Krell amps that I had two 100watt amps...my experience is that I learned I had much nicer looking knees then I thought. I was always in shorts from the unbearable heat. It was like the oxygen was being sucked out of the room..will never go back to that again. |
I had a KSA250 and FPB700cx in a 13x22 and loved the bass in the 250 but the heat/hydro without a cable even hooked up was not for me.The 700 had thin bass and that was a huge letdown for me.I donnot mind heat/hydro when 110db is flowing through the room but not 12amps/1440watts at idle.I used a HTS 7.1/SACD Standard combo with the amps with great results. |
Mclsound,
Man I can understand the heat issue with the KSA250 standing still or operating, The newer amps don't have "quite" the heat issue like that series and prior (unless your rocking out at high decibels for extended periods of time). My EVO302 gives off a little more heat but nothing like the old series -- My fbp-200c stays pretty cool as does my KSA-100S.
I'am curious and one of my points of this discussion was to see what equipment, the size room and the decibels people are pushing (thats why I stated my basic parameters for comparison sake). It seems in all the post everywhere -- everyone has a blanket statement one way or the other. I'am not looking for better amp or better sounding or blown away but good usable info.
I appreciate your input -- now with the monster 700cx do you feel the bass slam was absent in relation to volume (lower volume no slam until you hit a certain volume). I always felt huge wattage amps (fine for huge rooms and high volume - I'am not talking about which amp is better, because I feel Krell amps are great sounding amps at any wattage) People always state oh extra headroom is always better (example evo 900 mono versus FBP200c in the same size room around the same decibels as originally stated will always sound "Better" -- I don't know Loud is loud) -- well I have had huge amps and I prefer the 100 to 300 watt amps -- I have never been able to MAX out a Krell even standing down the street and I am a very logical guy -- My KSA-100s -- I have maxed out -- for a very short period of time(all lights on) but it was well over 110 decibels standing in a adjoining room. (Usually I listen at the 2 light level (50watts?)(50 to 80 decibels)-- 3 lights is loud (75 watts?) -- 4 lights (100watts?)
-- so when you had the 700cx do you feel you ever came close to "making it sound reasonable" without it being loud or was there always a thin bass presence at reasonable sound levels (75 to 90 decibels)? (I know the 700cx has a lot of gusto)
What amp do you prefer as far as wattage is concerned because, face it Krell is one of the best and you have heard several versions for comparisions and I think you get what I'am trying to discuss and why.
I appreciate you giving out the info to everyone and being honest man.
Thanks,
Scoutdog |
Hi Scoutdog
I like to share a good set of songs ,say 6-7 in a row,and build up from a nice mellow start(to adapt to the volume/soundstage/dynamics) and as each new song comes in the volume increases slowly to build to a great finish to end the set.I have found one brand(Krell) that actually gives me a great bass.I just found that the KSA had a better bass for my likings.Even at high clean volumes for a great finish to a set,the 700 just board me.It did what I had read in the past...Fatigued me.And for the cost I thought I would try a KSA300s,so I have put in a wanted ad for one.
I will say that the 700 will find your speakers limits if you want to know it...Again this is for a set of music,not a all night concert at 120db. |
Thanks Mclsound for the input,
I brought this question back on the table just to hear some more input -- People make some statements about the size of there amps and why 600 watts is better than 400 watts but they never say the critical question of how loud do you listen to your setup (regular average)-- because 75 to 80 db or 100 db is the same whether your in your room or in australia -- using 900 watt amps or 100 watt amps. What are your setting to make statements like "Better" "blown away" a/b comparisions -- It doesn't matter about difficult speakers or the load, or cables -- Room size and volume will tell you just about everything you need to know about someones setup (Quality gear of course)-- so lets put it on the table. (Note: I cannot for the life of me get my evo302 to max out in a 15 x 20 ft room - let alone my FBP 200c, so what volume are you 400 to 600 watt guys listening to -- headroom is not an excuse its another forum) -- Lets stir it up a little -- don't make me name names (ha) |
Well, Scoutdog you saw my other post. All of my speakers like to get loud and sound best that way,wasn't my intension just like the MBL's and B&W 801N's and they all like to rock. The issues with the speakers in my fairly large room are different, the MBL's are only 78db efficient and need a lot of amperage to bend those reeds, the B&W's are like 90 db efficient but they dip to like 2.5 ohms or something in the bass. My comment about the FPB 350mc running out of steam( about 475-485 watts@8 ohms or about 900 actually into 4 ohms) is all about cranking up the MBL's to over 100+db. At this point they will start to compress some but do I want to go any louder...No. My new room/ new house is pretty big like 25 by 40, I have not set up the MBL's yet just have the 801's in there, 801N are not a speaker for low listening levels, it does take some volume for them to wake up.
