Timely thread for me. I'm in the process of buying a new TT and arm. And by coincedence, I'm getting a Teres 265 with a Morch DP6 (with the 12" wand). Thanks to all for the information. |
I have a Morch UP-4 and I don't use any damping at all.
I found that getting the tracking force dialed in correctly
kinda by trial and error proved to make a huge difference. |
SirSpeedy, is your pal YODA interested in selling his Air Tangent (if he hasn't already)?
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Hi Sirspeedy,
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Good to hear from you and glad to hear that you are finally getting your TT back.
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I had a Symposium Ultra that I used under my CDP and it killed the sound. I have no idea how it will do under a TT.
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I would definitely recommend that you get a set of Symposium Rollerblocks to use with the Ultra and see what results you get. The Rollerblocks come up used on Audiogon fairly often, but you have to be quick, they go fast.
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If the Rollerblocks don't do well under your TT, I can almost guarantee that they will help either your CDP (if you have one), pre-amp or amp. They are one of the best add-ons to my system. In fact if you get a pair on don't like them, I will buy them from you for up to $ 250.00 as set.
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Let us know how your TT sounds with and without the Symposium Ultra shelf.
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Rgds,
Larry
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Hey,Larry!Nice to see a post from you.You have always come across,to me,as a likeable guy.Just wanted to let you know,I am FINALLY getting my COSMOS back this Tuesday.Added a Symposium Ultra Shelf,as a gift for my table.Whew,I've got a ton of interesting lp finds to explore.Hope all is OK with you.
PS. My pal YODA,shockingly,has decided to replace his Air Tangent,with the new 12.6 VPI arm.Also,he's getting a new VPI TNT 6 hot rod.He claims that the maintenance of the Air Tangent is becoming too much to deal with,as he is now getting a bit long in the tooth,and losing patience with the fotzing around necessary for cleaning out desecant from mechanisms involved.The pump is also getting noisy,and new desecant(whatever that is)costs 200 bucks.
I hope to God he does not lose the MAJESTIC ambience afforded by the air bearing,but understand the ergonomic decision made.I'm going over to his "Record Collection"(I'd say house,but,it IS literally just one HUGE record collection,behind closed walls)a week or 2 after installation.We'll see if new designs can compete with such a "Classic"!! |
Hi Larry: The DP-6 is different than the Graham design. Yes, I try with vertical damping and I can tell you that ( at least in this issue ) the designer really knows his product.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
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Holly,
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I think both Doug's and Raul's comments are valuable
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I would suggest a melding of both their points in that you start without any damping fluid, wait 200 hours (more than the 100 Doug recommended, I think more break-in time would be important).
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Then, if the damping fluid is easily removed, try adding some damping fluid in miniscule amounts (literally one small droplet at the end of a toothpick) at a time and listen using the same reference LP that you know well and displays all of the frequency ranges. It is a long process, but well worth the effort if it works in your set up..
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Below are a couple of links for threads on Audiogon, related to using damping fluid on a Graham 2.2 arm that will give you some additional insight. It is not directly related to a DP-6, but the dialogue is well worth your time to read.
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http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1108179762&openusid&zzCello&4&5#Cello
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http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1096560646&openusid&zzCello&4&5#Cello
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Where as Raul may end up being right, I think it is well worth the time to experiment in your system with your cartridge.
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I once spoke with a Graham rep at a demo of a new Graham Arm and he had not put any effort into getting the damping fluid right and did not seem to realize the huge value in having the right amount of fluid in a Graham arm. I am not sure that the manufacturers always have as much experience with their own products in some areas as some of the customers do.
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Doug and I were together when we found out how important getting the correct amount of fluid was on a Graham arm with an Airy cartridge. The sonic improvement was startling.
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I cant tell from Rauls post if he has tried experimenting with the damping fluid or not. If he has, not then he might be missing an opportunity to get even better sound from his system.
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Rgds,
Larry |
Dear Holly: I try my Dp-6 with severals cartridges. I always use it with out vertical damping: it works wonderfull on that way. I talk directly with the designer and he agree that this tonearm don't need that vertical damping.
This tonearm is a great design and great execution design. No, you don't need that extra damping.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Hi there,
No experience of the Morch but after to speaking to the designer, I decided to try damping fluid once more in my Kuzma Stogi S.
Initial attempts lead me to use it undamped with my zyx Airy 11.
Other changes to the system have made it a lot more transparent and the zyx, at least in my system, seems to work much better across the board with damping applied.
Still very,very dynamic with better control and much tighter bass. Nitpicking it might have rolled of the top end a bit but the fluid is a pain to work with so not keen to start experimenting with the amount in the trough.
I would try it undamped then add the fluid in stages.
Simon |
Hopefully Raul or someone else who uses the DP-6 will step up and give you experienced, hands-on guidance. I know Morch cautions agains overdamping, thus my caution.
We prefer no damping in the trough of our TriPlanar, but the mechanisms are completely different so that means little to you. If the Morch acts at all like a Graham 2.2 then some amount of damping will be beneficial. It may be very touchy though, and very tiny additions or deletions are audible.
Once concern is that different cartridges may prefer different damping. This is actually pretty likely. If you had two armwands and two widely different cartridges, you might have trouble optiizing for both.
But all that is way in the future. Glad to hear you're about ready to spin again. Go party! |
Thanks, Doug. When Chris and I took the DP6 and ZYX cartridge out for a test run on his Model 255, the tonearm had zero silicone damping in it and the system sounded really good. I will take your advice and leave the pivot point chamber without silicone fluid in it.
I hope to finish the turntable set up tonight so I can start listening to my vinyl again. :-D
Holly |
Hi Holly,
I haven't used a DP6 or R100H, but I have heard four other ZYX models on various tonearms. Minimal or zero damping has often sounded best. As a rule, most ZYX models seem to be pretty well damped internally. The Airy 3 is an exception, but it was specifically designed to be more energetic than its predecessor.
Those with DP6 experience can be more specific about how that arm responds. If the damping fluid is that difficult to remove I'd start with no fluid at all. Put at least 100 hours on everything. The cartridge at least will change over that time so real fine tuning is pointless. Once everything has broken in you might add tiny amounts while you listen for changes. Still, less is often more with this stuff. |
