Low buzzing through speaks

@kingbr OK are you ready to solve your problem? I think the high gain of the XLR connection or amp/preamp combo gain is your issue. A 10 db attenuator will kill that.  You might have to use a XLR to RCA adapter to make it work in your application. I'm 99% sure that is what your issue is.

Be sure to read this: A Discussion About Idle Hiss – Upscale Audio

Definitely not the Revels! 😂

dpop..I admire and respect your effort here. I wish you lived nearby.
i feel the same way about wanting perfection, but everything is great when I’m listening and it doesn’t affect the music. I’m still thinking it’s a cabling interference that I can’t track.

. I’m hoping you trouble shoot this out for both of us. My local stereo shop and I talked a lot about this for quite awhile, they wondered if it was a situation of my pre-amp. It’s a foreigner and they wondered if the xlr slots were wired differently. I switched to the rcas only, it didn’t make a difference in the buzz.

I’ll try connecting the wire for the ground between the Mac and Sim…

I’m not expecting this to change anything, as there should be no difference in ground planes between the two pieces of equipment, since they’re plugged into the same outlet, but you never know, and it’s still worth a try.

If we’re actually able to eliminate the buzz between the Sim and the Mac, it’ll be interesting to see what buzzes or hums pop up when reconnecting your pieces of equipment to the Mac, but let’s cross that bridge...

I am going to disconnect XLR’s and try the RCA’s first thing in the AM. Then I’ll try connecting the wire for the ground between the Mac and Sim…

Yeah definitely not the Revel’s, mere coincidence…

Yes very interesting (or ironic/coincidental) about the Revel’s. I connected the Mac and the brand new Revel’s at the exact same time. Fwiw I have Performa3 208’s, 208C, and M105’s. Yes had to jump on that 30% off sale, couldn’t resist!

Welcome @illaheman ! @dpop you're developing a following😂! But it’s a true reflection on your character that you have taken all of your valuable time to help. Cannot convey enough how much it is truly appreciated (though I’ll keep trying to convey😌).

Love what you said and that’s my thought and why I’m struggling to just accept because I have spent so much and dammit I think I (we all) deserve crisp clean sound!

As the great Jimmy V used to say “Don’t ever give up”! And like I mentioned earlier in this thread, the last resort is to call the church and have them send in a priest to get rid of this evil presence😂! 

I’m still in the fight man-thanks to you @dpop 👍🏻👊🏻

I think the common denominator here is Revel speakers.

That may be, but kingbr already stated that there’s no buzz when disconnecting the XLR cables, with the amp on. I’m assuming the amp is not being trigger ON by audio. I hope that’s not the case. That would be absurd (and thankfully I don’t see that mode of operation option mentioned in the Sim manual).

I think the common denominator here is Revel speakers.

what if I tried disconnecting the XLR’s and try RCA (I do have some of those Transparent as well actually though lower end of their line). Why not right?

GREAT idea!

Guess I could also order an el cheapo XLR too, because again why not?!

I would recommend it if you don’t mind.

I actually contacted Hosa the company and spoke with a gentleman in their tech support and ran this by him. He didn’t think their ground lift XLR would help as they are designed for microphones, but he admitted he did not know very much about home audio/HT.

It really depends on who you talk to. Some guys know where I'm going with this, and some don't.

I keep my Kismet amp on 24-7, my Hegel preamp as well. When I’m not going to be listening to music during most of the week. (I mostly listen Thursday through Sunday) I detach one of the XLRs. no buzz.

IMO, if you’re spending thousands of dollars on components and interconnects, you shouldn’t have to tolerate any type of noise or buzz. Isn’t that why you’re spending those big bucks in the first place? I’m sure kingbr could do the same (as what you’re doing), but I support his not wanting to, and I’m doing my best to try and help him out.

For over 3 decades I was a Chief Engineer for numerous radio stations. I learned the hard way how to eliminate hums and buzzes, of all kinds. Try connecting hundreds of pieces of broadcast equipment together (both balanced and unbalanced analog) in 14 studios (in one building), and see how many buzzes and hums you encounter (spoiler alert; there will be a lot). And if I do say so myself, there was rarely ever a buzz or hum I couldn't get rid of. 

