Line Magnetic 219ia vs Mc225

You may want to rethink this. When you start in with speakers that efficient, you need to know what you're doing. Reviews are really no way to make a decision. Also, using a HT receiver as a preamp and phono stage is a really bad idea. While you are thinking about the finer points of selecting 1 of 2 amps, I'm thinking, will this system be listenable. 

You're not wrong in wanting a system like this, but you do need some experience matching components. If you already have the speakers coming, my recommendation would be to put them off in a 2nd system, and experiment. I would not buy anything to go with them unless you try it first. There's just too many things that can go wrong.

"The marantz is not a receiver/AV so to speak, but a pre. None the less, if has tons of video signal components, and will be replaced. Now as far as the sensitive cornwalls.. The most unbearable in this chain would be SS components in concern with the kt77 tweeter and ability of the horns to be shrill or overly bright with my previous SS amps.. I will be adjusting my components and sources further more. I have heard a line magnetic 216ia with lascalas recently and it was a nice sound and very listenable"

"Trim pots? On an amplifier? That's just adding another potential source of noise. It's much better to just select components that have the proper amount of gain for the rest of your system. "

"Trim pots are common in some Japanese low output amplifiers. Shindo amplifiers are some of the most quiet I have ever heard. "

"Regards to trim pots and worries of signal noise. The line magnetics are right up there with the shindo’s in performance believe it or not. Charles1, thank you for your reply. This is the sort of supportive advice i was looking to extract. I am leaning towards the 219ia."

Not every quote I list is yours. I put them in because they are relevant. I had a good reason for saying what I did in my first post. If you want to buy a bunch of components based on reviews and opinions, that's your choice. Besides, it allows some of us to get really good deals here on Audiogon.

Where I think you went wrong, was understanding what I said about the functionality of your system. To be honest, if you put all that stuff together and it just sounds bad, you're doing well. I know that's not what you want to hear because you're looking for a certain type of supportive advice, but I'm not one to pat you on the back and tell you you're doing the right thing because that's what you want to hear. There's plenty of other people who will do that for you. So I'll leave you with just one question. If you choose to answer it, you may gain some info that will help you make some decisions.

Why do you think they put trim pots on Shindo amps to begin with?

I don't think you guys ever dealt with systems that use very efficient speakers. If you have, you were extremely lucky, or had someone who knows what they are doing help. Let's say the OP buys one of the amps, gets the new speakers and uses his Marantz as a line stage and phono preamp. He sets everything up and now has a hiss that's so loud it renders the system unlistenable. Do you tell him that it wasn't covered in the review? Low output amps and high efficiency speakers are a field unto themselves. If someone came her and posted that they plan to buy a pair of Magnepan 20's and match them with a $300, 200 watt/ch, entry level receiver from Best Buy, and are just not sure if the Sony will sound better than the Pioneer, what are you going to tell them? I'm willing to bet everyone here would have the good sense to say hold on, you need to learn more about this before you make a big mistake. That's all I'm doing here. What difference would it make how the sound quality of the Sony sounds compares to the Pioneer, if the amps go into protection mode the second you hit play on the CD player.  

" Any input by those familiar with these two amps OR with push pull/SET amp comparisons in their own setups, please chime it with advice. I do appreciate it!"

This is the question that was asked. Just because I'm giving a different answer than everyone else doesn't mean I'm wrong. 

If that's the case, you're doing what you need to do, at least with the amp. The only way you can really tell is to try the components first hand. I would just keep in mind not to be too surprised if your preamp and sources may need to be adjusted. Depending on how they're setup, they may work fine. I can tell you from experience, its just not fun to be blindsided by a problem that you had no idea would even be an issue. Not only do you put a lot of  money into a system, the amount of time and research that goes into all this can be substantial. 

I don't think I'm explaining myself correctly here. Aside from my comments about how to use comments and reviews, I'm not debating sound quality. That's beyond the scope of most of my comments. I'm saying that if you don't match your components properly, the system won't work. Good or bad sound is just irrelevant. You need a system that will work.

I asked why Shindo puts gain pots on their amps. The simple answer is, they need them. With high efficiency speakers, gain has to be considered at every level. Having the right amount of gain, for each of the components in the system, is critical for it to work. First, you need basic volume control. I'm sure we all understand that with a pair of really efficient speakers and a powerful amp, you can have a situation where the volume control is way too sensitive. Turn it just a little, and you get full volume.

You guys are not considering are all the amps in the system.   

" I listen at low to moderate levels generally. Even 2 watts will have the cornwalls blaring."

