MoFi controversy

@dconsmack - MoFi corrected the mistake that some have taken issue with. I didn't care. 

I want the best sounding record possible. Your organic produce argument doesn't hold weight - there are no health benefits to pure analogue.

Not sure why you want the best analogue sound possible, don't you care about pressing quality? . Are you trying to judge engineers in a contest for third place (or lower) in terms of SQ? Engineers can do a great job, but if the pressing sucks, what is the point?

I only care about the SQ. My understanding about the One Steps is that they improved the vinyl production process (and providing the best vinyl quality) by eliminating 2 steps in the typical lacquer/stamper process where distortions inevitably occur. I didn't think they were doing anything different in the mastering process.

I wanted to compare them to the UHQRs I have from back in the early 80s, which are the best sounding records I own. Those UHQRs are at a disadvantage since they are 33s and not 45s. I have the original Paul Simon Still Crazy on vinyl and from the second when I dropped the stylus on the One Step, it blew me away. Easily as good as or better than the UHQRs. Counting for inflation, $100 for a 33 One Step or $125 for a 45 is about right compared to the UHQRs which I think listed for $50, which you could buy discounted. The UHQRs gave an authenticity certificate and graphical printout of the frequency response of the record, which is pretty cool. The One Steps have the album graphics on a separate insert, which the UHQRs didn't provide. I'd like to be able to get reasonable priced outer sleeves for these that fit.

I don't like the scalping/collectability aspect of these records, with people only intending to treat them as investments and never playing them. They were meant to be played and enjoyed. They are not stamps or coins. If there was some way to avoid that (I know they try to limit it to by allowing the buying of only 2 copies, but scalpers get around that by hoarding or whatever). I wonder how much closer the price would be to other amazing sounding records like  Analogue Productions 45s which go for about $60, but don't have all the extra packaging, which I am sure adds a lot to the retail price. Maybe they'd come down $20-25.

$125 is a lot to pay for a record, and I would only add to my One Step collection (now at 2) if 1) It is one of my favorite albums and 2) my existing copy leaves something to be desired. For example, my Nightfly Japanese pressing is already a reference within my collection, so I never thought of buying the One Step. If I was trying to make money, I surely would have bought a couple of them. 

Maybe they can only sell them to retailers who agree to sell them for MSRP, like they do for record store day releases. That would be a help.

Can't wait for Cannonball's Something' Else to come out on the One Step.......the list of others I would buy is pretty short in case anybody has any impact on the title selection reading here....Royal Scam, Pretzel Logic, Deja Vu, John Barleycorn. If anyone has a great Japanese pressing of one of these, please DM me.

Sorry about the above sloppy post and duplications. It is impossible to figure out how to embed links and then continue to add text at various places.

Hey @optimize  -

That was just to put this issue to bed. MOFI is now showing the sources for the mastering of the One Steps, unless they are not sure of what they'll use yet for ones not yet released. Most are 1/4" 15ips from its master to DSD 256, although they vary a bit. (Thriller is 1/2" 30ips, although I can't see them selling 40K of these).

A lot of guys are a lot deeper down the rabbit hole than I am. I've spoken with a guy who has 5-6 copies of the same record from different labels. And  he wouldn't sell me his second best copy! That's a deep hole. At least he's not trying to scalp them. Also, I don't know if you've ever heard of Better Records, but their customers are WAY down the rabbit hole. They sell normal pressings for hundreds of dollars. Cheapest are $169. Check this out - 

How about $900 for a regular copy of Aja? I am sure it sounds great, but $900? Hey - if you've got $$ to burn, more power to you, and they do guarantee satisfaction.

BTW - just to put this issue to bed, MOFI is explaining the sources of the UD 1 steps on their web site now, unless they don't know what they are going to use on the new ones. 

@dconsmack -  I hope there are lots of people like you out there. It will keep the prices of the used UD 1steps down and keep the scalpers who don't ever play them away. Please continue cutting off your nose to spite your face.

To set up an equal quality DAC, streamer, transport, etc. costs more than an equivalent quality sounding vinyl rig. Plus add in some subscription fees and the inconsistency of your ISP and it's not as cut and dry as you think @alexberger 

If you want a huge variety of new music and library and are just starting out, I would go digital. Most people on AG are not in that mold. Lots of old folks, and those getting there (like me).

