Charles, that's the beauty of this Western electric cable. I am guessing that the insulation that it was produced with is contributing to the sound that we have all fallen in love with. So I am not covering it with any dielectric. My instinct is to leave it uncovered and as natural as possible. As long as I am not getting hum or any radio frequency interference I see no reason to insulate it. |
With you Grannyring. We are all experimenting I know nothing about the science of building IC's and most IC's do have shielding so it is natural to do that. Without shield I may be introducing all sorts of crap into my system that I cant hear. |
Thank you Almarg
This does sound reasonable:
"un-shielded cable giving the perception of more air and top end extension".
But in this case I am hearing this openness throughout the entire frequency range. To my ears I hear a more fully developed harmonic structure from the bass thru the treble that I would argue sounds like it is simply the way these cables sound. Wouldn't it be great if we could all get togehter in the same room for some listening!!
Grannyring- looking forward to your observations once you build the second pair of IC's. This will be interesting.
This goes to Charles's suggestion: I have this idea: pull off all of the insulation from some WE16ga stranded wire and then re insulate it with cotton shoe lacing. Building WE16ga interconnects in this manner would let us find out what influence that rubber insulation has. Jet |
I am excited for you Grannyring! It's a revelation when they turn that corner and become really expressive! |
Grannyring Can't wait to hear more of you're impressions and I am very courious to see if they shut down on you like they did to me after about 160-170 hours. I think that at over 250 hours my WE interconnects have finally stopped changing their sound. Keep us posted. From the tone of your post I totally get how wonderful they are sounding. |
Thanks for the update Grannyring. I've got enough WE16ga for three interconnects so later on I should build a pair with shielding. We have folks coming over for listening and a barbecue today it will be interesting to see what they think of my nude Western electric interconnects. Jet |
Hi Grannyring, is this the shield you bought from ebay? "10' 8 AWG Gauge 3/8" X.090" Braided Flat Grounding Strap Ground Wire Copper Tin".
I want to make sure I have the correct diameter. Is 3/8 inches enough to fit the positive and negative leads of 16g WE wire? Or is 1/2. Inch a better choice. Thank you. |
Mortsnets thanks for sharing. Apparently Jeff likes the Belden for their "rich smooth forgiving presentation". If a listener wants to smooth over the rough edges his preference might be Belden. This would be a listener preference. In my system the WE16ga interconnects do not hide any of the rough edges of but at the same time does not sound overly bright. So WE at this point is my preference. I have well over 300 hours on them at this point. Jet |
Maxima9, I agree. I plan on building a shielded version. Currently I am running unshielded. WE16ga is so interesting sounding to me that I want to learn as much as possible before drawing any firm conclusions. Incidentally I don't necessarily agree that Belden sound forgiving at least I don't hear them that way in my system. But the WE16 IC never sounded polite to me and before they were broken in there was times that they sounded aggressive. WE16 IC are so far musical force and very expressive in my system. |
I would also add that I don't want my system to sound forgiving. Once again a listener preference. |
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Thanks Gannyring and Mitch2. I just ordered 1/4 braided shield. |
Ps, The center pin on the RCA is Positive (hot). The longer outside shaft is Negative (Ground). Your shield and negative wires can both be soldered to that longer shaft. Positive goes to the center pin. I don't have my Belden IC's in front of me so I don't know the color coding, but Red is usually the positive (hot) wire. Jet |
Mitch2 that's what makes this thread so intersting is all the differing listening impressions.
Salectric thanks for the update. I just ordered four Canare F10 RCAs. :))) |
Built my second pair of WE16ga interconnects tonight with Canare F10 RCA plugs. The braided shield I ordered has not come in yet so these are burning unshielded for now. My first set naked WE ICs have well over 400 hours and I am still liking how open and free they sound. They are brightly lit so it will be very interesting to install the shield and see what changes it brings. Regards-Jet |
Leggoslave, The Cardas 33Ga IC's look very interesting. Thanks for posting. A project for later on this year when the weather gets cooooold here in NYC.
Grannyring I'll update once the braided shield arrives - Jet |
An update on Western Electric 22Ga solid core interconnects. After 300-400hrs I ended up not liking them. They sound monochromatic. They lack texture and color. I built them with Switchcraft RCA plugs and two runs each for the positive and negative poles. Regards jet |
I bought another set of Canare F10 rca plugs and am going to put them on my Belden cable and see how they sound |
Based on Grannyrings experience I just ordered 4 meters of the Duelund 16g to build ICs with Canare F10 RCA connectors. I had made ICs with Canare/16g WE wire both shielded and un shielded but when I got Kondo ICs at a very good price my WE ICs could not compete with the depth of naturalness and instrumental color of the Kondos. Jet
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Hi Charles, around the first of the year I settled on Kondo ICs. After I finished the amp chassis with copper, aluminum and much less wood I also went back to the Audio Note Lexus speaker cable and like the sound so much I haven't had any interest in changing cables since around May 2016. As the sound of my amp has changed so has my taste in cable. But now my curiosity is peaked after reading about the Duelund 16g...and it's so cheap....why not!
