More questions about dedicated lines


We are moving to a new house built in 2007  and I am fortunate enough to be able to move a wall to create a room with golden ratios. I will need to run some new electric and it gives me the opportunity to run dedicated lines.  I have spent countless hours rummaging through the 7k discussions on this topic and have a decent idea of what is needed.  My plans are to have four runs of Romex 10/2, one each for each monoblock VAC signature 200's, my digital, and my Audiokinesis swarm which has not be set up yet.  I estimate the runs to be conservatively 45 feet including up and down distances. All runs will be of equal length ending in SR  outlets. They will be separate from each other and all other lines and no metal staples will be used.  When I told him I my goal was to have the best sound he offered a suggestion that I hadn't come across in my electrical education here on the gon.  He suggested placing what sounded like a commercial power regenerator with a large battery bank as the first step out of the breaker box and running lines from this.  The other options were to run from a preexisting sub panel that has the pool pump and a few lights on it, but nothing else.  Third is straight out the breaker box.  He wanted to put the runs closest to the utility line in, stating that there will be less noise upstream than downstream, but this puts these lines next to a big double breaker (cant' remember what it is but is sure to be noisey).  He understands that I want all lines on the same phase, or line,leg.  My questions are: Of the three options, which would be best?  Is there anything else needed to minimize the risk of ground loop hum if I use separate hot, return, and gound for each line and not share ground neutrals and keep all lines separated from themselves and other lines.  If going through a subpanel with little on it, how do I manage to keep all runs on the same phase without unbalancing the breaker? A third tangential question-Is it best to use metal or plastic housing boxes for the receptacle? The question of durability of the plastic fatiguing and breaking following repeated plugging and unplugging has been mentioned but I didn't see an answer.  Finally, a huge thank you to jea and almarg for their voluminous responses in all the prior electrical discussions-I got an education.  Sadly, I still don't speak electricalese.
orthomead

Showing 11 responses by orthomead

Thanks for your input, Bob.  I am leaning in your direction and hope Jim and Al will chime in as well.  I'm assuming since you will use the same set up that you're happy with the sonics and haven't had ground loop issues.  How many lines did you run and what was the distance from the box to outlet if I may ask?
Firstly, thanks to everyone for their input.  I suspect this is one of those topics where there may be no perfect approach but the discussion of multiple paths may coalesce into a good solution for my system .
Al, the Elgar sounds awesome-too bad it is no longer produced and supported.  I suspect that the option of running off the main panel may be the best.  gdnrbob, I too am concerned about the pool running during listening times.  If we do run off the main panel, any thoughts about what order in the breaker box the lines should come.  First closest to the mains input with bigger utilities close by or at the end of the line?  Prior discussions seemed to favor distance from the bigger power consumers.

