I love MLs. I have a pair of Monoliths--but they wouldn't even dream of doing Heavy Metal justice. You will love Jazz, Country (particularly vocals), Blues on them--but you will feel like the there's not much heavy in the metal with these speakers. |
I own Quests and Aerius', and they rock with the right associated gear. Bear in mind ML's are very sensitive to set up, moving them around a little can get the desired tonal blance you're looking for. Metallica, Rage Against the Machine, The Offspring, Limp Bizkit are part of my music library and sound damned fine to me. |
I think you will be disappointed, long term, with the MLs if you plan to listen to heavy metal through them. I would suggest that you do extensive listening, if you are seriousely considering them. Of course, the same is true with any speakers. |
I use ML aerius i. At lower levels (around 85db) the heavy metal sounds fine.(Tool,Metalica,Rage,Q.O.T.S.A. etc.) There is low end, but not the kind that is going to slam you into the back wall. It depends on what you are looking for. Placement is the biggest thing with these speakers. Also match them with the best upstream components you can, the bigger the amp, the better. Good luck. |
I had Aerius's for a long time about 4.5 years ago. They were my first real high performance speaker purchase. To even attempt to do big time hardrock or heavy metal you would probably want a huge power amp and a fairly small-sealed room. Even then you might find the heavier stuff a little lacking in punch. Electrostatics, to my ears, are everything that people say they are,-fast, precise, detailed, open, etc. But, it took me a while to figure out what they needed more of, weight or meat. All those wickedly fast notes kind of fly by your ears without imparting the meat of those notes. Even solo violin notes have some weight and heft to them. With extra meaty music like heavy metal it is much more apparent--the lack of slam. So, if you really favor big and krunchy tunes- you may want a moving coil loudspeaker. Just my 4 cents, all Martin logans are pretty much huge over achievers for what you pay. |
I have the aerius i, hooked to a bat vk200 and at the time I borrowed a bat 3i pre. I played ozzy and metallica and was extremely impressed. They rocked the house w/out a sub. Bat stuff just takes the martins and makes them ROCK. A friend of mine who seen ozzy many times, said it was like he was there and he said he was impressed. Good luck Pete. |
My experience is that NO e-stat can play loud enough to do "metal" justice. The one exception to this rule MIGHT be the HIGHLY efficient Innersound Eros. Then again, what one calls "metal" and "loud" are a matter of personal tastes. If you like to listen at WAY less than concert level and have a room that is not real big, you might be able to pull it off. Just don't expect to get any type of "slam" from "heavy" recordings. If you do try to push e-stat's to real high levels, you can expect to either burn out the transformers, arc or burn the panels, toast your amp, etc... This one would HAVE to be checked out first hand before i would think about making it a permanent situation.
For the record, one of my friends ( who does not listen to "metal" ) is trying to achieve "high" listening levels with his e-stats. Even bi-amping with two stereo amps rated for 400 wpc are not giving him the results that he's looking for. Sean
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Sean,You are corrent about getting away with it at more reasonable levels but I have not been able to arc the panels yet. That is with a Proceed HPA2 cranked up to around 2:00 They just start to get congested at the higher volumes. I usually do not listen any where near that level though. The preceding tests was performed with plenty of beer and hard rock. |
A thought about planars in general: I've had my Apogee Stages for years now and hate to consider replacing them if they break. That said, there are times when listening to rock that I miss the visceral impact a dynamic speaker can give. Sometimes there is no substitute for having the sound of a bass drum reproduced by a cone driver so the sound thumps you in the chest. Perhaps that's what's missing for you who are disappointed by heavy metal through Martin Logan speakers. |
I have ML Sequel II's and often play heavy metal through them and they do fine. First, I do not assume that Metal is only listened to at very high volumes. Tool and Rage and other metal sound great at medium volumes, low volumes, and high volumes as well. The ML's lack the "impact" that you will get with a cone speaker, but only at high volumes, they still sound good at other volumes and can really push the sound into the room. In terms of power, you won't need a huge amp unless you want to play your metal very loud, and then you will need over 200 watts per channel. But that's no different than any other kind of music, no matter what you want to crank, the ML's wont do it without gobs of power. |
Check out this review at hometheaterhifi.com the reviewer does some Rage Against the Machine reviewing and I think that's pretty heavy
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/masterindex_toc_main.html |
No offense Mrtrader, but Rage is not considered "heavy" or "metal" by ANY metal head that i know.
