Hi adri2005 , who and where did an iec for you, krell would not do it, Thankyou. |
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Good morning, I have a CX-700, from years ago! of the best of the brand! I had him put an IEC 20amp connector on the back, to be able to use dedicated powercord! I am very surprised that with these you have not heard any improvement, I had more than 10 Krell amps and they all benefited a lot from them! with respect to the CX-700 I got the best sonic benefits with the Purist Limited Edition, with Oyaide M1 / F1, my most emphasized recommendation towards them!!
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To Wadia150: Unless you are deaf, you can easily hear the difference that good cables make, whether you change it "instantly" or over a period of time. The result with good power cords, interconnects, and speaker connectors can be easily heard in a decent system. You either have never tried good cables, or have a system so lofi that you can't hear a difference when you do try. And by the way, spend some money on some English and or spelling lessons. You'll be way happier.
Hey Audiolabyrinth, I am not sure of the actual price of the cables I'm using, as most were picked up as used or demo pieces. New they were in the $2-3k range I think.
The Transparent Power Isolator made a BIG difference in the sound. Bigger and deeper sound stage, and a blacker background.
Good listening,
Mike |
Audiolabyrinth,
where are you in regard to your original post? I would not mess w/ that stock cord on the Krell. It must be pretty good for Krell to suggest not changing it out for an IEC.
On the flip side, for your other gear that does have an IEC, check out Stage III Concepts, power cords, offered by Aaudio Imports. Should you have any questions, let me know. |
Hi,, Your post needs to be on the thread, cables more hype than value!, there will be alot of disagreement there for you!, this thread knows the difference cables will do to any cost componet!, the unfortunate thing here is everyone on this thread has very,very, exspensive componets they are useing high-end cords and cables on!, they are very happy, and have no regrets! |
Wow I can't believe you can hear a difference in wire. Amazing. Are you doing an instant switch if not no way you can tell. You could own more systems maybe a bedroom system. I feel sorry for he guys that you are getting to waiste there mony on after market cords. Think of all the miles of wire in front of your 2 k power cord. Look up the meaning of insanity. |
Have you lost your mind you cannot change electrons. Wire cannot change the sound of a cheap CD player or amp. Bough if you want to hear a difference you will. Have you ever heard of Allan Shawg o to Harbeths forum learn about wire so you won't go broke. OMG!!! Insane |
interesting Mrvordo, thankyou for your response, what does all of this retail for each? |
Currently I have a PLMM (w/MM2) on the pre, and a PLS (w/MM) between the wall and the power conditioner. I have a Transparent Power Isolator 4 on the way and will let you know how it compares to the PS Audio Premier that I'm now using.
I also use Transparent Ultra XL speaker cables. |
What is the model Transparent power cables all of you have? |
@ Pantera6, Hi, Your last post was a great write!, I believe I said Krell did not recommend putting an IEC socket on my amp,But they did not say they could not do it, and they did not say that would not do it if I asked them to, why don'nt you get Krell or sombody else put a IEC socket on the amp, I know Krell can do it to cosmetically great effect!, I am finally sold that a super high quality power cord can improve the sound of my amp, I did buy a 1-year old Taralabs cobalt power cord with oyaide plugs last june the 28th, it is 3ft long, this power cord in a 6ft version is retail $5,450.00,, this would do the trick for sure if I can get enough balls to try it on my amp, the power cord is 20amp with 20 plugs, MRvordo did it with his fpb 600 he has now with no issues, I do have a dedicated circuit and electrical cord just for the amp now, what you did with your power, I did in 1997, yes!, It improves Krell amps substanially, The difference I did however, was to run a very short ground to earth, with a real copper ground rod, less than 6ft was how long the ground was, talking about a very huge improvement!, I'm still working on that here thou, warning, when you use a dedicated ground like this, BTW, Krell factory does the same thing, It will not flip your breaker if you incure an issue!, thats the drawback!, If you are like me, I unplug the whole system when I am not useing it eanyway!, there is no worrys this way, LOL!, Pantera6, My amp is still at Krell now, we have 6 weeks and she will be home, Krell has been done with the amp, They were kind enough for