplifier M8, the 86dB efficiency of Rogers LS 3/5a that construction is rather adapted to push-pulls, do not really let listeners enjoy the outstanding SET monoblocks signed by Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note. Nonetheless, while the set Rogers-Rogers plays very well high and middle frequencies referentially, and mid-bass is reach (at least, according to the ear of English traditionalist), AudioNote-Berlin II set plays referentially and emotionally to the full extent of frequencies (the only limit is the size of a room – I have a living room with quite big capacity!). A combination of AN and Rogers LS 3/5a does not make any sense and Berlin II with Rogers shows clearly difference between SET and push-pull configuration. And as it is not to me to judge if apple is better than pear, Berlin II mini monitors are able (providing honest court proceedings) to resolve an eternal, audiophile conflict (SET or push-pull).

However, there is a continuation of this story. If I understood well, a clever and patented construction of dc10audio, and actually its outstanding designers, released the bass-reflex sound pressure through the gap around tweeter horn, thus creating a virtual, point source of sound. This is how they provided a listener with a coherent 3D sound-stage (assuming the use of excellently paired mono-blocks or very decent amplifier). Berlin II mini monitors are entry level of products range od dc10audio, yet the are dream speakers and for many audiophiles (because of financial reasons but also due to the performance price ratio) could be starting, or even the ultimate music platform, supported by a decent, similar in price, tube amplifier from one of the leading producers. Today, the music source dose not have to cost anything, thanks to excellent DACs, and music servers working with USB, Ethernet or FireWire, but also, optic S/PDIF. Thus, thanks to dc10audio, one can have truly audiophile system for less than 8000USD. It’s really a groundbreaking construction, and when I see a Berlin’s II brother – Berlin studio monitor I can only imagine how more rich and joyful their sound could be. I’m more than sure that this American niche company, being a herald of the finest traditions of American technology (in the world again dominated by the Chinese mediocrity), representing a truly American spirit, reflected in such a beautiful way in the names of the greatest spaceships in history: Columbia, Discovery, Challenger, Atlantis and Endeavor, will conquer European, Asian and American audiophiles’ minds.

The best summary of this little bit lengthy review would be the fact that, after a couple of months of experiencing and testing of Berlin II mini monitors produced by company dc10audio, I ordered, without hesitation, their flagship instrument – The Instrument, which will be in my possession maybe even this year, and I will surely describe all my small and those bigger ecstasies, describing specific music pieces which let them.

Horn loaded bookshelves such as dc10audio Berlin II are not well designed. The bottleneck of bookshelves is the woofer, not the tweeter. With such a small horn, the tweeter can only have crossover down to around 2,000+HZ. Its drivers inside the horns are not true compression drivers for horns. That's to say, such a design loses most benefits of horns but keeps undesirable features of horns such as directivity over 10,000HZ. What DC10 did is to put an ordinary tweeter inside a pretty wooden horn of primitive design. Having such a horn-like tweeter will make the high frequency more efficient but the bottleneck of woofer does not change.

Harbeth is a weird existence. In sonic aspect it needs a tube amp. In electronic aspect it is 4ohm and low sensitivity needs a Solid state amp. Just don't buy Harbeth LOL. It is a joke at that price point.

http://www.audioht.co.kr/atl/view.asp?a_id=3688

Thank you all for your thoughts, Its been many years since I've had my listening room ( had to give up to help aging parents) and now dusting off my equipment and redoing my room. The quads esl 63's, as well as the Rodgers have been very enjoyable, also have a pair of Martin Logan CLS (original. The quads developed a crackle in one speaker and was ready to take apart.. Turns out that running a dehumidifier in the room cured the problem, at least for the moment. Look foward to listening to other speakers that are musical for my classical vinyl and cd collection. Just got a Cambridge 752 and it is quite wonderful for cd's... Not very fussy but would like something as enjoyable as I have... Sometimes I switch to my D79 or D150 when I have help to move them!!

I had the 15ohm Rodgers LS35a as ell as the esl-63s. If you are looking for similar sound but more frequency extension, the Harbeths are a very good choice.
As you already have a large speaker (esl-63) I suggest that the Harbeth 40 is the model that would make a significant difference. Sonically the 30.1 is smaller; to put it simply, a concerto for string orch will sound slightly larger with yr 63 than with the 30...

BUT, both Harbeths need amplification I don't think you have at this moment. IIRC the Paoli mono's excel in high frequency reproduction -- but they don't have much power.
Try a Mahler 2 5 or 8 on the Harbeth 40 driven by any top quality, medium powered SS amp (100+W, or ~50W class A) and you will be pleasantly surprised I think.
I suggested a good SS amp as there are many more of these around and they are usually cheaper, than tubes...

Melida, thanks for the response. I was simply curious as someone who often thinks about changing from my vintage 15 ohm ls35a's to something different. But is different mo' better-lol

In other words im really curious to know how a good ture vintage ls35a would sound right next to the new harbeth, sterling V2 or even the kef's ls-50s.

While it would be a great service to a large amount of readers with smaller rooms (or second systems) none of the current audiophile "magazines" really has enough guts or to compare these head to head.

If you get a chance to listen to the harbeth's please let us know as a vintage owner what you think

I started on a pair of Spendor 3/5SE's and upgraded them to Harbeth M30's about two years ago. I drive them with a Cary SLI-80 integrated tube amp and use a REL T5 sub. This combination totally satisfies me (finally). I also listen to vinyl mostly and some digital as well. The M30s are the best speakers I have heard. I've compared them to other speakers selling as high as $15,000 and have not liked any of them in comparison to the M30s. I would not say they are over rated, but they are not for everyone. They are designed to reproduce sound as it was intended to sound and nothing more. Some people don't want music to sound that way. It's completely subjective so if your ears prefer an accurate and somewhat polite presentation (as mine do) then you should be very happy with the M30s. FWIW, I have not heard the 30.1s yet, but I have been so happy with my 30s that I do not feel the urge to upgrade. The 30s are available on the used market for less than $3000, which is a bargain IMO.

Thought I would try something different....Use older paoli SOB amps to drive with a paoli preamp....Sometimes switch to my esl-63's. The Rodgers are quite nice...look foward to hearing the Harbeths at an upcoming show

The 30.1's are quite overpriced in US, but others will opine "whatever the market will bear" or "..even at the price a bargain" - well la-de-da for them, most of us aren't professional reviewers or insiders who get a price break. Betcha in less than two years you'll find some here used at price that makes much more sense. Patience is not only a virtue but can save you a chunk of change as well.

With that size room I would go with the P3's. I have them and with the sealed woofer you don't have to worry about placement. I am still amazed of the sound they produce!

Just curious as an original ls35a owner as well. Why are you moving away towards a new harbeth?

You should try to listen to Tannoy Turnberry SE. It may be more expensive but it sounded sweet, detailed and not harsh at all. Typical british sounds just like harbeth.

Read the review comparing Rodgers to the dc10audio Berlin II mini www.dc10audio.com I have owned all tree speakers and the berlin is the best most efficient and they look great too!