@benlzy, it appears that the AC in Singapore is nominally 230 volts and 50 Hz. If you have or can obtain a multimeter it would be good to know what the actual AC voltage is, because if it is significantly higher than 230 that could contribute to the amp running hot. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the amp runs somewhat hotter at 50 Hz than at the 60 Hz frequency most of the rest of us have, everything else being equal.
Also, if my suspicion is correct that the 104 degF referred to in the manual is based on an ambient temperature of around 70 degF, at 77 degF the amp (or at least certain points on it) would be around 111 degF. That seems to me to be consistent with your description of "warm."
And if the room is at say 90 degF without air conditioning that would imply a temperature of around 124 degF, and higher than that if music is being played and possibly also as a result of the AC voltage and frequency.
Regards,
-- Al
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@mboldda1
I have indeed heard the Pontus at my place, but only for a night when a friend brought it over. At that time it was being paired with an Audio Analogue Accento amp, and I don’t think I would be able to write an accurate review to compare it to the Kinki dac. These are 2 completely different sets of equipment, with tone, musicality and flavour going in favour of the pontus/aacento combo (with triode wire labs xlr), but speed, detail (micro as well), midrange clarity, soundstage and bass control going in favour of the Kinki combo.
Before getting the Kinki dac, I did mention my findings on the Pontus and Terminator in a variety of setups to Alvin, who then suggested that the Kinki dac might be what I was looking for, without spending an arm and leg. He was kind enough to provide me with an extended home trial (I used a Nuprime integrated during the trial as my Job INT doesn’t allow me to bypass the internal dac). After listening to it, I decided to go ahead with the purchase of the Kinki combo. |
@jetter
Although I mentioned extended playtime, leaving the amp on with no music playing gets the amp hot too after a couple of hours. However with the AC set to around 77degF, the amp now runs warm, and I can comfortably rest my hand on the case without burning myself. I normally leave it on at volume 1 to play burn in tracks overnight, during these 2 weeks, and I don’t turn the AC on when I’m not in the room listening.
However, it has never been ’cool’ to the touch for me. The only time it’s cool is when it’s just being turned on. Otherwise, it will go between warm (with AC on) to hot (no AC). When I say hot, I do mean hot, as I’m unable to rest my hand on it even if I tried. |
Al, I get that he lives in a hot part of the world, but the sentence immediately before the one you quoted above is "I don’t understand how the amp can feel cool to the touch to some of you here." Just about, if not everyone else has mentioned that their amps get barely warm. And he has 8 ohm speakers. I can be a picky with a new purchase, and would probably contact Kinki and ask if all is ok, just for my own peace of mind. |
When the amp is either idling or not putting out much power and its temperature has warmed up to a stable state its temperature will be a certain number of degrees above the ambient (surrounding) temperature, whatever that ambient temperature may be. The amp's temperature will increase further, of course, if it is putting out a lot of power for a significant amount of time (unless the amp is operating in class A at high power levels, which it is safe to assume is not the case here).
The photo Uncola provided on 9-9-2018 shows the top cover of his amp being at 48.4 degC (119 degF) in a room that is not air-conditioned, at a time when the outdoor temperature was about 83 degF. Although whether the amp had been idling or putting out a lot of power when that measurement was taken wasn’t indicated, that seems reasonably consistent with the mention of 40 degC (104 degF) in the manual, which is presumably based on the amp idling and in a room that is in the vicinity of 70 degF.
Given Benlzy’s statement that his amp "gets freaking hot after extended play time, if I don’t turn on the air-conditioning! But then again, Singapore is pretty hot all year round so probably that’s why," my guess is that his amp is operating normally.
Regards,
-- Al
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benlzy, I would not feel comfortable with my amp if everyone else reported cool running and mine was very hot, regardless of ambient temperature. Might need something adjusted. |
The resolving prowess of the Darwins are nothing short fo amazing, to my ears. The gauge of the individual wires (one for each leg) are very small, which makes them very labor intensive to work with.
You can't just grab any old wire from a parts supply store and slap some connectors and sleeves and be done with them. Tony Bender and Bill Magerman have some of the best ears in the business.
If detail, separation, layering, coherence, etc. are important to you, then by all means take advantage of their 30 day trial period.
All the best,
Nonoise |
So far, the Darwin Ascension II is proving quite complimentary of the Kinki. Just when I thought there was no more detail to extract....👍 |
@benlzy, you have to start a review thread on the kinki dac.