us to make payments on the amp being totally renewed inside and out, at cost no object!, I wanted to have the countrys very few, if eany?, Brand new FPB 700CX amp!, Krell guranteed this to be brand new in every way, Krell said, with what they have available now to go in the amp, Its likly It will sound alot better after the break in of 600 hours than it ever did in the amps life time, mmm, needless to say, I was Thrilled to be told that!,BTW, I love your user name, It reminds me of one of my all time favorite metal bands, Pantera!, The thing is, I could get Krell to do the IEC socket there at their factory, I do not believe we can afford it, I know that sounds awfull funny!, But we are paying them $3,157.38 now!, I will have a little over $11,000.00 in this amp!, I know I will never get my money back out of it, we plan to use it one way or another on one of our systems untill it dies!, currently, its on the main system for the next few years, untill I can get my hands on a Dan D Agistino amp!, this Krell 700cx was made in 2005, It was not even needing an overhaul yet, thats ok, we will have a new one, I am sorry fellas, I am very proud of that! cheers. |
Agreed. I'm still adding Transparent PC's to the rest of my system with good effect. I now have Transparent between the wall and amp, between the wall and my power conditioner (which powers my source components), and between the power conditioner and my pre. Although a lower level cord is currently on the pre, I want to get a higher level cord for the pre and also add one to my phono amp. |
Audiolabyrinth -
look into Transparent PC. |
Audiolabyrinth, as you stated, my original preference was installing an IEC socket on the back of the 300CX, but the (metal) work involved in just cutting out the opening was beyond the tools I had on hand (the rear panel is about ¼ in thick)! The other alternative I considered is getting a back panel off an old FPB300, which has an IEC socket, but there are some panel layout differences, as my 300CX has cast inputs, etc. It was much easier to just wire in a male IEC socket to the end of the captive cord just to see if there was a material and beneficial difference to the sound.
What I cant explain (and will not attempt to) is my experience of the improvements brought by using a (suitable i.e. Shunyata Anaconda CX in my case) aftermarket cord in-between the wall and the 300CXs captive cord (regardless of knowledge to the contrary). In my system and room, the improvements were not subtle and outweighed any drawbacks of the additional length of running the 9ft (?) captive cord plugged into a 6ft. aftermarket cord. Hence my interest to see if anyone else with a captive corded FPB would find similar results by replicating what I did.
I should probably also mention that the wall socket I plug the 300CX (and my other audio equipment) into are PS Audio Power Point Premiers with an Oyaide WPC-Z Carbon Fiber faceplate and aluminium frame, connected directly to an isolated circuit breaker with high current, shielded in-wall wiring between the power socket and the fuse box. Ive also got three-phase power in my house, with one phase purely dedicated to my music room. You would not think that these things make a difference (and perhaps not everyone may hear an improvement), but my experience is that they are cumulative and have (specifically) taken the sound of my Krell FPB300CX to another level! (I do have another standard wall socket next to the Power Point Premiers, connected to the same point in the fuse box, where I can easily plug in and hear the changes). Hope this gives you a bit more insight into my audio journey with the Krell FPB - Happy Listening! |
@ Pantera6, that would be a 15ft power cord in my case, my captive cord is 9ft long. |
@ Pantera6, Hi, Thats interesting post!, you are saying you kept the stock power cord on the unit, and added a female plug at the end and used a aftermarket power cord?, wow!, thats a very long power cord, Why did'nt you put an iec connector on the amp, and then use the after market power cord straight from the amp to the wall receptical?, I asked Krell about putting an Iec on the amp, of course they said they did not recommend that because of my amp being a 700cx, I really would love to use my Taralabs cobalt power cord, that has oyaide plugs from the Tara factory, on this amp, My captive power cord on my Krell is a 30 amp cord, I do not believe their is a 30 amp after market power cord?, your post is very informative!, cheers. |
There are a couple of corrections I wish to make in my post above: What I meant to say was "...and rewired a "male" C15 IEC adaptor to the end of the 300cx's captive cord...I then plugged in my Shunyata Research King Cobra CX (which is terminated with a C15 "female" IEC adaptor) into the Krell's captive cord.".
