Krell K-300i (with its optional DAC) vs. McIntosh MA7200 (with DA1) vs. ? (including DAC)


A few weeks ago, a friend and I were fortunate enough to be parked in a nice sound room with a MAC MA8900 and a pair of Sonus Faber towers. I'm assuming the MA7200 is the same as the MA8900 without the tone control knobs. Unfortunately, I don't remember which Sonus Faber. I think they were something in the Sonetto line. I wasn't paying close attention to this kind of stuff because I was there for a demo of the Degritter. The sales person was nice enough to park us in this room and hand us an IPAD so we could entertain ourselves by streaming tunes on Tidal while waiting for several of my records to be cleaned. It was a slow day at this shop. I have no idea what streamer was in the chain. This was certainly a great way to spend about an hour, so so, waiting. Since then, I've had dangerous vicarious thoughts about the possibility of upgrading my MAC MA5200 because what we heard that day was outstanding! The detail, imaging, separation, soundstage and frequency response were absolutely wonderful! Although I love my MAC, I'm always open to any and all alternatives when it comes to stereo toys. I think most audiophiles want the best sound they can afford and I'm not one who is wedded to one brand or another. One integrated in the $8,000 to $9,000 range that's getting a fair amount of good press, these days, is the Krell K-300i. I absolutely adored the old Krell amps I heard back in the late 1980's through the mid 1990's but haven't listened to any since. I've also read a fair amount of good reviews on Hegel integrated amps. About a year ago, I spent some serious seat-time with a Simaudio Moon integrated that really impressed me and, about 4 years ago, a Musical Fidelity integrated that impressed me, as well. Since I'm looking for excuses to avoid home chores today, I thought I'd throw this question out for fun.

So, what say ye? If you had $8,000 to $9,000 to play with, what integrated amp would you go with? I listen exclusively to vinyl and CD. TT is a MoFi Ultradeck with Mastertracker. CD is Marantz CD6005 and speakers are Revel Performa3 F206. I know upgrading these, likely the speakers as a next step, would be a logical progression. This is why I mentioned this is "dangerous" and "vicarious" thinking! Frankly, in order for me to seriously entertain a move like this, my ears would have to convince me that this would be an appreciable improvement in fidelity with the speakers I have now for a few years, or so, before the next move. I'm skeptical of anything other than a subtle improvement, at best, and for this kind of dough it would have to be more than subtle. There is one high-end shop within reasonable distance that deals McIntosh and Revel. I could likely get a reasonably good sense there of what an MA7200 would do with a pair of F206 but all the other shops near me do not deal Revel and the other amps I mentioned. So, this would require more sophisticated critical listening and educated guessing. Just curious what you folks think and especially curious if any of you have done serious A/B seat-time with any of the integrated amps I mentioned and/or upgraded from an MA5200.

P.S. I'm really not interested in the opinions of equipment bashers or otherwise pompous, arrogant, self-involved humanoids who only want to prove they're the next best thing since sliced bread and prophylactics. Critical analysis is fine and welcomed. This can and should be done intelligently and respectfully. If your aim is to crow about your equipment and choices at the expense of others, please do it someplace else.
oldaudiophile

Showing 6 responses by oldaudiophile

You're funny! I should have added to my P.S. that humor is very much appreciated, as well! Thanks!

Any reason why that Krell over the others? That's a lot of Class A power up front with heat sinks that seem on the small side. I would assume sweet sound but I'm wondering how hot it would get. 
@bigtex22, CONGRATS! My friend just informed me the speakers we were listening to that day were Sonus Faber Olympica Nova III. I'm sure once you break in your new playmates the sound will be just sublime! I'm just as sure you'll have a heck of a lot of fun getting there, as well! ENJOY! Have no idea how much break-in your new Sonus might need but I wouldn't worry about a thing for the first 30 or 40 hours, or so. The MAC will sound great right out of the box and will only improve in time.

Curious!  The day my friend and I heard the MAC MA8900/Sonus Faber Olympica Nova III pairing, the shop had the speakers way out into the room... guessing probably a good 8 feet or more from the wall behind them... and separated about 8 feet or, I would guess. Guessing the sweet spot was 7'... maybe 8'? Again, since I wasn't shopping, I wasn't paying attention, just having fun!  They were also toed into the sweet spot just a little; not much. Baffles were pointed just past the listerners' ears. Is this anyway near the way you're thinking of setting yours up in your sound room? There's no way I could do that in my living room. I would be relegated to finding something that could perform well under more conventional placement considerations. One pair I've read about that can do that are the Stenheim Alumine III but those babies are mucho dinero! Not something I would seriously consider unless I won the lottery. I've read the Ohm Walsh Tall can do that, too, but they get pretty big as you go up the line. Even though my living room is 14' X 23' with a 9' ceiling, I can only accommodate slender speakers (e.g. no more than 10" or 11" wide, or so) that perform well no more than around 3' from the wall behind them (i.e. wall to baffles) and separated no more than around 6' to 7' from each other. This is one reason why I think my living room has me kind of hemmed in with regard to possible future upgrades and why I think the system I have now just may be optimized for the physical placement limitations of my sound room. Also, why I'm skeptical how much of a significant fidelity improvement I'd really get upgrading to an MA7200 without upgrading speakers and more worried, still, how much speakers who could perform well under placement limitations like that would cost. It's kind of a Catch 22 kinda thing. Rearranging the living room is not an option for many reasons I won't go into here. In the next life, I'll build or buy a house either with a dedicated sound/entertainment room or a larger living room that can accommodate more options. C'est la vie!