I was thinking about it.
have you compared it to the denafrips pontus dac?
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@benlzy,
Thanks for the detailed comparison of the JOB INT and the Kinki. As @david_ten says, that power cord should make a difference on the DAC and may go a long way add some of that warmth you're missing.
When I upgraded the power cord on my SACD player the base went deeper and stronger along with increased dynamic and a fuller, overall sound.
All the best,
Nonoise |
@benlzy Great comparative write-up. Thanks for sharing your findings.
A major +1 regarding your comments on the power cord. |
I live in an air conditioned house in the Pacific Northwest. My Kinki is always cool. I’ve been to Singapore. Beautiful place, with lovely people but hotter than Hell. |
Just to clarify, the INT is quite sensitive to power cord changes; the warmth and musicality I’m getting may very well be attributed to the cord I’m using with it, the Branda from Telos Audio. This cord retails for more than the INT but my idea was that, since I’m already saving on other equipment and interconnect costs, might as well feed the INT with an awesome one. I don’t really follow any equipment to cable cost ratio. As long as it sounds good to me and is within budget, I’ll go for it!
Maybe after I replace the stock cord on the Kinki dac with a proper one, I’ll get the same musicality and lushness I did before, only this time with way more detail, refinement and control.
I don’t understand how the amp can feel cool to the touch to some of you here. Mine gets freaking hot after extended play time, if I don’t turn on the air-conditioning! But then again, Singapore is pretty hot all year round so probably that’s why. |
Great précis, that tracks my experience except I’ve never heard the other amp. |
@vingard
I have had the Job INTegrated for 3 years. During this period, I have heard many other systems out there - at friends’ places; HiFi shows; dealer shops etc. Singapore is a really small country and a visit to any ’hifi location’ typically takes less than an hour of travelling, so everything that you want to listen to, you sort of can.
In these 3 years, I have never been tempted to replace the Job INTegrated with anything else, despite all that I’ve heard. For me, the INT sounds great and provides excellent value for what it costs, and I know that I have to spend considerably more to achieve the performance it delivered, if I decided to ’upgrade’.
The INT is not without flaw, but it fits splendidly in my system. Despite it not being the most resolving, dynamic or refined sounding dac/amp, it had a great tonality and musicality which I find lacking in plenty of ’high-end’ systems. They just go loud and attack you with thunderous bass and punchy dynamics - not what I’m after.
However, with time, my itchy fingers made me change some things in my system, which resulted in a snowball effect - everything suddenly became a bottleneck, and the Job INT too, couldn’t match up to the ’upgrades’ I brought in. In came Alvin, who provided me an opportunity to try the Kinki dac. Needless to say, I was impressed by it, and decided to get both the Kinki dac and amp.
So with this back story out of the way, let me try to describe the sonic differences. This is a comparison between the Job INT and the Kinki dac/amp combo. RCA connection.
The Kinki combo has a very, very low noise floor. You have to strain to hear the electronic hiss with your ears beside the tweeter. The INT however, is rather noisy, and you can start to hear hiss from the speakers about 2’-3’ away.
The Kinki combo is also way more detailed and dynamic than the INT. Bass growls and punches you hard. The INT in comparison, had a rounder bass which is definitely not as tight or defined. Bass lines aren’t particularly clear with the INT, when compared to the Kinki combo.
The Kinki combo also has a wider soundstage and depth. You get a better sense of air around each performer, and everything has its place in the soundstage. The Kinki also doesn’t lose its composure when it goes loud. There is no perceived distortion even at max volume. The INT however, though it may go louder, starts to lose composure. At loud volumes, it kinda struggles and you’ll start to feel that all you’re listening to is a wall of noise without much depth.
Before getting the Kinki combo, I was worried that it would sound too sterile and clinical but it proved otherwise. I still prefer the INT’s tonality as there’s more warmth in the mids, which makes it sweeter and more enjoyable, especially with female vocals. However, I’m not losing sleep over this as the Kinki combo is really outperforming what I thought possible in its price bracket. I’m also only using the stock power cord that came together for the dac, as I didn’t have a spare ’audiophile grade’ cord lying around for this additional component. I don’t want to step on anybody’s toes, but to me, power cords do make a difference in the sound, and I think the Kinki combo can only get better as I start to tune it to my liking after the dac and amp are properly burnt in. |
@benlzy curious to hear your thoughts on how the EX-M1 compares to the JOB integrated.... |
@uncola
The volume increment from 0-30 is quite substantial, but the gain from 30-255 I feel it probably less than 10-30. At the 100+ range, you can crank up 10-20 notches without even perceiving an increase in volume. I'm listening to them in a rather near field setting too (small room), about 6' away from the spks.