If it were me, there’s no way I would tolerate a buzz, when spending thousands on home audio equipment. From looking at the manuals on line for the Sim and Mac that are involved here, the XLR outputs are of low impedance, and the balanced XLR inputs are of high impedance - exactly the way it should be, but that’s a very simple way of looking at this, as there’s so much more that goes into a decently designed piece of audio equipment. I’m having a hard time understanding why these two pieces of equipment can’t be happy (with no buzzing) playing nicely together (such technical talk).

No separating the cables made no audible difference whatsoever. This buzz has been steady and has not wavered from the first second it reared it’s evil presence😂!

I actually contacted Hosa the company and spoke with a gentleman in their tech support and ran this by him. He didn’t think their ground lift XLR would help as they are designed for microphones, but he admitted he did not know very much about home audio/HT. But I went and ordered one anyway☺️, cuz like you said it’s easy enough to return (like I just did with the Hum-X), and why not at this point?!

The Transparent cables are all 1.5m each…Guess I could also order an el cheapo XLR too, because again why not?!

@dpop  what if I tried disconnecting the XLR’s and try RCA (I do have some of those Transparent as well actually though lower end of their line). Why not right?

I’m rapt in attention to this. I have had this same situation for now two years.

I am music only, no theater. So, generally speaking I can hear the low buzz only from a foot away from my Revel speakers.
 

I have tried everything you have tried. Finally, after every iteration of plug in check, plug out check, new xlr, new rca, rinse and repeat I came to the following. If I take either one of my XLRs connecting between amp and preamp off at the back of the preamp or amp, the buzz goes away.

I keep my Kismet amp on 24-7, my Hegel preamp as well. When I’m not going to be listening to music during most of the week. (I mostly listen Thursday through Sunday) I detach one of the XLRs. no buzz. 

So, my solution this far is to…live with it. I’m watching this thread for any thing I’m missing…..

I did separate the XLR cables from any power cables and used a zip tie to keep them from separating and touching any power cables

Do you remember if that made any difference at all in the buzzing (even the slightest amount)?

do you just plug the XLR cable into that and then plug the whole thing into the Mac?

Correct, but of course I just recommend purchasing qty. 1 first. If you purchase from Amazon, you should be able to return it if it doesn’t eliminate the buzz (if you feel like going through the hassle). If it doesn’t work, it’s still a nice tool to have around in the future.

Like if it worked would I need 5 of those on each XLR cable I have?

Yes, if you still want to use the Transparent’s.

Just out of curiosity, roughly how long are the Transparent XLR cables? If you decide to purchase one of the ground lifter devices, I also wonder, just for comparison sake, if you should also purchase a cheap single XLR cable the same length as one of the Transparent Plus’, to see if just by chance a different cable design has an influence here (if by chance a friend doesn’t have a spare they could borrow you).

I did separate the XLR cables from any power cables and used a zip tie to keep them from separating and touching any power cables…I checked out that XLR ground lift cable via the link you sent. How does that work do you just plug the XLR cable into that and then plug the whole thing into the Mac? Like if it worked would I need 5 of those on each XLR cable I have?

I will do the wire first thing tomorrow and report right back as soon as the experiment is completed

Not a problem. We’ll take it from there. One other thing, I think you mentioned that your XLR cables were intertwined with other cables? Was that correct? Were any of those ethernet cables? Also, if they’re still intertwined, would it be possible to physically separate at least one of the XLR cables from all other cables, and connect it (all by itself), and see if any buzzing exists?

Definitely not easily, but I think I can do it. Unfortunately, damn work is now going to get in the way😡. I won't be able to get to this until tomorrow AM...But first thing I'll connect the ground wire...

Until tomorrow once again @dpop thank you, thank you, thank you. Sincerely man. Your time and support are greatly greatly appreciated. I will do the wire first thing tomorrow and report right back as soon as the experiment is completed...Have an awesome night and thank you again!

