turnbowm242 posts11-06-2020 6:48am@millercarbon - You never answered my question regarding SR, but I think the answer is rather clear.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you read he did answered you, the one time he will. You got your shot across the bow, and he sunk your row boat... :-) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vibration / resonance are two different things.. Most speakers made with single and double layer 3/4 MDF, just won’t cut it.. HDF and panel breaks to control and tune the enclosure. You can’t have a thin light box. I found the more the enclosures sound like green concrete, laying on the ground, the easier it is to make the enclosure GO AWAY.. I’m not kidding at least 50 lb a foot for the enclosure. THEN vibration is not as big an issue, for the speakers drivers. Think about the enclosure shaking and a Voice coil trying to move smoothly through a very tight cylinder... Vibration is a driver killer in the long run... Vibration due to VIBRATION. BASS, making stuff shake... OK simple answers. I studied the mass loading thing. Interesting indeed!! It still has the same effect as a making the cabinet (enclosure) out of a better dampened cabinet material to begin with.. Aluminum, will ring like a bell, but cast the stuff, add fluff.. one great sounding material...Add 1 layer of rubber (silicone) between 3 layers of 3/4 mdf...Works good... For my TT stuff you have to have good isolation from the sound in the room and from the vibration it is making... BOTH help a lot for, my CD players too. I try to keep tube amps, isolated pretty much.. SS not near as much. I find less distortion, clearity, and longevity increased for the actual valves.. I lift cables because it’s easier to clean.. really, I lift and separate cables though, I won’t let cables touch AT ALL, if they have to cross, 90 degree. If I had it my way.. an Ampa style music room, no top, no sides, and carved out of a mountain side.... There would be NO vibration... Bring your own seat cushion, its gonna be a tough set without one... I set up and listen, for sometimes a year, then tear down inspect, change as needed.... always a little change or something I been working on.. Regards... |
millercarbon OP6,455 posts11-07-2020 11:35amThe early bird reads the good post. Got to be fast to beat the snowflakes and censors around here. oldhvymec triggered someone with his edifying and entertaining post, now removed, leaving us all the poorer. Such are the times these sad dark days.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must apologize. LOL If you could have seen it it was pretty dramatic. I guess it was not for everyone... Was off subject a bit.. But Dads vary.... LOL War Dogs are War dogs.. We get to enjoy EVEN the the right to delete.. Vibrate on good fellows, vibrate on... I'm good for one every now and then for sure... The dog is giving me the look... She hates to give up.. LOL. terriers... Regards.. |
MC, I have an issue that is going to be rising, same thing.. Leg on the speakers! I have 5 pieces that are on Queen Ann legs, there will be 9 total. 4 leg per. The cabinets vary from, hardwood, to MDF and HDF.
I need to figure some type of magic for the vibration issues in the hardwood legs. I’m thinking drilling and filling with lead, and or silicone?
problem is if I fill with silicone and don’t like it... Hard to get back out..
Lead shot? I have a shot maker. Been 45 years, but it turns out 50 at a pop...3 different sizes.. What you think on the legs and dampening (vibration control). I’m at a stop because of it..
I know I can bore the legs and add the shafts for the shot.. I just want a simpler solution... AND not kill the "Look" that was the reason to begin with. Elegance and complete precticaly.. I want it all. Silly me..
Put the legs in pots? or a pit? AGAIN what the heck is that gonna look like? :-) I like LEGS... what can I say?
I know ugly works... OK I know.. I was going more for the Ginger Rogers Gams though...