Also, It doesn't appear that C19 IEC adapters are easily found in 30A versions, but there are 250VAC 20A versions available. |
Hi Audiolabryinth ,
I thought I'd share with you my experience using an aftermarket power cord with my Krell FPB300cx. As you know, the Krell CX line comes with a captive power cord set-up. Purely out of inquisitiveness, I cut the wall plug off the 300cx's captive cord and rewired a male C15 IEC adaptor to the end of the 300cx's captive cord (still keeping the same length of the captive cord - in case I needed to re-install the wall plug back). I then plugged in my Shunyata Research King Cobra CX (which is terminated with a C15 male IEC adaptor) into the Krell's captive cord.
To me, the improvements were so "significant" that I have been running this set-up for the last three years. In my experience, the improvements were across the frequency spectrum - even more low end slam (yes, even for a Krell!), smoother mid-range and highs. However, I would say the most significant improvement was a subjective "opening up" of this fine amplifier to become (finally) unrestrained! The translated effect of this was a more "holographic" soundstage (in my listening room). With the Shunyata King Cobra CX, the 300cx now "breathes" more freely and has a feeling of unreserved power - I feel just as a Krell should be!
I should also mention that I did some extended trialling of several other after market power cords on the 300cx (all of which I also own) including a Wireworld Aurora, PS Audio Statement (the original version) and a Shunyata Anaconda CX.
Of all these, the most synergistic match (for my system) was the Shunyata King Cobra CX on the Krell. Each of the fore mentioned power cords made a noticeable difference to the sound of the 300cx (and in all cases were an improvement over plugging in the 300CX's captive cord directly into the wall socket).
Given your 700CX's power draw, if you ever decide to experiment by wiring a male IEC adaptor into your captive cord, (the usual disclaimers/caveats apply - that it's at your own risk and that you understand wiring for correct polarity, etc.) I would strongly suggest a C19 IEC adaptor (which is a 30A high current version) and an equivalent high-current terminated aftermarket power cord of your choice.
I would be interested to hear your (or any other Agon members experiences) if you ever decide to take this route on a Krell FPB series amp (with a captive power cord)!
All the best! |
@ Mrvordo, Hi, I have a ways to go on building my system, you already have a magnificent system and room, congrats!, you have helped me here with this power set-up, thankyou very much, cheers to you. |
Mrvordo, Are you there, you must be listening to some music, when you get a chance, get back to me, Happy listening. |
The Phantom III is only $5500, but it does not have CAST, and I got it without the digital section. Since my FPB600 doesn't have a CAST input, I figured I could go that route without losing a lot. For your system the Phantom I or II, would be what I would look at, or a 202, maybe. The III can be had with a Digital section which I did not get. I listen mostly to vinyl and the digital section can be added at any time. So I decided to wait on that to keep costs down.
From what I understand, the Esoteric can't be beat, but I think it may be the most expensive out there too. If it were me, I would be spending that money on a Phono/Pre/Cables instead of a big player, but I understand that everyone's tastes are different. I just almost always prefer vinyl.
Sounds like you are building a truly magnificent system. Hope it all works out for you.