Millercarbon also raises a good point about multiple lines behaving like a big antenna.  All prior posts that I reviewed with single lines had no problems with noise, but not all with multiple lines had issues either.  If I do run multiple lines off the breaker and I do run into noise, I could always place every thing on one line as Millercarbon suggests.  The cost of running extra lines is minimal and it does give me a fail safe. Unfortunately, the electrician was a little nebulous about the actual product he had in mind for a battery bank.  I do like the idea and I will try to pin him down to a more specific and concrete item.  I am open to suggestions if you have them.
There seems to be no consensus on how many lines are necessary and at what point we reach overkill, or worse-more noise.  For spinaker and rodman- what components do you have on each line? Are you running subs on the same line as the main amps?
In terms of grounding, tecknik, my basic understanding is that all grounds have to be interconnected to meet code. My electrician did mention adding another ground though.
audiozenology-I am a little confused.  Do the outlets off the sub panel have a different wiring configuration? Or is it the shorter runs that make the improvement.  Some have suggested that additional connections may be more problematic.
Again, thank you so much for your input
audiozenology- Are some lines on a different phase or line,leg? If not, how did you balance the minipanel, or is that only necessary on the main breaker?  This is a point of confusion for me.  If the lines are on different phases to balance the mini panel, doesn't that compromise sound?
Thanks Jim, that puts me at ease.  Any thoughts on whether metal or plastic recepticle boxes are best? It sounds like plastic may be a better sonic choice but at the risk of being less durable.Audiozen-the light went on and I understand now. Thanks.Vair68robert-I devoured the article.  I thought the wall construction was fascinating and made a lot of sense.  I will be adding only one wall but will take some ideas for that without doing the whole shebang. I think I will just stick with the Romex 10/2-thanks.My electrician wanted to powow with some colleagues who do high end AV and is getting back to me.  Glad he is looking into all options too.  I'll post his ideas when I next talk to him.  Again, thanks everyone for your input
So if I am finally starting to understand, Audiozen, that by running a large gauge wire to a minipanel, all lines from the minipanel are on the same phase relative to the main box and main power and shorter multiple strands reduces the size of any antenna effect? Is the minipanel in a closet or out of direct sight.  I could do this with the closet that will be next to the wall where the outlets will be. And if I'm understanding Jea correctly, I flunk my Agon review.  Soo, for my purposes, if running multiple dedicated lines from the breaker to the outlets, 3 wire metal clad would be superior to Romex?  At least I'm totally clear that a deeper plastic outlet box is the way to go.  Benzman, in terms of no staples, my electrician would suspend the wires with two interconnected plastic ties, one of which suspend the wire, the second would be nailed to wood. Your room sounds awesome, by the way.  Please keep us updated. Thanks again everyone for your interest and help.
I think I'm getting somewhere here thanks to y'all.  Jim, the PowerPaper you referenced indicated that there were two sheathing options-aluminum or steel and the article further references the aluminum sheathed hospital grade cable.  Of these 3 options, what would you currently choose? Are all your components plugged directly into the wall or do you use a power strip and/or conditioner/regenerator?

Tribbles-I'm looking to have good sound and stay married.  My wife has given me a lot of leeway and I will be in the doghouse if I suggest we need to redo the pool electrical so my room will be better!  Thanks for an outside the box thought, though.
djones-my electrician had several thoughts and I'm trying to decide which will be best.  He didn't come out with a concrete plan and besides, all the prior postings I reviewed seemed conclusive that less than optimal outcomes are likely without the audiophile's input.
Jea and audiozen-I can't thank you enough for all the time and energy put into helping me.  I feel that I am on real solid ground and will be able to convey to the electrician the direction and details necessary.  BTW these two approaches were discussed as options when the electrician made a site visit more in theory, as in we could, but without any of the details.  You have provided those details and I thank you.  I will keep you all posted as this plays out.  Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.

Leon
Happy new year all! 

Dentdog-Which Equi-Tech wall unit did you use and how many lines did you run from it?  Pretty good sounds like that commercial "it's ok".
Leon

Hey Pinthrift.  I have purchased, but not yet installed SR Blue outlets.  I'm not decided yet on cover plates, but likely will choose a plastic cover plate and paste the inside with PPT total contact.Thanks for sharing your experience!!
Ok.  Drum roll please.  I met with the electricians yesterday and found them very receptive to the needs of an audiophile.  I reviewed the options discussed in this forum in detail.  All agreed that the best option was to run heavy gauge solid strand copper wire (4 awg) from the breaker box with the least amount of appliances running off it.  There was no concern about balancing the breaker box to keep all items on the same phase, or leg,line.  The line will terminate in a sub panel 45 ft from the breaker box.  This sub panel will have copper contacts.  From there I will run 4 identical length dedicated lines of 10/2 Romex (8 ft or less, all lines equal length) to plastic gang boxes with plastic face plates. I will use SR Blue receptacles.  Both primary breaker boxes will have SPD's (surge protection devices) placed immediately after the mains connect.  The 4 awg wire will be the next breaker line.  I am a PPT fan and will use "The Gate" at the sub panel and will paste all connections with total contact.  My electricians are fine with this.  When I asked them if they had a better idea, they responded that in their opinion this was the best approach. I had discussed the benefits an isolation transformer with whart who has extensive experience with that particular set up as well.  I think the baseline power in my area wouldn't benefit from the extra cost.  I can always add an isolation transformer to the current set up which would need to be in place anyhow.  Thanks to all who contributed to this forum, but especially to jea48 who has gone way out of his way to help me.  Also thanks to Audiozenology for putting the idea forward in the first place-winner, winner chicken dinner.  From what I can gather, the ideas put forward in this thread are the distillate of the best options currently available.  Hopefully this will serve as a reference point for others.  Benzman,are you still following?