Regards... |
have an idea that can be DIY that you may like? And you could paint to match the cabinets. You have a PM mate
<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm all ears.. LOL, and out of gas. Man oh man, I get tired easy.. Winter is gonna be here in an instant.. I'm moving all the outside stuff inside.. PM me, I want to share the vibration stuff, and not clog MC thread up with the other, kinda tough.. I'm gonna try though.. I've set up a pit.. for the MB columns. Adjustable dampening for Hydraulics is another option. Rexroth make a wonderful 12-24 vdc unit, fully adjustable a and b circuits... for loads from 50lb to 5000lb, shock ratings are VERY quick... As fast as a hammer strike... https://www.boschrexroth.com/en/us/products/product-groups/mobile-hydraulics/topics/accumulators/ind... look about mid page, THAT is a bidirectional with neutral hydraulic A/B dampening circuit. Elect over Hydraulic... Add shocks and a henge, almost perfect in design.. 100% dampening adjustments for every weight and speed.. THEN springs would be easier to implement, if at all, compare air ride to spring over... USE BOTH, the best of old and new. Cantilever..??? That could handle 2 -10 pieces (circuits) for around 1500.00 for 4 speakers and at least one HEAVY Equipment rack.... gears are grinding for sure. 400 lb speakers and 500-1000 lb for the TT and gear rack.. Regards.. |
Yup they are attached via screws, BUT not glue. I can add between the two. I was looking for a finer furniture look though. I was thinking O-Rings between the two, maybe more than one grove, more than one ring..
I just started sound testing. I was surprised.. Those legs and MDF are pretty good.
The Hardwood TT plinth, though.. MERCY. The oak is so cured and HARD. Pretty noisy.. It took all summer to get the corner seams to settle. They were glued, a blocks added, drilled, clamped and THEN screwed. I almost had to thread the holes.. that was some HARD wood.
Black Oak block and resin. Red oak shins... Stair flats 3 years cured...
1" thick..
Rubber line? What is the name of that sh$t, that you paint on the inside of speaker cabinets... Ceramic paint? Can’t remember... BOTH. Paint and rubber, or silicone paint? Is there such a thing? THE cost... What about that spray stuff for fixing leaking gutters, or holes in boats... That stuff... Gotta be silicone.
Chicken feedin’ time...
Regards. |
millercarbon OP6,501 posts11-09-2020 4:29pmGreat, what I was hoping. So here's my idea: springs between the speakers and the stands. Don't run! Do it like I'm gonna say and they will look almost exactly the way they do now, BUT they will sound a lot better and no more problems with the stands.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea is great, my problem is cutting the pockets. That is apatong wood, (hard) it takes a water cooled bit to cut it.. When I got the legs a mod per leg was, 30.00. I got a hold of the guy to cut the pocket now over 50.00 per pocker 5% accurate. 36 times 50 = 1800.00. There is a one time set up charge of 200, or 250.00. 2100.00 total. LOL the legs were 49-79.00 per set of four... Shems, inner/outer springs for up and down.. Are the springs your using progressively wound? Tighter at the bottom, than at the top? OR Same wrap all the way down? I'll just rebuy and have the mods done and have two set one with and one without. If I decide to go that way... I can dress the space between the two pieces with a leather seal that will look quite nice, and used often as drawer seals, stops and the like... I just have think it out.. That is a few quid.. I know the spring aren't that expensive. Getting them in the leg, AND still mounting the leg too. All the mounting holes would be removed by the spring bore. It would take at least 3 screws to secure the leg, or one through the center. More CNC work if I'm not careful.. Suppose I could drag out my duplicating table, for that.. Lot of time... For making gun stocks, guitars body and necks... Cutting weird stuff.. Just need a master to copy from...and add the water cooling pump, hoses, and return tray... I'm an analog guy, what can I say... :-) Regards |
If you have wood harder than that.... man that's some hard wood!
One of the hardest in the world and weathers like Teak.. It is used for wooden decks on wood top low beds and really good steak bed gates.
Wooden legs (when painted) CNC and duplicating sculpture. Yea it will tear up a blade pretty quick, BUT I've used it for years, as trim on baltic Birch. The longer it ages, the more of a chocolate color it turns.. Can't dent it.. Tear a car to pieces with a 1" 24" stick.. Beat it to pieces, LOL
Gotta use water.. It stinks to high heaven too...cut dry.. really stinks...
So the springs are only 1/4" around, that is tiny.. I can bore that with a reamer or a bit...and finish the pocket with flat cutter, shim with 1/4 washers.. That's easy, I was thinking 2-3 inch bore.