@nonoise
Yea I guess it's all about the recording. I will switch to high gain then on those albums. 99% of the time I won't have to go into the triple digit range, but it's just startling to me as I've never max-ed out an amp before. There was no distortion even at max volume though, which accounts for something. |
@martine51,
I'd never steer you wrong. 👍 Not after the Kinki recommendation. I feel that what works for me can be of benefit to others.
@benlzy,
I don't have the newer version with the gain switch but even then, I've only had to turn it up to 80-90 when playing opera, to get close to the full effect of a live performance, but then, my speakers are 92db.
I did, however, go up to 200 with my older Clearwave Duet 6 monitors that are 85db and I could have went higher. With both speakers, it all depended on the recording, which can vary a lot.
All the best,
Nonoise |
That's been the opposite of my experience.. I usually listen between 10-15 on low gain.. but I do listen very close to speakers... But it seems to have as much power as my Odyssey kismet 200 watt monoblocks which have like 180000 uf in filter capacitance and 650va transformers each.. speakers are 86db 8ohm bookshelves.. would using high gain help you keep the volume control in a more useful range? |
Hi guys, I decided to participate in the discussion here since there wasn’t much activity about the Kinki amp in our local forum. I’ve had the ex-m1 for about 2 weeks now, and I agree with everything you guys have said. Fast but smooth, highly detailed, transparent, superb bass control and transients.
However, I want to ask if any of the other owners find it lacking juice reserve. I’m playing in a relatively small dedicated room, 13’ by 10’. Regular listening volume on most albums doesn’t exceed 30, but I sometimes crank it to 50+ when I want to play slightly louder. That said, there are certain tracks or albums that require much more juice for it to sound properly dynamic and loud. A couple of these tracks are Hans Theessink - Mississippi, and Hugh Masekela - Stimela (The Coal Train) from The Dali CD 1. On said tracks, I have actually pumped up the volume to the max 255, without it sounding unbearably loud. But then again I’m on the ’low gain’ setting, connect via rca interconnects. Understand from Alvin that ’high gain’ is only +4db.
Though I’m not a person who listens at a high volume often (at night my listening volume is 10), it is fun to crank it up occasionally. I don’t think my speakers are particularly hard to drive, as they rate in at 88dm/8ohms (only dipping to 6.4ohms). But this worries me a little, as I have never ever in my life, cranked up an amp to max volume. My previous Job INTegrated, though rated lower in power, felt like it had a lot more juice reserve than the Kinki ex-m1.
Wonder if the other owners can chip in and share their experiences. |
Thanks, Alvin, for asking, and tell him I don’t understand a word but he has my respect.
Since ole nonoise was dead on about the amp, I just bought and started using some Darwin Ascension II interconnects. First, like Alvin, Tony Bender is a very fine person to deal with, and though I’ll have more to say later, the sound really compliments the ex M1. Damn, nonoise, you really are getting me in deeper.
Anyone else out there with this amp? |
As I said, earlier, there is a zone of sound stage that I can literally put my head in, and move around, nearly like a live performance. I wish Alvin would have the design engineer comment as either I’m imagining this, or it is new to me. My McIntosh gear didn’t do this.
Reply from Kinki Studio chief: "It's the results of high bandwidth, high slew rate, ultra-low latency and the right dose of bias. Specifically on how to achieve this? - Trade secret. :)" |
Hello...hello...hello........ |
Looking forward to the review. |
yes I did purchase it before I told Alvin I am writing a review.
I bought it after all of the positive word of mouth and figured if I didn't like it with the demand I could recoup most of my money back.
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Mbold, did you buy a Kinki, or just review, or what? |
no, the kinki has great bass, I was not expecting the ayre at 50 watts less to have a more room shaking bass as I had considered the ayre to be a little lean sounding at times. now the kinki could be going through one of it's burn in rollercoaster rides on it's way to 300 hrs. |
mboldda1 I'd appreciate it if you would expand on
"I was shocked my 150 watt ayre power amp and deHavilland pre had more powerful bass."
