I'm putting a plug in for GroverHuffman cables which are extremely reasonably priced based on the manual labor cost of construction and immense complexity of their design (superior shielding, superior design, low capacitance, top comparable sound quality). We are talking $400/m more or less for ICs and A/C cables and $600-$1000 for speaker cables. He should charge more but he sells direct, 30 day money back guarantee, world wide distribution and 20 years in the business. I'm one of this beta tester's on design/materials and have auditioned many top name brands Nordost, Audioquest, Transparent, High Fidelity, Wireworld, Kimber, etc. against his wires at home and at audio shows. |
My best ever system has been the Von Schweikert/VAC/Kronos at $1.4 million. The difference between a $50,000 system and it are HUGE!! The best ever system wasn’t 10-15% better, it was indescribably superior, like 200-300% better. It betters my $80,000+ system by 100%, at least and every other great system I’ve heard over the past decade at shows and stores. Sometimes the monetary difference does translate into very superior sound/music reproduction. Often it does not. Cables do matter but cost of cables don't necessarily relate to superior sound either, just like equipment and tweaks. Then there is system symbiosis, getting the equipment and tweaks to work together towards a goal desired by the listener. |
The cables for my favorite of all time system cost $400,000 and are made by Masterbuilt, a company distributed by the speaker manufacturer. They are expensive (and there were a lot of them in that system). Are they worth it? If they were necessary to achieve best ever sound system, then yes. |
A $50,000 mousetrap is overkill. It could be better but not 200-300% better than existing methods to kill mice. In audio reproduction, $50,000 to obtain 200-300% better sound is wildly appreciated if it can be done. As of now, I haven't heard a high end system which can improve that much for $50,000 unless it could be the Masterbuilt cables of $400,000 replaced with $50,000 in cables. That is reverse of what mousetrap analogy is. Then the best system I heard would be only $1,050,000. I still couldn't afford it. |
I'm looking at the VR55 Aktive. The quote at asking price included the upgraded Masterlink cable, maybe $5,000 discount to sell the speaker at the asking price or 10% of the original asking price. The Ultra 11 is substantially more as you say, but the cabling upgrade is still about 10% of the asking price. So, if I heard 10% or more sound benefit, maybe I would pay it. If I didn't find it that dramatic a difference, I wouldn't. I intend to audition the VR55 at the manufacturer sometime later this year. I will keep using my GroverHuffman cabling outside of the speaker internals.
As to whether or not Masterbuilt understands the significance and/or applies wire directionality, I have no idea. I thought that wire directionality becomes apparent after burn-in where the directionality is set after use. I maybe incorrect. My cables are labeled as to direction but that maybe for future reference when they are unplugged. |
You should try an IC or A/C cable from Grover Huffman. Let us know how it sounds in your system. It certainly sounded great at many show booths when we removed many high end (costly) cables. The problem he has selling to high enders, especially in Asia, is that they confer value upon cost. Some asked him his price and refused to try his cables because they were too "cheap." |
Have you heard the von Schweikert/VAC/Kronos/Masterbuilt system which has been raved about every audio show it's been displayed in for the past three years? You cannot comment on what you haven't heard. I am surprised that you have authoritatively stated that you have heard better systems than me. We are not audio equipment cult members. I am satisfied listening hours on end to my inferior audio system but it cannot reproduce recordings as well as the best I've heard, merely better than nearly all other systems I've heard.
3 decades ago, I heard what I thought was the finest audio system as well by a man named Michael Lane of Lane Audio. He had 250,000 78s in mint condition. He had 30+ styli and was a CalTech engineer with exotic equipment. When he played early acoustic 78s, the performers sounded as if they were in the room. Remington LPs on their inferior vinyl had nearly silent surfaces and astounding sound. He was a genius of recorded music reproduction.
Until you've heard the best systems I've heard, you'd be surprised how captivating the most elaborate and/or expensive systems can sound.