Good listening,
Mike |
Mrvordo, that is cool, over the top that you built your own cross overs!, sad news here, I do not have a pre-amp period!, I use digital source direct to amp, just started building this system in april, 2012,,,, I may or may not go to a pre-amp, since 1997 I have been running the high-end this way!, source to amp, very spooky clear, I love analog, to get the matching i/cs and a pre-amp, and phono pre, and a phono cable, mmmm that would be $60,000.00 for real for me, can not afford that now, my interconnect retailed for $15,000.00 a meter, can you imagine buying two more pairs of them and everything else that I listed, I would need a $10,000.00 pre-amp or more to better the source direct to amp, in due time I may go this route, buying a piece at a time,LOL!, not today, I just sent the Krell 700cx to krell to be totally renewed in and out, it was only 8 years old,It was already in mint condition when I bought it used, april, 2012, thats costing us $3,157.00 to do this, I have been spending my lifes money totally on this system as it is, every 3 to 4 months, something else, I just bought the Taralabs cobalt power cord with oyaide plugs june the 28th, 2013,, it retails for $5,450.00 for 6 foot, I will put that on the source, I wanted to use it on the Krell, the krell has a captive carrol 3/1 30 amp power cord on it, from the factory, they made the cx line like that, I asked krell about changing that out to iec, they did not recommend that at all!,, how do you like the phantom 3?, I have conterplated going to a krell pre-amp!, I like tube sound alot to, thats my sources I always use, currently I have a Ayon 2s player, I may keep this, if I do I will use it on a second system, it has the best transport I have owned, I have started looking to go even Higher end than the player I have now, This player was $6,350.00, I want to see what alot more money can do or not do, this search will take a while, I have got four brands on my list so far, Ayon, Esoteric, Aesthetix,vincent.., some of these players have analog pre-amps built in the cd player!, this also keeps cable cost down, you know what I mean?, I am very interested in a few pre-amps to, Krell is defiantly one of them, How much was the phantom 3 ?, cheers. |
Audiolabyrinth, thanks for the kind words. It's been a long journey to this point, and almost everything along the way was purchased used. The only exception is my TT/arm/cartridge, which were all purchased new. Also my latest Krell Phantom III was purchased new, and was the first new pre for me since the 1970's when I had a db Systems 1A, I think it was.
This system, with the custom Xovers which I built for my Diva's, is the first time that I have felt like I have an awesome system instead of just a good system. I'm listening now to a Simply Vinyl copy of "Tommy" and it's sort of like listening to it for the first time, even though I've had a copy since it was release in the 60's. It's amazing how much information is in those tiny grooves, and how much can be lost without a truly highly resolving system, yet still be enjoyable. But when you start getting most of what's there out of the disc, it's like another world.
What's your system like? Do you use a Krell pre with your 700's? I've found that the Krell pre and amp combination has a synergy that makes them better together than used alone in a system. |
All,
I am looking to get into a Krell processor & CD/SACD player. From the owners, keep the cable/cord suggestions coming. |
@ mrvordo, Man-o-man, what a killer set-up you have, the room, the system, etc..awsome to say the least, congrats are in full order here! |
Check out my virtual system to see pics and description, and let me now how it goes. I listen a lot less this time of year, so I don't get to enjoy my system as much as I do in the cooler months. The big Krell just puts out a bit too much heat, and I find myself outside more too.
Good Listening,
Mike |
Hi Mrvordo, I will take your advice on getting a good outlet first, more than 5% up-grade in sound is great news, I believe you, I did not know the result in doing this would yield such great results, You have been alot of help, thankyou, I still like to talk more with you, tell me of your system, cheers. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
For some reason my last post hasn't shown up, so this might end up showing up twice.
I've been using the 30A breaker for 6-8 months, and have not see or felt any problems. Power Port did get mildly warm to the touch, just enough to tell it was warmer than the wall, but the Wattgate has remained cool. The Krell PC plug, but not the cable, would get warm like the Power Port, but the Transparent I'm using now is cool always. So I think the weak link was the Power Port, but it still was fine. It wasn't like it ever got hot. I would make sure you have a good quality outlet in place before installing the 30A breaker.
I plan on installing a Wattgate in the outlet for my source components too, but I doubt that I will bother putting a 30A breaker on that line.
Good listening,
Mike |
Hi Audiolabyrinth, I've been running it this way for about 6-8 months. And I would say that it's more than a 5% improvement. I also did not get anything special in the breaker, just a regular one, and I could easily hear the difference. The amp is the only thing that I have ever had on that line, so I don't know if that makes any difference. This was before I installed the Wattgate outlet, while I was still using the Power Port too.
There is another dedicated line for my source components that has a 20a breaker on it, but I want to upgrade the Power Port outlet for that line too.