Were you disappointed in the bass you heard? TIA
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Try Matapedia by the Mcarrigle sisters, Anna and Kate. You won’t believe it. |
Since my last posting I plopped in that Arye CD treatment disc again and let it run for another couple of hours and put on some Devil Doll and then some Stacey Kent and found myself sitting glued to my seat (more like melted into it).
The combo of the Kinki and the Truth II ICs have, for all practical purposes, erased my speakers as the source. I’ve never had this level of depth, image placement and separation, not to mention the usual line of "where did all that other music come from?"
LIke maritime51 says, it’s almost holographic. I’ve said this before whenever I’ve achieved a new level of performance but it’s never been more relevant than now, but this is why I love this hobby. 😄👍😄👍😄👍
All the best,
Nonoise
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See if he will get the engineer to comment! |
I will be sending my review to Alvin for posting. |
As I said, earlier, there is a zone of sound stage that I can literally put my head in, and move around, nearly like a live performance. I wish Alvin would have the design engineer comment as either I’m imagining this, or it is new to me. My McIntosh gear didn’t do this. |
The base I had with my Marantz was thicker sounding but not as deep, tight, detailed and textured as my Kinki. I'm getting mid range guitar notes that excite my wall heater that used to be excited only by the base.
It leads me to believe that what I used to love was a euphonically enhanced base that sure sounds nice but in the end, was not as accurate.
There's still some break in to occur now that I have the Truth II ICs so I'll have to reserve judgement some more.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Post the review soon! My bass is better than or equal to my Rotel Rc/rb 1590 combo. |
saving all my thoughts for my review.
my soundstage is more 3d, highs are sweet, bass is tight and deep.
I was shocked my 150 watt ayre power amp and deHavilland pre had more powerful bass.
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I’ll pm you.
the soundstage continues its apparent improvement-weird, but nice! 😱 |
how much did Alvin charge for the spare remote? |
My spare remote is here and it is silver!👌 |
This is crazy. The image has depth and substance. I’ve NEVER believed solid state had a break in, but....🚽
i wish Alvin would get the design engineer’s comments on this....👀💰
yikes, this is crazy. You can actually move your head around and in the sound stage. 🤢
I’m thinking things I did in the sixties are revisiting. |
Hey maritime51, it's reassuring to know that it's not all in my head. 🤪
As for drugs, and booze, for that matter, this Kinki could be one of the steps of a 12 step program towards a cleaner life. 👍
You'd be so taken by the music that it would be your escape for the drudgeries and vagaries of life, along with all those slings and arrows.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Jesus, Nonoise, around 100 hours or 11 days, I “think” it is starting to happen! Either you’ve coopted me, or it is real! The sound stage is getting wider and well defined, vocals sound live! I don’t know, maybe it’s bad drugs....😍
emmylou Harris is standing in front of me. 😘🔚. Near 3d is getting better, too. 🙀 |
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Listening to my Darwin Truth II ICs break in over this weekend was an eye (ear?) opener. They fully complement the Kinki's mission to bringing clarity to a level I've not experienced before.
They were good sounding out of the box but still needed improvement. Imaging was a bit too pinpointed (smaller than usual) and all except vocalists were a touch on the weak side of the equation. Twice I popped in the Ayre CD treatment disc and left it on silent repeat for an hour and a half twice, listening between treatments to check in on the progress.
It was when I popped in a Johnny Cash CD for my usual two reference songs that I ended up listening to the entire CD, glued to my seat. He and his accompanying players were in the room, performing before me. The same with Paris Combo and Sarah Jarosz. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that these Darwin ICs are an essential accessory to the Kinki, or to any system of a highly resolving ability.
As much as I loved the Darwin Ascension ICs, which were a big step up from their entry line Silver ICs, these Truth II are of the same magnitude better, if not more so. Sorry to sound like an advertisement but I'm as serious about these ICs as I an about the Kinki. They're a match made in audio heaven.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Well, I certainly hope that is ahead for me, but I’ve got a one box solution for sure. 👀. I’ve got a spare remote coming. I tend to lose them. 💩 |
Rest assured, it's real. 👍
Mine is bordering on the spooky side of realism, forcing me to rethink a whole lot of things.
All the best,
Nonoise |
70-80 hours in, is it me, or the amp? Soundstage seems more full, with great detail and localization. Old recordings on cd sound better and more detailed than ever. This is purely subjective, and may not be real, but it sure seems real. |
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Check out the AC Infinity temp controlled fan line! I use them. They have several that would simply lie on top of the Kinki and exhaust the warm air. Mine are dead silent. |