Not to be a jerk or anything, hopefully I can be helpful here. The Krell FPB amps, I don't know what it is about the 200 and 250 amps but they do not share the same sound quality with the larger amps. When the 250 is upgraded to the "x" stays and gets it's 350 status (same identical output really) they do sound better. But not as goos as the original 350 or "x" version the 450. Another thing to consider, the stereo 650 or700 are bridged amps and do not have the same sound to me anyway as the Mono amps. I own both Mono and Stereo FPB's and the Mono amps are really a lot better. At theMono amps sound stage is much better, wider deeper and so on. The FPB 650-750 both put out about 950 watts or better into 8 ohms, there is no increase in power with the 750, they are equal to the few EVO 900 at least in power. The larger mono amps generally do sound better than the smaller amps, more robust output stage and huge power supply. I know many exaggerate a lot on here but the mono amps is where it's at. The most lovable amp to me is the FPB 350m, the 350 mc and the best is the 450mcX all of which are the same amp with improved circuits. That is love, the best sounding without a doubt is the FPB 750mcX, very comparable to the EVO 900. Wonderful like from god himself bass, great lifelike midrange and a great treble too. I don't know of any amp better than these in the bass, at 5 watts or 500. I swear those big guns could push bass out of a horn tweeter if they had to, lol.
Just my 2 cents, iPads are not good on long emails...
Rob
Rob |
Hey Rob,
Great Conversation -- Very informative and you speak from experience! You nailed my idea of providing good information and explained it quite well and backed it up with your very "logical" knowledge-- I understand your why's (and correctly so) -- on your room size, and speakers(OHMs/Imp/effeciency)Now I know where your coming from - thank you. -- Great system in a great room -- ROCK ON!
Thanks for sharing your Info with all of us --
Ronnie
Scoutdog |
Ronnie,
Thank you for the kind words. Sorry everyone for the spelling, it was very late at night and my iPad kept changing my wording. Too bad the iPad spelling correction does not learn.
I'm thinking seriously about picking up a pair of Sophia 2's but not sure yet? Anyone have any opinions on them?
Rob |
Good stuff in this thread. Long time FPB 600c owner and I've been contemplating an amp change for a bit now. It just seems like every time I find something I think could be a good fit I come home and warm up the big Krell and it just sings. I just can't seem to find the amp that warrants pulling the trigger. The new big Krells are so pricey and the gain from a move does not seem worth it. I have thought of a subtle jump to a 750cx. The only amps that I am seriously considering now are the Spectral DMA 360's which could happen. Speakers are Maxx II. Any suggestions? Don't mean to get off topic but seems there are some knowledgeable Krell folks here... |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves
At low levels like that you might be better off with a cheap integrated with a loudness button. |
DDD1--
I was hoping for better constructive comments....So lets hear what you have to offer besides what you have already offered (not good enough - a different conversation).
Please let us know what you consider "MANLY" volume without the loudness button....in your room with your equipment -- really simple idea even a cheap integrated....gets the concept!
Remember your talking to intelligent people so show us more of your considerable knowledge of how its suppose to be done in your music world!
For all us cheap integrateds with loudness buttons,
We still Rock
Scoutdog |
Richard,
you obviously like the Krells my suggestion would be give a MONO pair a try, trust me you will love it. You will hear the difference right away, the sound-stage will open up more, a lot more depth and height too. I would just try the modrange or high end FPB MONO's.
FPB250M, FPB250MC, FPB350MCX = Same amp, low series, sounds ok...
FPB350M, FPB350MC, FPB450MCX = Same Amp, mid series, sounds Excellent, Love these amps!
FPB650M, FPB650MC, FPB750MCX = Same amps, top of the range, Sounds even better!
I did just order a set of FPB 750MCX's but honestly I really love the FPB350M series they sound fantastic. I was very surprised when I first played them and removed my FPB stereo amp, its a big difference, you wont regret it.
I have no idea what that gentleman is chatting about with the integrated and loudness button? I don't think an FBI has a loudness button? To me, every Krell I have heard plays just as well at low levels as it does at high levels, very little difference, these are high bandwidth, constant voltage source amps. I think speakers make a bigger difference on that subject?
Let us know what you decide?
Rob |
Hello
I have a Krell KSA-80B--Just Recapped and rebuilt at the factory--great job--driving a pair of One Ohm Apogee Scintillas time aligned. Room is 12x18, carpet on floor, treatment behind speakers; fed from Naim NDX Streamer with
fa Naim Unti Core thru a Townshend DC47 Audio Transformer/volume control. Favs are Country, Credence Clearwater, James Taylor, Willie Nelson, Kenny Rodgers, Chris Stapleton Eric Clapton, etc--occasional classic. Back of room feeds down a stairway. The sound is sublime, musical, engaging. Vocals, guitar and piano are close to real. My wife even listens to music on it. Heat not a problem, play at any volume I want and can stand. This amp is rated at 80 watts into 8 ohms, but into 1 ohm, it will dump 640 without breaking a sweat. Most of the time its on idle. |
