2. amps-preamps
  3. 175407-20253

Let me end the Premp/Amplifier sound debate ...

I'm old enough to remember Julian Hersch from Audio magazine and his very unscientific view that all amplifiers sounded the same once they met a certain threshold.  Now the site Audio Science Review pushes the same.

I call these views unscientific as some one with a little bit of an engineering background as well as data science and epidemiology.  I find both of these approaches limited, both in technology used and applied and by stretching the claims for measurements beyond their intention, design and proof of meaning.

Without getting too much into that, I have a very pragmatic point of view.  Listen to the following three amplifier brands:

  • Pass Labs
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

If you can't hear a difference, buy the cheapest amplifier you can.  You'll be just as happy.  However, if you can, you need to evaluate the value of the pleasure of the gear next to your pocket book and buy accordingly.  I don't think the claim that some gear is pure audio jewelry, like a fancy watch which doesn't tell better time but looks pretty.  I get that, and I've heard that.  However, rather than try to use a method from Socrates to debate an issue to the exact wrong conclusion, listen for yourself.

If you wonder if capacitors sound different, build a two way and experiment for yourself.  Doing this leaves you with a very very different perspective than those who haven't. You'll also, in both cases, learn about yourself.  Are you someone who can't hear a difference?  Are you some one who can? What if you are some one who can hear a difference and doesn't care?  That's fine.  Be true to yourself, but I find very little on earth less worthwhile than having arguments about measurements vs. sound quality and value. 

To your own self and your own ears be true.  And if that leads you to a crystal radio and piezo ear piece so be it.  In my own system, and with my own speakers I've reached these conclusions for myself and I have very little concern for those who want to argue against my experiences and choices. 

 

erik_squires

Showing 9 responses by djones51

djones51
4,947 posts
 

I don’t want an amp to have a sound and the only way I know to meet what I don’t want to hear is with amps that have great measurements like Benchmark and others.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

What good is neutral if it's not my favorite?

None for you but I thought this was about once amps meet a certain threshold you can't tell them apart.  

 

djones51
4,947 posts
 

Try going to ASR and ask who thinks Pass, Luxman and Ayre all sound the same. I can't speak for every member of any forum but from my understanding of the consensus view on ASR is not they all sound the same but that amps which measure the same and are kept within their comfortable limits would  be very hard if not impossible to tell apart in an ABX listening test. I would think the 3 you mentioned sound different, could you pick which is which in a blind test? Or simply that they sound different and you prefer a certain one and could you consistently pick your preference? 

djones51
4,947 posts
 

I'm sorry, by saying I wanted to end the debate I really meant I wanted to start one.  😈

 

Nothing wrong with that. I chimed in with my two cents but  amps aren't something I really think about much anymore. I mostly listen to active speakers and half the time don't know what amp they are using. 

djones51
4,947 posts
 

Use a DMM at the speaker terminals and a test tone to level match. It's more accurate using voltage.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

I can hear a very slight difference but listening to Youtube doesn’t prove anything. The OP can speak for himself but my position is different amps that measure close and are not driven outside their limits would be very hard if not impossible to tell apart. Listening to your tracks if I didn’t know which was which I couldn’t tell the tube from the SS. You should not have labeled them and I doubt these 2 amps measure similar. 

djones51
4,947 posts
 

AudioScienceReview does not say that all amplifiers sound the same or that they measure the same.

I said this on my first post but... what they say is amps that measure similar numbers driven within their comfort zone would be hard if not impossible to tell apart in blind listening tests. That is not saying every amp sounds the same. I’ve heard differences in amps but I haven’t under  these basic conditions.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

If you haven't used any control for bias then your subjective opinion is only useful for you , it tells me nothing nor furthers our understanding.

djones51
4,947 posts
 

There is no debate. Amplifiers have been commodities for years. They can be built as tone controls but...

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