You wouldn't by any chance live near the NH area would you? Be happy to pay for your services to come out, LOL!

I do not. Sorry. That would make things a little easier wouldn't it. 😄 OK, so no spare XLR cables. Noted. Regarding the speaker wire that you have, we really only need to use one side (like either a plus or minus). Can you easily attach that to those ground terminals? Even if you just hold the wires against the ground terminals for a moment, while hearing the buzz, does it change the sound of the buzz at all?

Thanks so much again @dpop! Unfortunately I do not have any other XLR cables. I do have some old speaker wire I can hook up though. Does it matter if I use the positive or negative to connect the 2 units with the ground?

You wouldn't by any chance live near the NH area would you? Be happy to pay for your services to come out, LOL!

This would be an example of a device that lifts the shield on one end of the XLR cable. 

Female to XLR Male Ground Lift

If willing, it would be interesting to see if this connector would produce any different buzz sound results when plugged in using just one XLR cable.  

I have stripped the jacket off of a wire before but I’m already over my head as soon as we get past connecting stuff

Thank you for being honest and admitting that. There’s only two more things I can think of at the moment that I’d like to try, and one requires a different XLR connecting cable (which removes the shield connection - pin 1 - on one end). I can actually make them myself, but let me see if I can find something on the internet for you. The other is I’d still like to hear if there’s any buzz with that ground wire connected between the two rear panel ground screws. Is there any small cable laying around (like a small extension cord) you could butcher and sacrifice? If you don’t have a wire stripper, with a little guidance, a scissors could probably perform the same function.

Do you own any other XLR cables? If so, have you tried them to see if they produce the same buzz as the Transparent's do? 

Thanks man, skill level is novice, I'm already over my head as soon as we get past connecting stuff, sorry😯...I have stripped the jacket off of a wire before but yeah definitely don't want to play with that with the Transparent cables...

And yes, the buzz would have been there I just didn't put my ear up to that speaker but as soon as I plugged the 2nd rear in the buzz was there in both speaks at the exact same level whether 2 are connected or all 5. This buzz is steady, doesn't fluctuate...guess that's a silver lining😬

So just wondering if you have any kind of wire stripper? Have you ever stripped the jacket off a wire? We’re definitely not going to take apart those nice XLR cables, but I’m wondering, before we go any further, what your skill level is here, so I know how to further direct you?

The cables are all less than 2 years old and they are Transparent Plus so they’re not cheaply made, they’re solid…

I get it. I hear what you're saying. I'm not saying it's the fault of the cables yet. 

Ok, so you're saying that the buzz *did* take place when the first XLR cable was connected, but you just didn't hear because it was a rear speaker, yes?

@dpop The cables are all less than 2 years old and they are Transparent Plus so they’re not cheaply made, they’re solid…

Yes to all your questions and the buzz stays the same level no change whatsoever as each cable is plugged back in…And my goodness please do not apologize for anything, you are so helping me man…

@dpop so the only reason I didn’t hear the buzz with the 1 cable plugged in was because it was the rear and I didn’t listen to that one speaker. As I plugged the 2nd rear in that’s when I caught on that as soon as the XLR cable is plugged back in the buzz comes back in that particular speaker/channel…

@kingbr

I disconnected the first 4 XLR’s from the Mac leaving just 1 XLR between Mac and amp connected and buzz is gone???

Very interesting. OK, let’s stay on this path for a moment. From my understanding, and just so I’m 100% sure here, you’re saying with one XLR cable connected, there’s no buzz in any of the speakers, yes? If that’s the case, I would also try using that exact same cable, and plug it into all of the inputs and outputs you use when connecting the Mac to the Sim. When doing this, does this produce the same result(s) - no buzz? I would also recommend trying that same scenario with each cable, one at a time (I know this is probably a lot of work, but what we’re doing is seeing if all cables produce the same result). It might not be a bad idea to help identify which cables are which. Maybe a sticky-note (or something like it) could temporarily be affixed to each cable for identification purposes.