You're right, and that's where the problem lies. The speakers are so efficient, its easy to forget there is a power amp in your phono cartridge, phono preamp and line stage, aside from the one that actually drives the speakers. If your speakers only need 2 watts to get them going, its technically possible to drive them with a good line stage. In practical terms, this means your speakers are the equivalent of a powerful microscope. You will hear things with these speakers that you would not normally hear with less efficient designs. And what you end up hearing, besides music, is noise. If you don't have the gain set properly for each component, you can end up with a great deal of noise to go along with your music. It can be on a scale that makes your run of the mill ground hum, that would drive most people crazy, sound minor.

Someone above mentioned you need high quality, clean sounding equipment. Absolutely correct, but with high efficiency speakers, its not enough. As clean as the Shindo amps are, they still feel the need to put global gain settings on their amps. Without the ability to adjust gain for the amp itself, you can still have noise issues regardless of how expensive and well made the amp is. Same thing for your sources and line stages. For example, I have a very good CD player. It does come with its own volume control, but the main reason I bought it, is for the global gain settings aside from the volume control. Most of the time it gets used with speakers similar to what most people here are using (efficiency wise). I have a pair of speakers I sometimes use that are 94db. If I don't open up the CD player and lower the gain, you get a hiss so loud, you can't enjoy the system. But understand, this has nothing to do with how good the CD player is. It's a 10k Stereophile A+ unit. (If I remember correctly).

So, just as an example, I know I can take my CD player and a pair of Shindo amps, connect them to your new speakers, and get the system to work properly. Will the system sound good? Maybe, but we're not at that point yet. Please don't think I'm trying to start an argument here. I just have a little experience with some of the problems you can encounter with components like this. Not everyone has a CD player that has the type of adjustments mine has. This could be a real problem for someone in that the system just won't work. When I say you need to try the equipment first, it's not for the luxury of better sound, but just for basic functionality. 

jkull,

I have an option for you. I would suggest that you call Line Magnetic and run this by them, but that would be a lot of trouble given where they are. I just happen to know the importer for LM. We've been friends for years. If you tell him how you are going to use the amp, he'll give you honest advice. A lot of what I know about this type of gear, I learned from him. He has my complete trust.

Also, LM isn't the only line that Tone imports. He has Shindo and a few other similar brands, so he may have some alternate choices that are worth looking into. 

http://www.toneimports.com/index.html
(Go to the contacts section)

" Came across this.. LM219ia with cornwalls. NO you cannot decyfer truly, the sound in this room. For all I know it is recorded on a phone. However with the bit of audible discernance that is realistic with videos like this, it appears, that this sounds quite lovely."

I was reading through this, and some of the other more recent comments, and just want to clarify. No one here is trying to talk you out of anything, or even suggesting that you are going to have a poor sounding system. Some of us are just saying to use caution when selecting gear due to certain issues that you can run into with high efficiency speakers. Nothing more than that. I think you're doing enough things right, that your chance of success is far more likely, than failure. With regards to your amp/speaker selection, I don't see any problems. While I can't guarantee a good match, the LM amp is really designed to be used with the type of speakers you're getting. If I have any concerns at all, it would be with your sources and preamp. But understand, I'm just guessing based on experience. You may have some issues, or everything may work together and sound great. I didn't want my posts to sound too negative and ruin the experience for you. 

In my last post, I brought up the LM importer. I almost never bring up people I know personally in an open discussion like this. But in this case, I think its OK because LM is in a different country where they don't speak English. Its expected that the importer may have to help some customers. If you need help with LM, he's an excellent resource and has an impeccable reputation in the industry. Since most of his business is done B to B, its unlikely that you would be able to get an opinion on his character. That's why I brought it up.

" Charles- it’s a daytrip to NY for me to sample them, so it’s hard to arrange. I may fit it in, but as it looks now, I am likely opting for the flagship 219ia."

I didn't realize you were that close. If you're making a day trip, In Living Stereo is probably the best high end store in NY, but its the smallest.  You'll definitely have time to go to another store. I would recommend you visit Audio Connection in Verona NJ. Its a short drive from where you'll be in Manhattan. AC is probably the last best audio store in the country. John R is the most competent system builder I've ever met. Its just a store you would want to see. He has a huge inventory on display, and its all set up right. You have to ask, but as far as I know, he still has an upgrade program where anything you buy can be traded back in within one year and get full credit towards another purchase. Even if you don't buy anything, its a good to have them as a future reference. Definately worth your time.