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The Duelund 16g stranded speaker wire arrived on Thursday and I made interconnects using canare f10 RCA plugs. They'll burn in for two weeks in the back room. will report back.
I pulled apart The WE16g wire that was used as interconnects in the back room and put some of it in my amp as hook up wire. Specifically in the power supply b+ and power supply to ground. Been in there since Tuesday and so far I like it. It's sound has been changing a bit everyday so it's too soon to say anything for sure. |
Charles, Brett and I have texted a few times in the past few months. Iast I heard he was in a new place and going to build a system in there but I don't know if he has finished it. |
After 12 days with the WE16gauge installed as hook up wire in the b+ and power supply ground, where the sound was changing everyday, the sound is much more natural than the 12guage GE wire it replaced. The tinnyness of the GE is gone, but I am hearing a lack of clarity, a veiled sound in the lower mids that was not there before. Will leave it in for a few more days. I have ordered 3ft of 14guage solid core silver wire to try in the power supply ground. If that sounds good I'll have enough of the silver left to install into the b+.
the Duelund 16g interconnects don't sound fully broken in after 125 hours. Will leave them burning in the back room for another week. |
Grannyring it's fun trying out this vintage wire. It hasn't worked out as well for me as it has for others but it's not surprising since I have audio note speakers and audio note output transformers on my amp that audio note wire might work better for me.
I am using the WE 16 as hook up wire not duelund. I hate the amount of time it takes to break this wire in so I'm going to try something different this time. I've got more Duelund wire coming as well as the solidcore 14 gauge silver wire so I'll make power cords out of both of them and burn them in that way so when I'm ready to install them inside of my amp as hook up wire the burn in time should be less. |
My findings are similar to Salectrics although I didn’t hear it immediately. I spent months with WE16 but once I rebuilt my amp on a copper/aluminum subchassis and listened to Kondo ICs and Audio note Lexus Speakers cables I preferred that synergy.
Tonight WE16 hook up wire in my Power Supply sounds cleaner than it did yesterday and so it needs more burn in time. I remember how long WE wire needed to burn in as interconnects so it should have been no surprise. There are no absolutes in hi end audio...change one thing and other elements get thrown out of balance.
Removing the bleeder resistor from my amp’s power supply has done just that. After hearing it without the bleeder with more freedom and dynamics I wouldn’t put it back in but I’ve opened up another can of worms too. I am guessing a bleeder, besides bleeding voltage from capacitors is also a form of power supply regulation. A regulated power supply has a sound just like a non regulated power supply has a different sound. This is something Salectric has talked to me about. Don’t always assume just because your electronics have a regulated power supply it’s always going to sound great.
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Steakster I also prefer stranded speaker wire over solid core. Currently happiest with Audio Note Lexus lintz after trying many. |
Signature8 when I made shielded ICs with WE Stranded 16g wire I remember ordering 1/2inch shield. It was very hard threading two conductors through the shield so you need plenty of room. |
Before I start cooking thanksgiving dinner I wanted to update this thread about using WE16gauge stranded wire as power supply to ground and b+ in my WE91a 300b amp. It has a warmth and musical tone that draws me into the music. Slightly diffuse which makes sense since it is stranded wire. That diffuse quality adds a depth and richness that is very pleasing but also a bit muddy in my system. There is a euphonic quality that also bothers me a bit. Meaning - a basic sameness to the overall sound tamber that now is present on every recording. A slight grayish color present especially in the lower Mids.
I pulled the WE16g wire ten days ago and replaced it with 14guage solid core pure silver wire. The silver wire of course makes the sound less diffuse since it is solid core and not stranded. The sound of this wire keeps changing daily so it’s too soon to render any conclusion. Today after ten days it sounds warm but not euphonic. That grayish overall tonal color of the WE wire is gone. I like the solidity of the images. I like the tonality and additional clarity. Warm and clean and musical on it’s good days and on the bad days slightly thin and overly bright. I hate breaking in wire.
what I find about WE16guage stranded wire of course only pertains to my system which with 300b tubes and Audio Note speakers tends towards the warm and textured side already. This wire is adding to the sound I already have so it would make sense that I would find the WE wire additive. We’ll see in a few more days how I ultimately find the silver wire to sound.
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Listening today to my Duelund 16guage interconnects terminated with Canare f10 RCA plugs. Without shielding. Very nice natural sound. Very pleasing. They have three weeks of burn in time in the back room. Much nicer than the WE16g wire. Warm with lots of natural detail. Very nice, keepers for sure. |