Good listening,
Mike |
Mrvordo, You talked me into to it!, I am going to run my Krell like you!, I mean, how different can our power grids be from each other?, Like I said, krell told me to do what you are doing!, A 25 to 30 amp breaker,man, If its a 5% improvement, Its worth it!, A breaker only cost $15.00 to $25.00!, This does Help!, How long have you been useing this set-up?, and you have not seen no problems?,, you are one of many people that told me that they were doing this on the audiogon, cheers. |
Yes, the 30a breaker did improve the sound, and I've checked the outlet and cord plugs from time to time to make sure there is no heat build up. It wasn't a huge improvement, but was an easily heard improvement. So I think it is worthwhile. The electrical people will probably never tell anyone it would be ok for fear of some sort of liability if something did happen. And fire could be an issue, but I would think only under some kind of extreme conditions. It's just not to the lowest common denominator electrical codes.
I haven't noticed if my amp runs cooler, because I didn't know that could be a possibility, but now that I think of it, it could be a bit cooler than normal.
Hope this helps some.
Mike |
@ Mrvordo, Hi, Man, I was really hopeing you got back to me, Thankyou for doing so, your theory is exactly what I already believed!, I also agree with your whole post!, I was believing thats exactly why the electrical stores were saying what they said, LOL!, they said the same thing you did!, Krell told me to use a 25 to 30 amp breaker, The electrical supply houses said It would not work, I knew it would!, They said it was not code to, and I would be taking a chance on damageing my amp, and a possible fire could happen, Krell did say the 700 cx would run smoother and cooler!, can you hear a difference in sound with the 30 amp breaker alone??, thats one question I would like to know, Thankyou, cheers to you! |
I forgot to mention that outlets and cords are labeled according to the type of slot or plug, not necessarily what amperage they can handle. A true 30 amp outlet will have a different slot pattern and require a different plug on the cord. This is to stop someone from plugging in a lamp or something in a 30 amp outlet. 30 amp outlets generally will be wired for 220 volts and that would do all the things that the electrical people are telling you. But what really decides how much current they can handle is the effective gauge of wire. I would say that the heavier made Wattgate, and probable the one you are looking at, will handle more than 20 amps due to the heavier construction compared to a regular household outlet. Same with the power cord. If the effective gauge of the cord is 10 or more, then it should handle the current even into a dead short. The audiophile cords have heavier plugs and should be able to handle 30 amps for a little while, and they only need to be able to hang in there long enough to throw the breaker. Something that won't happen unless you have a dead short at the amp.
At least that's my understanding, and my outlet, plug, and amp are all cool and fine. No sign of melting. |
@ Isochronism, Hi, No, I have not looked into Coconut power cords, However, It may not be the very best, I just bought a Taralabs cobalt with oyaide plugs back on june 28th to go on my source, it is a 20 amp power cord, I do believe there is no better power cord from the $9,000.00 class on down, my opinion only, what do I know, right!,LOL!, I have not even used the cobalt power cord yet untill I get my amp back from Krell.,, cheers. |
My understanding is that the 10 gauge wire will handle the 30a. As for the outlet and cord, unless the amp is drawing 30a, which it doesn't, then no harm. Now if the amp decides to short out, there could be an issue. That's why what I'm doing is not up to code. With normal operation, there is no heat at the outlet or plug, so all is well. |
Audiolabrynth, Have you looked into the Coconut Audio Power Cords? The manufacturer claims they are the best in the world. |
@ Mrvordo, Hi, I have went around and around with the electrical parts houses, they do make since thou, and I understand what they are saying, so, I will tell you, the electrical parts houses say, In no way can you run a 30 amp breaker to your amp!, I asked why?, they said that all american recepticals for the home for 110-120 are maximim 20amp, therefore you cannot use a 30amp breaker on a 20amp receptical, they said it would damage the amp and melt the receptical likly..,,,, Now my question to you is, how did you or how can you use a 30 amp breaker on a 20 amp receptical??,,, Krell said to use a 30 amp breaker on my amp to, untill I told them that all recepticals are 20 amp, krell then said keep my 20 amp breaker in!,, needless to say, I am confused here!,, As far as recepticals, I have a 10 gauge 30 amp electrical 3/1 wire going to a 20 amp receptical now, I am changing the receptical to the best built receptical I know of, It is berlinuim and very thick copper metal, all the metal is thicker than all the brands and models I know of and it is cryo treated!, They come from melbourne, Australia,, many, many audiophiles say this receptical out performs the ps audio power outlet that you are talking about, I will look into the wattgate you have, I have studied the recepticals for a very long time now, currently, the receptical from Australia is the best I have ever seen!, another thing is, your power cord is 20amps as well, how is that going to work with a 30 amp breaker?, The captive cord on my amp is a 30 amp power cord, It says 30 amp on it,, cheers. |
Since mine isn't a captive cord it was no problem. I have a dedicated line for the amp with 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp breaker. Changing from the 20a to 30a breaker made a bit of a difference, but not as much as the cable. I also added a Wattgate 381 Gold outlet, which was a further improvement, almost as much as the cable. So you might want to forget the cable and add a Wattgate outlet. Just for comparison, I had a PS Audio Power Outlet before the Wattgate. The Wattgate was definitely worth the price. |
@ Mrvordo, Hi, Thankyou, This is some help, you are the closest to what The thread is about, did you have any problems with doing so?, your krell pulls some seious current!, My amp is very similar to yours, thou they sound different.,, cheers! |
I have a Krell FPB600 that I just put a Transparent 20a PC on it and was amazed at the improvement. I never really thought PC's could make much of a difference. The captive cord could be better than the non-captive that was on my FPB600 though.