I am in a cult reproduced music listeners along with Frank, Robert and other friends proximately located as well friends Kevin Gray, Steve Hoffman, Andreas Meyer who know something about music reproduction. We are in a music cult. Equipment is a means to an end. |
Okay, well I maintain directionality of the cable labeling. Despite not knowing if my reasoning was correct, I've always done the right thing. |
I agree that many post that they are authorities. I am not an authority except in matters of real estate. Everything else I have knowledge of is based on experience and knowledge others have dispensed (a lot of reading, several hours daily for 4 decades and lectures). |
I am so very happy that I found and befriended a manufacturer of high end cables whose retail price is so reasonable that I don't have to spend 25% or 30% on cables. At $400 per cable, I've purchased all my cables from him, for both audio systems and both video systems. I use 30' speaker cables at a cost of $1800 bi-wired which I've used for over a decade. That's a great return on a cable investment. I wouldn't buy Masterbuilt cables unless my net worth doubled and I heard them one on one against my current cables. I do like the vonSchweikert speakers though with Masterbuilt internal wiring which increased their cost by several $1000. |
You tell him, Elizabeth! inna, try a Synergistic Research Black or Blue. The Red is very good at a discount price. There's a 30 day money back guarantee. The Black duplex sounded great within an hour of installation and got better over time. Even the Red killed my old hospital grade Hubbell back in 2016.
I've installed Black SRs on both audio systems and moved the Reds to my video systems, all to the better. |
"Faith based claims." You are a troll. We don’t use faith based claims, we use our hearing capacity which is more acute than measuring devices (they miss the differences when two identically measured amplifiers sound totally different and electrical measurements/theory can’t explain why).
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boxer12 The SR Red has a warmer signature than the Black. It may even sound best with SS rather than tube equipment. They both sound good newly installed unlike the black fuse which is quite bad sounding in my two systems between the 10th and 72nd hours. When broken in, the soundstage should expand and the sound will become more dynamic. |
Elizabeth, I certainly agree the SR duplexes are just ordinary commercial grade stock that have had things done to them such as adding graphene or other substances to them and jolting them with 2 million volts. Those ordinary duplexes sound ordinary (I used a "Red" duplex prior to getting the Hubbels). SR does wonders to a $6 black duplex that makes it worth the $250 to me. Furutech has higher quality materials in their duplexes. I can't say whether they sound as good or better than SR duplexes and Furutechs don't get zapped with 2 million volts. My friend uses Oyaide duplexes and they sound fine as compared to stock duplexes. |
I strongly disagree concerning the few percentage points. My main system sounds 50% as good as a $1.4 million SOTA system. However, it is already as good as nearly all the systems I've heard in stores, friends homes and audio shows. Maybe 90% as good. My system is the whole enchilada as is. Unless one has compared it to the best, it is good enough for all those audiophiles posting on Audiogon. The 12 Omega E-Mat tweak did it for me. It elevated music reproduction to the highest echelons without costing an arm and a leg. I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking to ameliorate annoying sonic problems and elevating the enjoyment so that I'm anxiously waiting to be enveloped with great music all day long.
Some or many audiophiles deem the hobby as one of striving for perfection. I feel sorry for them as that leads them to be unsatisfied most of the time. I'm using custom built amps/pre/phono/speaker cabling/turntable/cartridge/arm which are a decade+ old. The tweaks are the only newer items, mostly related to vibration and room acoustics. When I sit down to listen to music, I don't think about how I can make my system more enjoyable. I'm shocked at how wonderful the music sounds, even acoustic 78s. |
Yes, when I said 50% as good as the best I've heard, that's about twice as good or 100% better. As a teenager and in my 20's, I did not know how advanced my audio system could sound. Many people are just not aware of how great an audio system can reproduce music. In my youth, I never considered room acoustics which was a huge mistake. Audio stores didn't talk to me about it back in the 70s and 80s.
I'm 62 now and have had much experience, including as an amateur recording/mastering engineer. I know how much better (or worse) a system can sound. |
Right, my GroverHuffman cables do not use cryo treatments, hyper pure metal, various ways to align the conductors but insulation is one of the reasons his cables sound much better. His claim is mostly in the design of the cables, then the materials. It's the labor in the construction that costs the most, not the materials cost or their preparation. He charges what he considers reasonable for his efforts, not HEA prices (usually 10X higher). |
Geoff-Could be Morrow. GroverHuffman uses a mix of copper and silver but I don't recall silver coated copper, maybe aluminum coated copper (1 strand) in a return in A/C cables. His formula uses a mix of materials and gauges just as his major shield uses carbon, nickel and tungsten powders bonded to the shield. I don't have any cryoed tweaks or electronics (tubes, wires, Synergistic Reseach tweaks) in my system. |
No, I'm not superstitious concerning cryo. I just happen not to have any equipment or tweaks which use it. Synergistic Research believes in zapping cables and tweaks with "quantum tunnelling" which I think is the 2 million volt jolt instead of cryo. All my tubes are NOS which I purchased without cryo. If it works, great, I just don't have anything with it. |