Music Direct owns Mobile Fidelity.

You have got to be kidding me. I own dozens of Original Master Recordings from Mofi including a couple of One Steps, and would be upset if a ridiculous lawsuit caused them to go bankrupt. Whoever is suing them must not be a music lover, because it would lead to less competition and manufacturing of audiophile recordings.

I am not a lawyer (thankfully) but IMHO the only outcome of any lawsuit would be for MOFI to state the source/pressing process of each of their records, which they are now doing. The other damages are impossible to measure, and the only one getting paid would be the lawyers. We know what Bob Cray said about them....

Anyone trying to speculate buying their records and never playing them deserves what they get. For those of us who play them, we get the enjoyment, and if their value goes down as a result of this PR/Marketing blunder, so be it - that's life in the big city. I'm not selling - that will be my kids or wife's loss.

@mahler123 - please don't lump me in with the religious vinyl fanatics out there. If there is anyone who thinks it is impossible for some form of digital audio to sound better on some albums (or at least as good as vinyl), they are nuts. Especially since many were recorded digitally. I never had a reel to reel player, but it seems the religious vinyl nuts should try that - supposedly there is universal agreement that it is better than vinyl.

In general, I avoid fanatics about anything. Fans are OK - fanatics/extremists, not so much.

I had a CD player because I couldn't get new vinyl in the 90's. Unplugged it when vinyl became available again about 10 years later. Bought the ones I liked the most on vinyl and kept the CDs for the car and garage. To me vinyl sounded much better, except with the rare noisy record. 

Since then, CD players have improved, streaming came along, Hi res DLs became available, etc. I had/have a very nice collection of vinyl (some audiophile pressings are excellent - some aren't) and wasn't going to move to digital. However, if I were starting out today, I would go digital of some sort. Probably streaming....

Hey @grislybutter - if you really want to blow your mind, check out Better Records. They recently had a copy of Aja listed for $899! It’s been well cleaned though….

i have a couple of the One Steps, and they sound amazing. I only got them because a dealer took a few of my older audiophile records in trade (which I never listened to). 
 

If this controversy makes the prices of these go down, maybe I would get a few more. If it makes scalpers avoid getting involved, all the better- more for the people who actually listen to them.

I think the guy who made the video is too serious or self righteous when he says he wants “the analogue experience”. Doesn’t he want the best listening experience? I kind of feel sorry for him- he seems like a guy who I is never happy, especially if the value of his Mofi inventory takes a hit because of an issue he helped emerge, which true audiophiles couldn’t care less about.

@grislybutter - the comparison should be the price of the audiophile records versus regular NEW records. Typical records, sometimes 180g these days, go for $20-$25. Audiophile pressings are around $35-$40. 45's usually up the price by $20 or so. All of these do sound better, and IMHO are worth the difference (45s if I really like the record), if they are available. There is a reason the popular titles sell out so quickly. There are a lot of people out there who agree with me. As a matter of fact, Somethin' Else (Cannonball Adderley with Miles) is sold out in  preorder in the One Step! Luckily I got my order in.

An excellent 45 from say Acoustic Sounds/Quality Record Productions goes for $60. Add in the deluxe packaging and more expensive pressing process, and the One Steps should go for $85-$90 in my estimation. The collectibility/branding makes up the difference. If this issue reduces that part of the value on the resale market to these type numbers, all the better. If it costs me by reducing the estimated value of my audiophile collection of Original Master Recordings, UHQRs and One Steps, I'm OK with that, since I am not selling, and I can buy others at a better price. It'll cost my wife or kids I guess if they sell them when I'm in a box. They'll never know the difference.

And yes it would be simpler to transfer the music in a Hi Rez download, but it costs way less, that is why records cost more.

And you do have a clue, because I would challenge any "golden ear" person to play a vinyl record and say whether there was any digital mastering involved. The point, in my mind of the One Steps was a better pressing of the record by simplifying that process, not so much the mastering in Analogue.