Thanks, everyone, for your input! Much appreciated!
@yyzsantabarbara, thanks for that review! I had already read it. Your tip compelled me to read it again. Much appreciated!
@bigtex22, yes; by all means, let us know how you make out with speaker placement after everything is seasoned or broken-in. That would certainly be useful information! I'd especially be interested in whether or not you felt the need to spike them or do anything else other than just placement.

ENJOY!  
@verdantaudio, yes, that is certainly solid advice! I’m using the Marantz as a transport now with the MAC’s DA1 DAC (Pangea interconnects). What I’m finding is the DA1 might be just a hair "better" than the Marantz (e.g. tiny bit more bass extension... smoother frequency response overall... ?). However, a more objective pair of ears (i.e. my wife) really doesn’t notice any difference. Fact of the matter is, I listen more to vinyl than CD. Regardless, any suggestions for an external DAC? I’ve read some about Chord DAC’s.

I’ve spent quality time with Focal Aria 926 and 936, powered by my amp and amplification similar to it. I loved the 936!

I’ve done a fair amount of reading on Hegel amps and read some reviews by professionals my ears tend to agree with but I’ve never heard any. Certainly can’t argue with "clean, clear, accurate and powerful", provided something like this is properly paired with appropriate speakers! For example, I’ve always really, really liked Dynaudio speakers and have always been very impressed by them. However, I’ve always found other speakers I enjoyed just a tad more in the final result. I think my ears tend to find the Dynaudio sound signature just too darned accurate & flat (good flat) and there is certainly nothing wrong with that! Quite the opposite, as a matter or fact. There’s a lot right with that! However, my ears can never seem to fall in love with them. My ears are so fickle!

Not familiar with AVM amps and haven’t done much, if any, reading about them. Also never heard of Perlisten speakers. You’ve given me some homework. I’ll have to check this out. Thanks!
@james633, NICE TOYS! Thanks for the feedback & guidance! Always  appreciated!

Although my sound room (i.e. living room) is fairly good size (i.e. 14' X 23'), for reasons I won't bore you with here, I'm forced to contend with somewhat challenging placement issues. Basically, my system is set up at on end of that space, which is really about 14' X 9' with a right channel corner placement issue and a left channel with a rather large opening behind it (4') to the kitchen/dinning room. It's kind of an open floor plan in a post & beam log home. Good acoustics but sandwiched space. Re-arranging the entire living room would be the way to go but that's not an option. As such, I can't accommodate big speakers or speakers that need to be placed far out into the room (e.g. no more than about 2.5' to 3' from wall behind to baffle) or separated by more than 6 or 7 feet, max. Also, they'd have to be skinny (e.g. no wider than about 9 to 11 inches, max).  The speakers I've read about sophisticated enough to handle this cost about as much as a compact car. In my next life, I'll buy or build a home with a more flexible sound room or man cave.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the F206 lacking bass extension and response, at least compared to the 18 different pairs of speakers I did serious seat-time with for that upgrade. I haven't measured but, in my room, I'm confident I'm getting an honest 40 Hz and likely a little more. There were speakers I demoed that were noticeably a bit "better" but all of them either needed more juice than my MAC MA5200 and/or were more expensive. I'm certain my room acoustics and most of the music I like to listen are why I'm so satisfied with the F206. They actually sound better in my room than they did in a very good sound room at the audio shop I demoed them in. A friend I was with, at the time, agrees and he is a bona fide multi-channel home theater, self-admitted bass head. I've got my F206 32" from a sheetrock wall in back of them to their baffles and separated by just under 6' (on-center driver to driver).  That's not optimum, I know, but the best I can do in my room. If I listened to a lot more bass-heavy material and had room for a sub or a multi-channel home theater system, I'm sure I'd agree with you about their bass response. When it comes to that, I'm much less fond of reach and much more partial to accuracy and tightness. Judging from the equipment you have, I'm guessing your are, too. During my last speaker shopping expedition, the best I heard was a pair of traded in Aerial Acoustics 6T powered by a MAC MC275 stack. A pair of Triangle Australe EZ powered by the same MAC stack impressed, as well, but I'm convinced there was something wrong with those trade-ins because of how they dramatically failed with male and female vocals. With musical instruments, they were fantastic! With vocals, however,... well, there just had to be something wrong with that pair. Even the sales person admitted he heard it, too. He tried playing with room placement but nothing helped. Aerial Acoustics 6T or, better yet, the 7t, would be an interesting consideration but not with a MAC MA5200. Those babies just need more juice to shine.   

I hear what you're saying about just an amp upgrade yielding only subtle improvement and suspect you are absolutely right about this. Hence, my reticence in this regard.

With respect to a speaker upgrade with the amplification I have now AND the room placement constraints I have to contend with, those I've read about that could possibly deliver the goods cost about as much as an average compact car.

I have a question for you about your 228be. Too big for my room but I'm interested in Beryllium tweeters. Where is the sweet spot or listening position in your sound room? Specifically, how much empty space is there behind it, if any. I've never done serious seat-time with Beryllium tweeters and I'm wondering if they might, in any way, sound like AMT designs. In my experience, going as far back as the original ESS AMT, speakers with AMT tweeters sound best when the sweet spot has plenty of empty space behind it (e.g. at least 6' and, preferably, more). Otherwise, they can become quickly fatiguing. This is yet another room placement issue I have to deal with. My sweet spot, the couch, puts my ears 9' away from the speakers, around 36 to 38 inches off the floor, depending upon how much I slouch, and there is a 7" solid log wall right behind it. Sorry to get so technical but that's the kind of mind I have. It's a curse!