I too agree that e-stat's and planars just don't have the excursion capability that is required to do "slam" or have massive impact on the bottom end, especially at high volume. Like anything else, they have their limitations. If you can do without that, they can make some really nice sounds if properly set up. I've been thinking about a set of e-stat's for the bedroom system as of late. Sean
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If rage is not "heavy" what is? Plenty of low high impact stuff, so I think it is a good test irregardless of whether it is actually old school "heavy metal". |
Okay, I forgot one thing. Add a sub, a very good sub and problem solved. I crank my aerius i's all the time(bat vk200 amp) and sub and I'm never disappointed. I listen to metallica and ozzy(crazy train) and have not had any problems. Good luck. |
Strictly a matter of semantics and personal taste here. Rage has more of a "chunky" sound than "heavy" to me. Nor does "hard rock" or "old school" classify as "metal". "Heavy" would be bands like Paramaecium, Winter, Sorrow, Mortification, Morbid Angel, Master, Entombed, Unleashed, etc... to name just a few. It is very difficult to hear "real metal" on the radio for various reasons. The closest band to Rage's style that i could think of as being "heavy" would be Pro-Pain. Sean
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Sean, guess it is just a difference of our definition of "metal". I noticed you listed Entombed. Nice guys, toured for a month or so with them back in 92 before going on to a day job. |
Actually not with them, but on the same bus playing with another band. |
Well your probably right sean on with "old school". I don't listen to any of the bands you mentioned. And I call heavy metal ozzy, judis priest, metallica, scorpions, etc... I guess there's a huge difference in time. Wow I getting old. I talked to a friend of mine a few years younger and he said what I call heavy metal is completely different than this young generation. So to Ton1313 if you want panels you may want to audition them first with a good SS and a sub and see if you like it. Panels may not go as loud for you as they fill my needs fine. Good luck.
Pete |
I don't really need them that loud for this system, all I need is for them to play some Type O Negative and Slipknot like they should be played. I have grown tired of Metallica, (no offense) and I love some of the harder, newer metal. Type O Negative, for those who don't know, is a "metal / goth band with some really catchy songs and remakes. Thanks for all of the input, I really appreciate it. |
Sean, we have a pair of EROS (2 channel system) and a pair of ISIS (HT front speakers) and love them. What has been your experience? We listen to mostly JAZZ and vocals but we had some DEF LEPPARD (Now that's original Heavy Metal!) and it sounded *real good* (gettin' in the summer frame of mind or somethin') |
Angela, i've never heard the specific speakers that you have but do have a friend that had them. While he did like them, he complained of a rather limited "sweet spot". This is a relatively common complaint about E-stat's, so i don't think that it is a problem with their specific design. I do know that the Eros are probably the most efficient E-stat on the market and as such, would probably be the best candidate for someone that wants transient response AND volume capability. While the Eros do have a transmission line woofer design ( which is one of the VERY FEW vented designs that i like if properly done ), my only reservation about this system would be as to how well the dynamic woofer mates with the panels. Obviously, this is something that would boil down to personal taste, room acoustics and placement of the speaker.
By the way, fans of "Type O" need to find out what "Big Pete's" real thoughts and feelings on life are. You can find them on recordings of both his earlier band (Carnivore) and the earlier Type O albums BEFORE they went "girly". For the record, Pete is a nice guy in person and LOVES the ladies. I've partied with him a few times. Sean
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My ML Sequels play metal just fine. Make sure you have a powerful amp with delivers CLEAN power very quickly. |
check out newform research r645 - 91db/1w/1m |
In my experience, the Aerius I's will sound good with all types of metal, as long as your amp is up to the task.. The audio shop's never have them set up right. An ARC VT100 is not enough, a minimum of 200 high quality(ARC,ML)watt's.
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Since we've got some very different answers here, we obviously may have different standards. Since we partially covered what is "heavy", let's talk about what "loud" exactly is.
How about mentioning what SPL you consider to be "loud enough" to do metal at your LISTENING POSITION. I am talking about an extended period of "headbanging time" and not for just "one good tune". Sound must remain clean and uncompressed. Use "C" weighting and on the "slow" scale if using the RS SPL meter. This will give you a broadband average. S
Don't try to impress anyone with "I never listen this loud, BUT my system can do XXX db's" type of stuff. We're looking for REAL measurements on how you really listen. Since peaks can be quite high for momentary blasts, those DO NOT count. Please include the appr. distance from your speakers to the seat also. Sean
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should listen at 110 db's to metal. with Martin Logan's expect breakage in two minutes or less at this level. |
I forgot in my last post. Dunlavy five speakers are extremely good at very high levels. 110 decibels doesn't phase them. |
Also expect hearing damage shortly after. Then it shouldn't matter what speaker you choose. You can save a lot of money this way. |
That is so untrue, go listen to some metal and see. |
