McIntosh C1000 tube pre vs. ARC Ref 3?

I listened to the tubed Mac against Ref 3 with esoteric cd player, B&W 802s MacIntosh 501 monolocks. Then listened to Ref 3 alone with Halcro amp and Hansen King speakers which were beautiful. Listened to classical guitar, Steely Dan, Van Morrison, smattering of classical and jazz. I have ordered the Mac pre and will use with Mac 2102 tube amp, VPI Superscoutmaster w Dynavector XV-1S, Bel Canto PL1 universal player, Stealth cabling, Wison Watt Puppy 7 speakers. What Fremer said in his review was so true. The background is so black on the Mac that all detail is revealed. All human voices lose grit and grain that I never knew was there until I heard voices without it. This is truly the least tubey- sounding tube product I have ever heard, but it is by no means solid state. The ARC wears tubes on it's sleeve very well. In fact, it could be more spectacular because of it's nice blend of color saturation. On the other hand, an instrument on the ARC can occasionally sound slightly unlike the instrument itself (although always on the side of euphony). The clarity and leading edge that the Mac has is simply missing on the ARC. But I was very impressed with it's way with music though and would probably have purchased that over any other pre I've heard. I have heard VTL, Conrad Johnson VAC, CAT, BAT all of which have great qualities and faithful adherents . I simply can't imagine a pre can sound better overall than the tube Mac 1000. Although I must qualify that I have not heard the Lyra Connesoisseur and I have heard Shindo and Lamm and liked them a lot (esp Shindo) but refuse to consider a pre that lacks flexibility of use and some form of remote. As far as looks are concerned, the Mac tubed preamp is simply far and away the prettiest piece of audio equipment I have ever seen. That's not why I'll buy it, but it's a nice extra. I expect to have it in hand by Friday. I'll update you on phonostage or any other aspect that you'd like.

Thank you all for your responses. I decided to arrange for a one on one in house direct comparison. The differences to my ears are that the Mac was more neutral and transparent. You could hear greater detail on passages, both simple and complex and better leading edge on notes. Also, human voice sounded more real. On the other hand, the ARC had more bloom, bigger soundstage and could be overwhelmingly beautiful. Much more drama. MAC = film. ARC = technicolor. I'll take the MAC but I could understand the ARC point of view. Also, MAC is one beautiful piece of audio jewelry.

I agree with your comment on synergies. Although I would guess that I have a grip on the gestalt of both. They are both world beaters with very different personalities. I auditioned at dealer. I intend to find out how Mac pre sounds with Halcro, Classe, Levinson and other solid state. But we can't buy too much all at once, so maybe next step at year end. I like the Mac 2102 alot, but of course an upgrade always leads to wondering how other new items will interact with the newest purchase. Best case, you realize you have what you like the best and stick with it. But how often are we that lucky?

Actually, slim is set forth above. I will add that the Ref 3 throws a huge, deep, wide soundstage. However, the downside is that instruments that shouldn't take up much space (eg oboe, James Taylor's acoustic guitar in relation to his voice) sometimes are not portrayed in proper proportion. Another upside to the drama is great tone color and texture. The Mac, on the other hand, was so pure, natural and neutral, I could not resist. Your taste may vary. Also, if ur into phono, the Mac stage is as remarkable as the rest of the package, much better than the 2200 pre phono stage which was merely above average.

Anytime. If you get to A/B these 2, let us know your viewpoint.

Well said Stesom. I could certainly understand anyone preferring the ARC sound over the MAC sound. These are 2 outstanding products. As to the straight wire with gain paradigm, the minute I think I hear something close to it, I hear something else that in some respects sounds more like it. In fact, this forms the basis for many of us of the disease known as audiophilia nervosa. For me personally, the MAC C1000 and the Stealth Indra interconnect are the 2 closest things I believe I have heard to the straight wire from source ideal. Some Japanese jewelry (Shindo, Zanden, Reimyo) approaches the ideal from a different direction---approaching the immediate and actual sound of things through careful selection of high end innards and voicing of components that is uncanny.

Fast forward a few years, the ARC Ref 40 leaves the C1000 in the dust.

I think you'll find the ARC/Mac combo to be a bit more transparent. It will change the character of your sound. If you like the Mac sound, complete the circle and go Mac. If you think you need a bit more bloom and transparency, go ARC. When I added an ARC pre to a Mac amp, I liked what I heard so much, I bought an ARC amp. Completely different sound which I now greatly prefer. Your opinion may differ.