I’m also wondering if as each XLR cable is reconnected (when using all of them), does the buzz increase a little bit more in volume level as each cable is plugged in (or when the buzz is heard, it always remains at one volume level)? Also, is it safe to say that when the buzz is heard again, as each cable is plugged in, the buzz is directly attributed to the corresponding channel and speaker only?

Sorry for all of the questions, but this is the only way I can diagnose this, without physically being there.

@dpop  So as each balanced interconnect is plugged back in the buzz comes back in that particular speaker/channel. So it seems it is somehow connected to the XLR inputs?

@dpop So everything else is connected in the system like always (no ground wire connected), I disconnected the first 4 XLR's from the Mac leaving just 1 XLR between Mac and amp connected and buzz is gone??? What does this mean???

Thank you again (broken record but can't not keep saying it)...

@kingbr

So I just tried the cheater on the Mac and buzz still there

OK, good to know. Still waiting to hear if 1) buzz is in all speakers with just one XLR cable connected 2) any difference when ground wire is connected between GND terminals on Mac & Sim, with and without XLR cables connected.

So I just tried the cheater on the Mac and buzz still there (I tried going direct to a different wall outlet with the cheater and then using the cheater into the Furman with the Mac). Yes the wall plug is a 20 amp dedicated circuit. That is where the Furman and Simaudio amp are plugged into. The Mac is plugged into the Furman (as is every other component). The receptacle does have the 90 degree slots but both plugs (the amp and the Furman do not have the 90 degree plug, the Furman original cord did but I use a Shunyata 20 amp plug instead of the Furman stock cord). But I've used this Shunyata from the get go with the Furman and never had an issue until introducing the Mac...

@kingbr

One thing my amp is a C19 20 amp connection, I’m thinking trying the cheater on that would not be a good idea?

I did notice that in the manual diagram (that it had a 20 amp IEC connector on the rear), but it didn’t sink in. Thanks for pointing that out. Is the wall plug also a 20 amp plug (with one of the flat blades turned 90 degrees)? I’m just trying to eliminate either the Mac or Sim from an earth connection, so yes, applying it to the Mac should accomplish this.

Hi @dpop so give the cheater a try, I actually had ordered one on on Amazon but the Hum-X arrived first so once that didn't work, I didn't bother trying the cheater. But I'll give it a try. One thing my amp is a C19 20 amp connection, I'm thinking trying the cheater on that would not be a good idea?

@dpop I can't not thank you again for taking the time to help me here. Thank you...I'll try the cheater on the Mac...

So just like a normal speaker wire between the 2?

Correct, but I'm still very interested in hearing the results of the other tests I mentioned.

Whilst I didn’t try the cheater plug specially, the fact that the Hum-X didn’t work leads me to believe the cheater wouldn’t have any effect. 

Sorry, I can't agree with that @kingbr  - two different concepts. If it were me, I'd still try the cheater plug. You really have to eliminate all options here. I think they're only like $3.  

Thank you again for all of your time @dpop! So just like a normal speaker wire between the 2? No experience with this kind of thing? 

@kingbr

How would I connect a wire between the grounds on the amp and Mac? I don’t really see anywhere on either to connect a wire?

Looking at the on-line manuals, there’s a GND screw/connection on the back of each of the units. Connect a wire to each (from one to the other).

You know I also had a Leviton whole house surge protector installed last year as well. Then a week later had the dedicated 20 amp circuit for the HT rig…I figured I’d be safe as kittens from any outside dark forces trying to infect my rig😂🤷‍♂️…

@couger4u Thank you so very much for this reply! Honestly man it does help, more than you know. I had my very first “true” listening session this morning with my new speaks semi broken in (and the first session with the Mac quarterbacking the system) and like your experiences it sounded magnificent. It honestly made me forget the buzz was there. Because like yours, it is very faint and cannot at all be heard anywhere except ear to tweeter from 2 inches out and in. Fortunately my listening spot is much further out, LOL!

