Klipschorn Imaging


I have a pair of 1980s klipschorn for about a year. I have not heard anything sound this large or so dynamic, but for about a couple of months I have been trying to get them to image well and I am failing.
I have Onkyo TX SR806 (I have some HDMI sources) with pre amp out to MiniWatt 2.5 watt tube amplifier.
One is in the corner flush while the other has wall only on one side (no chance of getting a wall there and false corner likely will look bad).
I have tried using Sonic Impact T amp and that did not provide any imaging either.
The room is 25 ft by 25 ft with the speakers about 10 ft apart.
Is this just the nature of the speaker or has anyone been able to achive good holographic imaging?
Thank you for your inputs.
blueacara

Showing 8 responses by blueacara

Thank you for your reply.

I have found that the biggest bang for my buck in sound changes are Loudspeakers, amplifiers, quality of recording, loudspeaker positioning, speaker cables, interconnects and lastly power cords-- in that order. I am not sure which component is the bottle neck. If I know for a fact that Klipschorns do image very well then I will keep looking, if not I will kick back and enjoy the music.
I do not know if my electronics are up to snuff- is my Onkyo reciever a good preamp- I am not sure. Is my MiniWatt amplifier a good tube amp- I am kinda sure. Are my cables good - I am very sure they are not as they are the home depot kind.
It is difficult for me to try different products to find my fit-- I still have four speakers, 2 recievers and some networking products which I have tried and not liked and the product provider is less than inclined to take it back.
But the suggestion is a very good one.

Do your speakers provide good imaging?
I pushed the klipschorns to both corners (and ended up closing off a door) and they are now situated about 15 ft apart and the sound crosses my knees- kind of. It is better imaging- at least the sound is now coming from the wall inbetween the speakers. No holographic imaging still.

I am now looking towards closing off the back- although I might loose wall reinforcement of bass.

I was looking towards different tweaks as well- has anyone used 47lab cable kit?

Not sure I am up for tube rolling just yet-not sure which tube fits my amp.
The sound is good enough that I don't mind loss of imaging a lot.
Bob_Bundes-- do you have good imaging with your belles?

Thanks a lot for your replies guys.
" 2cnd is the polarity from amp to both speakers correct

3rd put you ear to each tweeter make sure they are working

4rth compare each speaker and see if all the drivers are the same polarity and terminals match at the barrier strip. "

How do I find out if the polarity is right from amp and how do I check if all drivers are same polarity?
How do I know if it is time for new crossovers?
I am sounding very newbie probably because I have a lot to learn- do enlighten me.
The Onkyo has a high noise floor and sounds brittle, harsh, like a bad solid state from 1980s. It works out well with much less sensitive speakers. The pre- amp section is also not the greatest-not super quite & I suspect the DAC is not the best. I don't have any other significantly better DAC to compare it to. Most of my sources have HDMI out. There is no stereo preamp with HDMI in.
Thanks for all the replies and since then I have been on a quest. I have several things to report.
1. Conrad johnson MV60se--fabulous sound, very tubey, wall of music, cradles you to sleep and as close to nirvana as I have come. Great soundstaging (perhaps not as good as well set up Anthony gallo). Significant hum-just could not make it go away. Always associated with HDMI. Worst was connection with TV.
2. Mcintosh MC275- less tubey than CJ but still good sounding. Best imaging and truely hi fi like music with MMG magnepan. All the imaging that I have heard in the past. Not the last word in music with Khorns. Same hum problem
3.Onix sp3- can listen to it for about 1 hour... have to turn off after that. No sound stage, no other significant improvement over T-amp
4.Glow one amp- no sound stage, nothing special, listening fatigue after about couple of hours.
5.T-amp--likely the 2nd best in the group next to CJ. Provides some imaging but has a metallic texture which I cannot get rid of.
6. MiniWatt amp- not very different from less expensive Onix and Glow amp. Quicker sound but not enough body. Different sound than T amp but not better.
So the cheapest and one of the costlier tube amp seem to be the best match with higher powered amp leading to ground loop hum.
This is a bummer. I really like the speaker but not enough to go around auditioning amps one after another. I like music more.
Perhaps it is just best to buy Mcintosh and pair it with magnepan MMG.
The other amps I am looking at are Quicksilver, First Watt F5 but I hate to have the house clutter up with unusable electronics.

So this is where I am in my search of tube like wall of sound from Klipschorn.
Inputs appreciated.
I have not had the opportunity to audition Cary amp yet. Perhaps in a few months.
I listened to First watt F5 and it is very interesting amp.

Let us consider a hypothesis- the amp that induces us to listen to more music is the best amp. Under those conditions the amp that produces listening fatigue quickest is the one that we do not want.

First Watt F5 does not produce significant listening fatigue but when matched with my receiver it did not invite me to listen either. With bad recordings (which make up most of my listening) it made me not want to listen to music. With good recording I listened for as long as I wanted without any fatigue but it did not relax or soothe me at all. I changed the receiver to help change the sound but the amplifier has a distinct signature which is not greatly changed by the pre amp. Perhaps a preamp which is distinctly tubey will help.
So was this a good amp--I do not know. I am not as unequivocal as most magazines are in praising it. Its distinct sound is of immediacy- i.e. you feel slightly closer to music and not perceive it as presentation of music. With newer music that is a good thing, with older recordings it makes it unlistenable.
CJ presented the music and made is very listenable but also was coloured- I love colour I think.

I started out wanting sound staging- i have found everything else.
Next step is DIY speaker cables and improved interconnects.
Then Quicksilver amps.
Thanks for your replies.
Sebrof- How do the Khorns look with the tophats unscrewed and moved forward? I feel your pain though.

I have never heard the tannoys but I wonder if this horn thing is getting a bit much for my ears- it is very fatiguing. Especially when I keep moving back and forth between amps.