Macintosch 8950 or parasound a21

I’m a dealer - McIntosh, Parasound and Klipsch, Sonus Faber, etc.

I personally owned Forte III for about a year and during most of that period I drove them with a MA252. I honestly never loved the combo. It was nice to have a little EQ for the Forte III and that’s one place where the MA352 has more to offer. Not to mention the added power. But I find the overall presentation of the 252 and 352 to lean a little dry and less tube-like. Good with Sonus Faber, less so, IMO, with Klipsch.

Of note, while the Forte III was rated in the mid-to-high 90’s as far as efficiency, I found it to be a little misleading. Continue to read and you’ll find that I drove them with a McIntosh MC462 before I sold them and the difference in grip and speed was palpable. I’d really wonder if part of your issue with the Single-Ended, 300B 508IA may be that the Forte just wants more power.

Eventually my Forte IIIs were replaced by JBL L100 Classics (I’m after a little vintage flare for this system) and shortly after that I went to (and still have) a Hegel H390 driving the JBLs. Before I sold the Fortes, I hooked them up in my main system which at the time was a McIntosh C53 and MC462. I heard what I think Klipsch intended for these speakers to be with the big amp. The MA8950 bears resemblance to the C53/MC462 and with a lot of power compared to the Line Magnetic. For this reason, and because you may find the 5-band EQ helpful, this could be a compelling pairing.

I don’t know Tekton well though I have read good things, especially for the money. If what I’ve read is accurate, they’re efficient, fast and dynamic and may tilt a bit forward. In the past, I’ve found nimble, energetic speakers to be a good fit with McIntosh.

It’s been a while since I’ve heard Maggies but my guess is that either Mac or Parasound would be a good fit there. Quite a stark contrast from the Forte or the Tekton, which I’m guessing is what peaked your interest. There’s a tweaky audio geek in me that wonders if you’d fall back in love with the Line Magnetic driving the Maggies. That is, as long as you’re not looking to rattle the walls...

Of note, the DA2 DAC module is the 8950 is pretty outstanding for what it is, but you’re paying for it. I’m not sure you’ll need it, having the Aurender though. And there’s the rest of the equation which is, the 8950 is a feature-laden integrated amp while the A21 isn’t.

Ultimately, both are good lines from good companies. McIntosh is legendary, has more prestige and great resale value. Parasound still works like a small business with an eye decidedly on value. They’re both great to work with.

As you’ll notice, everyone has their own experiences and opinions, and they can vary pretty widely. Bottom line is, you’ll only know what works for you once you’ve experienced it.

@bobster50 

There is a pretty significant difference between the MA8950 which is a transformer coupled (Autoformer) design versus the MA252 and 352 which are direct coupled. The vast majority of tube amps are transformer coupled due to the fact that high output impedance necessitates it. However, Solid state amplifiers don't suffer the same challenge and rarely employ output transformers. To my knowledge, McIntosh is the only company currently producing them. The advantage to having an output transformer is that the design can be optimize for one consistent, predictable impedance. The different taps represent longer windings, but all speakers (taps) will see the amp's potential output, not just lower impedance options. There are downsides - a large transformer (lots of copper) in the signal path, weight, and especially cost. McIntosh produces Autoformer in house and they're good at it.

While I will stop way-short of saying that transformer coupled solid state amplifiers are inherently better than direct coupled designs, McIntosh has honed the craft which is why all of their top solid-state models employ it. And since many people love tube amps and part of what you're hearing is the quality of the output transformer, it stands to reason that Autoformer amps may share a bit in common sonically with their tube counterparts.

To my ear, recent Autoformer McIntosh amps share the quality of being somewhat smooth sounding. My MC462 has a mild bottom-up presentation, it's dead-quiet and it's utterly smooth across the entire frequency spectrum. 

So, long story short - The MA8950 doesn't possess the mildly dryish qualities I've heard from the MA252 and 352. It sounds more like the 462 to me and I think most who have listened to enough Mac gear would probably agree. 

As for tubes on "harder-to-drive speakers," there is a consensus that they can't do it, but I've been surprised in the past. The Forte III, IMO, wants current. The little Maggie 1.7, while lower in sensitivity and impedance, is different. I once drove a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i with a Canary 300B amp and was surprised by how well it worked. I also had a dealer near me who made a career of driving Maggies with tube amps. He was quite "eclectic" but also brilliant. People in the industry were hard on him, in part because he was different. But I heard a few of his systems personally and I think that if others had, they may have struck a different tone. 

@bobster50 

To be fair to others, the room is pretty much half of what you hear. I've been in business for 20 years and in the industry for more than 30. I heard very nice gear sound bad and modest gear sound good, all depending on the room. It can be hard to "fix" a living space with treatment without impacting a room's aesthetic though. We deal with the balance between form and function in the Custom Integration business every day.

NAD is including Dirac Live in their top-of-the-line Master Series. Anthem has ARC in the STR line and Martin Logan leverages ARC in their top Hybrid ESLs. Even McIntosh has the MEN220 which borrows Lyngdorf RoomPerfect from Steinway Lyngdorf. All are high-end solutions designed to address issues with listening spaces through DSP. 

You may be dealing with a few challenges here. Room, synergy and tastes. I don't see a problem experimenting with any and all. But buying a MA8950 is an expensive "experiment" and that may be the underlying message from some of the commenters here. 

@bobster50 

I don't think you should let it discourage you. This is just how the world seem to be these days...  It's hard to get a read on someone's tone on here but there also seem to be folks who will say something from behind a keyboard that they may not say to you in person. I spend almost no time on Social Media for this reason but I figured I would start posting on here more. I like to help people where I can. And yes, if you leave, you'll avoid the bad apples, but also the good ones!

@jeffreyw

Shots fired! 🤣

There’s a lot to room treatment but I basically agree. It’s hard to effectively treat a bad room and also have it continue to look like a living space. Strategic absorption and diffusion can be effective but problems with bass are another story.

Also, I love that you pulled the trigger on the Mac rig! My system is similar but opposite - I stuck the larger amount of cash into the pre; C12000 and MC462. Are you still using stock tubes in the C2700? If so... I’m currently using Northern Electric 12AX7s and Mullard NOS CV4024 / 12AT7s in the line stage. I tried a bunch of 12AX7s and for my money, the Northern Electric wins out. Of note, they’re taller than any other 12AX7 I’ve used, and I have to leave the "hatch" off the tube compartment. The tubes run lukewarm at best, so I’m not overly concerned. If you don’t want to get "adventurous, I found the New Sensor Mullards and Genelex Gold Lions work well too, maybe lacking a touch of the liquid-smoothness and magic of the Norther Electric.

Also, nice to hear you got the Ref 1 Metas to sing. I’m also a KEF dealer and have heard good things. Unfortunately, I tried to bring in a pair for demo and they were backordered until forever.

Micah

@jeffreyw 

No offense taken! Wasn't aimed my direction anyway! 🤣

I had 601s while we had an active showroom. There is something to be said for those big meters. I firmly believe there is more to great sound than just what you hear. The ownership experience includes the enjoyment of the visual element as well! 

The C12000 is really good. I haven't spent extended time with the C2700 so I can't really compare the two. But it's meaningfully better than the C2500. If you every want to chat about my experiences with it, don't hesitate to drop me a line. Until then, enjoy!

Micah