I just feel/felt my OCD needed to be sure I tried everything I could and honestly I really am there. Sure if I come across anymore suggestions I’ll try, but in the meantime I’m going to get back to focusing on the sound. Honestly thank you for this reply. Empathy and just knowing I’m not alone and that there are others who were able to move forward with this issue helps immensely! Sure I’m OCD, but I think adding the 5 brand new speakers at the same time as introducing the Mac gave me such high hopes and when the very first thing you hear is a buzzing, it’s like, well you know…

Thank you @couger4u…sincerely my friend..

I know my post will not help you, but I have the same exact issue you are having. I tried everything that you did but the buzz does not go away. As it is only when you get your ear close to the speakers you can hear it, Eventually I decided it is not worth the anguish and I listen to only music, and it sounds great. Just my two cents. 

I actually tried the Hum-X which essentially is the same as using a cheater plug. It didn’t work, still had the him. Whilst I didn’t try the cheater plug specially, the fact that the Hum-X didn’t work leads me to believe the cheater wouldn’t have any effect. 
 

How would I connect a wire between the grounds on the amp and Mac? I don’t really see anywhere on either to connect a wire?

I see that both the Sim and Mac have 3 prong AC plugs. I don't think anyone has suggested it yet, but another suggestion is to temporarily (just for test purposes) lift a ground on one of the units (either the Sim or Mac), with the XLR connectors connected, and listen for the buzz. You can accomplish this by using a 3 prong to 2 prong AC adapter (hopefully you have one laying around, otherwise Home Depot or any hardware store has them). For this test, the only two units connected (with any inputs or outputs connected) should be the Sim and Mac, and nothing else. 

Thanks for replying @dpop and great call. I thought of disconnecting the XLR cables 1 by 1. Have not tried that. But yes when I disconnected the XLR's between the Mac and my amp (everything else was connected at this point to the Mac and all the speaker cables to the amp), the buzzing was gone. My cables are Transparent Plus XLR's and they are under 2 years old so I figured it could not be the cables (and again taking into account the buzz was not there with my previous processor). But what else do I have to lose at this point? I will give that a shot. Again thank you for taking the time to respond and help😀

Just wondering...am I correct in understanding that when all XLR’s are unplugged between the Sim and Mac, there is no buzzing? If that is the case, if you reconnect just 1 of the 5 XLR cables, does the buzzing return? If so, in all speakers?

Just for the heck of it, I would also trying connecting the grounds on the rear, between the the Sim and Mac (with any piece of wire you have laying around), and see if that changes anything. Try this with and without the XLR's connected. 

And I am wireless with my router..

Thanks @jb1. I don’t think it’s a ground loop. I have literally tried everything. I unplugged everything one component at a time and buzz/hum still there. The only time it went away is when I disconnected all the IC’s between the Mac and my amp. So I know it’s not my amp (only the speaker cables were connected to the amp at that point). It has to be the Mac. Someone else above said they had the same problem and it’s the Mac…it’s definitely livable as you can only hear it when you put your ear within a couple inches of the tweeters. And you cannot hear it while anything is playing🤷‍♂️. That said just knowing it’s there I just can’t seem to get my head around just living with it, but I feel short of selling it, I’ve tried everything that’s been suggested and then some-including taking it to a Mac service center but to your point I’m not sure that will do anything😔…

The first step is to determine what type of buzz you are hearing: Is it ground, DC, or just the Mac itself. If the buzz is in the speakers or subwoofers,  it is usually some type of ground issue. You should check the outlet with a polarity tester to make the sure there is a proper ground: Next disconnect the modem/router if hard wired. If the buzz is still there, the you can disconnect the mac and see if it goes away: If it is ground issue, a ground loop isolator will usually work, most conditioners do nothing for ground or DC issues from my experience. Also, from my experience in install and sales, most issues are the equipment picking up something either electrical or in the ISP and then passing it through the speakers. So if you send the unit in for service, there is high probability of a no problem found diagnosis.

@wanganui  Thank you very helpful! nI just tried my last resort-the Hum-X and nothing! Buzz/hum still there...

Try another you mean other than McIntosh? Are they all prone to this?