Hope this is a little help.
Good listening,
Mike |
@ Nglazer, Hi, I believe the captive cord sounds good too, one of the members thought that my Krell 700cx might sound better with an after market a/c cord,my experience with after market cords with krells sounded worse than the supplied krell cord!, The captive cord on my amp is 30 amp carrol 10/3 power cord, Krell has my amp right now, they are making it brand new again for me, its only 8 years old, krell said, before they send it back, they wanted me to change my 20 amp breaker to 25, up to 30 amp breaker!, The Audience AR^ power conditioner you have might not work on my amp???, my amp draws 6000 watts full power, but of course we do not ever get to that point, close, we like it to shake the house from time to time,LOL!, It seems no one here on audiogon has used an after market power cord on a krell 700cx!, you are the closest to an answer I have gotten!, I thankyou very much, I do have a 10/3 electrical cord in the attic running to the receptical for the krell I have, If you believe the a power conditioner can work on a powerful amp like this one, let me know, and I will look at the specifications of the power conditioner to make sure it can work!, Krell says, of course, that their is no conditioner that would work for the 700cx!, I am open minded to eanything!, I just have to know it will work,, cheers! |
I have had an FPB 300cx for 10 happy years, with the captive PC, and never felt the need for an aftermarket PC. I do, however, run it through my Audience AR6 power conditioner, and this makes for a great improvement. Just one man's experience. |
@ Rondel,Hi, have you the experience of adding an after market a/c power cable to a Krell 700cx?, Thankyou. |
Try Transparent, Shunyata, Also Kaplan Good bang For Buck. |
Please, If eanybody can help, I would be grateful!, Is there eanyone ever used a after market a/c/power cord on a Krell FPB 700CX?, cheers! |
Does anyone have any exsperience with after market a/c power cords with a Krell 700cx amplifier?,, cheers! |
@ pops, Thats funny you said stay put on the carrol power cord made onto the amp, I talked to Ray, The service manager at Krell, LOL!, They do not recommend after market a/c power cords for the 700 cx at all, and will not warranty the work performed on the amp if I use one!, It really sounds very good to me with the stock ac power cord eanyway!,, I hope some one out there in the audiogon world comes on this thread that has used a Taralabs cobalt a/c power cord with a Krell 700cx to very good effect!, cheers! |
@ pops, Thanks, The Taralabs cobalt A/C power cord is defiantly going on the Ayon digital player!, I am getting ready to call krell now, I will let you know what they say. cheers! |
Audiolabyrinth - have you asked Krell for some feedback on adding an IEC? I will bet the cord Krell had made for those amps is very good....I know the Tara Cobalt gets great props but there are endless possibilities when it comes to power cords....you may never be happy because you will wonder if the others are better.
I wish my amps had a captive cord, LOL! My advice... stay put since you already know you have not had success with PC's and Krell amps in the past. But you do need to grab a Cobalt for your Ayon!!! Cheers! |