@grislybutter - they're not $10 records you're comparing them to. They're $20-$25 records if new. If they are 45's they are more. The One Steps are mainly 45's and they are $125. The 33s are $100. Compare apples to apples....

I avoid used records at all costs because you don't know what you are getting, although I am sure there are some bargains available. I've been able to pick up some NEW records on eBay for $12-$15.

The One Steps have already gone down a bit on Discogs, some titles more than others. I hope it continues.

Usually record stores price their used records based on condition (or maybe how much they paid for it, which should be based on condition), so the more you pay, the better SQ you get.

In terms of getting "the most" out of a record, that is impossible to assess. I would say more like the value, which is in the eye of the consumer. My cousin has a couple thousand dollar system that he thinks is very good and has other priorities than upgrading it (and that is really all that matters) and he appreciates better sounding records and buys them sometimes. I consider my low 5 figure system beyond very good (and don't want to invest a lot more - I've built it incrementally over 40+ years, never in big chunks) but plenty of people spend high five into 6 figures, some even 7! If you're playing with Monopoly money, why not? It must be nice. I just hope those people have the room acoustics to justify it. My brother in law has spent probably $60K or more on his system and it is in his office! (maybe 10x12) with speakers close to the wall because he can't move them out due to space limitations. 

Would you rather have bad sounding AAAA stuff? I buy it because it sounds good. They have since expanded on their explanation and describe what size and speed tape they use and the size of the data files. If that reduces their demand, all the better for me and the true audiophiles.

@grislybutter - yes it must be nice. Not me though- it’s all hard earned cash. I have a Rega P8 on top of a Townshend seismic platform sitting on a wall mounted shelf for max isolation. Cartridge and phono stage are also very important - (importance is reduced as you go down the signal path) van den Hul MC One Special and Sutherland Insight LPS. I feel the source is the most important so I purposely have spent less than what is typical on my speakers, KEF R500s. To round it out, I have. Plinius 8200MK II integrated amp and a nice Puritan Power conditioner. Traded in gear on most, and bought used, demos or close outs, except Rega.

The arm (RB880) is incredible. The table itself has some incremental upgrades from  my old P5 also. Its my biggest investment, but worth it to me.

@grislybutter -  Forgot to mention gris - I like clean, detailed and dynamic, to me warm means distortion. That's why I like the KEFs.

Also, I think they represent excellent value because they are made in China at a much lower cost (although with what China is doing now, I probably wouldn't buy them). If they were made in Kent, England like the Reference and Blade series', I bet their price would probably by 50-75% higher, so for me to get a noticeable speaker upgrade of my liking, it would probably cost me net (after trade) at least $5-6K, way more than I have ever spent at one time. Plus, I bought Symposium stealth platforms (custom sized) for under the KEFs which made a nice impact, reducing the noise floor beyond the standard spike/disc combo that is included with the speakers.

@grislybutter  - That is why the source is so important to my system and why I don't tolerate inferior quality records. I think there is good depth to the sound without the fuzziness, and of course high detail and very fast transients.

For my speakers, it would probably have been $2-3K more....

Hey Raul - where did you get that (only $10K left) from? They’re selling it for almost double retail. It’s sold out on the retailers who carry them straight from Mofi, Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct.
 

You can probably get a better deal from private scalpers on Discogs. That’s the  least expensive of all the Ultra Disc One Steps.

I was under the impression that any authorized retailer selling Mofis had to charge list price and not scalp like what happens in the resale market. I think Elusive Disc buys from individuals AND manufacturers, and in this case they probably paid more for this copy than a dealer pays.

in any event, Mofi is sold out. I think the only one available just came out within the past week or two, The Eagles On the Border. They vary the amount they press based on what they think the market will bear. They started 5 years ago with 2500 per title, but now it varies quite a bit. I think the minimum now is 5K and it goes up to 40K with Thriller.

What about Speakers Corner? Excellent, discounts available, but for some reason they don’t get that many titles. My Steely Dan Can’t Buy a Thrill is from them and it's incredible. The AS UHQR doesn’t tempt me, but if anyone out there has my reissue snd buys the UHQR, I’d like to hear your thoughts.