Thanks..
Regards |
MC, I got a question, are the granite slabs, your using, MMG (man made granite), or quarried? Quarried, granite, has a few different signatures.. ay? Quartz vibrates, right? I know when I use to show up and they were doing core samples, seeing how to reinforce the substrata. Pretty impressive what Old mother nature can put together.
Some of that stuff can ring like a flippin bell... Looks nice, though..
Caliche, natures concrete... Las Vegas...Bisite, and Granite in NY, everything ELSE in between..
Just wondering...
Regards |
bigkidz2,358 posts11-13-2020 8:49amProbably better to just buy better components then to go through all of this stuff to begin with IMO anyway. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok I’ll bite.. which one? We’re all on a journey, which one first, or just dump the whole bunch? What do you recommend? What does better mean? Guys like me, I’m not the rich kid on the block, or the "new one either". Some stuff I CAN’T or would NEVER pay the price, others would.. I dropped off a guy last night.. Give me the system he had, I’ll take it. BUT If I had to pay for it, I’m sorry to say, under 1/10th of his budget and that’s a push, for me.. It’s more like 1/20th. 25,000.00 is a lot for me.. I have lots of vintage gear, But what I listen too, That’s a whole different thing. I’m handy though, REAL handy, I’ll do my own, AND still get happy.. Regards |
Vibrations and resonance controls are the beginning and the more easy task between the 2 other embeddings (electrical and acoustical)....Try to think about it.....This thread is an occasion to do so....Dont upgrade before thinking....
:)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well said, I’ve select my stuff for what it can do. Doesn’t mean I’ve pulled ever last drop out of it. I’m just now 9/10 of the way done BEFORE set up, in 2 30 year old rooms. BOTH were built with sound in mind..
I just had to retire to get it the way I like it. My two hand built the house, I’m gonna finish the house...
Vibration was addressed when we poured the foundation, I used friction piers on stem walls. Double up on the girders and floor pinning..
Electrical, the friction piers are the house BOND, the earth ground is hooked to every pier... Every pier is 10 feet in the ground.. Every 4 feet..
16 piers outboard, 6 piers inboard.
Acoustics were addressed when built.. Front wall is a 3 foot deep 15 foot long, 8 ft tall BASS trap and equipment racks. That area is a solid concrete foundation 2 feet deep, 3 foot wide and 15 foot long.. You just open the THREE trap to access equipment, and or dampen the room real quick.. depends on the music..It was and is used for a closet, BUT that wasn’t the original intent, Don’t tell the wife..
NOW to clean the crap out of here and get it done.. No one is gonna do it for me... Everything is here...
I been collecting stuff for this swan song for years...IT’S TIME..
Stupid heart attacks, slowed me down, I feel GOOD...Pain in the stomach/back to tell the truth... WEIRD...
I was use to givin’ them, not having them... :-)
SAY MC how the heck are you doing? You all fixed up now or what?
Still reelin' about the Turnover I bet.. I am.. Weird year!!
Vibrate on good man, vibrate on..
Time to feed the chickens.. Come on dog..
Regards
|
I had just turned 12 years old. My father was just back from South East Asia. He had just retired. 3 guys and a female in a car, ran into the back of the car. we were in.. They were DRUNK... No biggie right... The three guys start swearing at my father, one hit him. It WAS all over in less than a min.
I didn't see he had gotten out of the car with a small ball peen hammer.
3 men lay there moaning and one female screaming at everyone, except me.. I stayed in the car and got the 38 out of the glove box. I new I wasn't gonna get hit by ANYONE.... A kid from the south (and all over the world by then), in California, and 4 people thought they were gonna beat someone, up... I know what I would have done. Exactly what I was trained to do...Stop them by ANY means necessary...12 years old....
Dad fight.... They were really lucky, I seen him do a lot worse, when he was drinking...
Number one reason I don't let the piano drink...Too much Irish in the wood and ivory.. :-)
Regards.. |
