Yes, it does continue to impress. It seems to get more 3D like. Not really holographic but the players seem more real than when I first started listening.
It's easy to take things for granted and think it won't get any better until you put on a CD that you tried before and just go, "wait a minute....it didn't sound that good before". Moments like that.
I did have a bit of a heart attack tonight as that one channel that perplexed me and led me to move my speaker further out turned out to be a faulty interconnect. It was so gradual that I chocked it up to room anomalies and it was when I started swapping out cables, I lost one channel completely.
At first I thought it was the Kinki since I started with the speaker cables and then my old monitors and it all pointed to the Kinki, being the same channel. Then, with my heart beat up, I swapped out ICs and that's where the fault lie.
Whew....too much drama for one night.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Considering the Accuphase is 3.5 times the price of the Kinki, that's high praise, indeed. 👍 |
Nice to see that you're hanging around Alvin. It's amazing that I'm still learning all that there is to this gem. After fiddling with speaker placement, all my CDs now sound much more coherent and have more body.
At first I was overwhelmed with the detail and sound staging but that was only the beginning. 😀
All the best,
Nonoise |
I think mblodda1 is correct but I think it's probably the cables being the culprit concerning your highs. I found mine to be a bit hot with only one singer (who has tremendous range and power for a folksy bluegrass singer) and trying out a new set of SCs completely cured it (it turns out it’s simply the SPLs that singer is so easily capable of).
I’m learning more and more about details and room interaction. I’ve never had it on a scale as I do now, with the Kinki. My usual speaker placement never excited room boundaries like the Kinki does.
The wave launch is so accurate and powerful that what I needed to do is move my right speaker out 3" to the right to balance out the staging (now it’s perfect). I’ve never had to do that before. Equal speaker distance from center was always the norm with anything I’ve had before.
As long as I point the speakers directly at my ears, and with the right speaker moved out, the soundstage takes on a new dimension with staging about a yard out to either side of the speakers, increased depth, and no sound actually coming from the speakers, unless it’s an old issue like Chet Baker’s The Italian Sessions.
With that one, he is hard right, straight out of the speaker but the bass player is way off to my immediate right (literally the 3:00 position) which put him 8’ out into the room and 4’ over to my right (leaning forward moved the position of the player accordingly). That’s when the Kinki showed me the limits of my room as no other piece of gear has.
When you get an incredibly accurate amplifier that doesn’t molest the signal, all manner of heck can happen (good and bad). 😄
All the best,
Nonoise
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He, he, he...... 😄😄😄
Another notch on the Kinki belt. (let the puns fly)
As for the battery, its' a 3V circular type. You have to remove 4 screws on the back to get to it. It should last a long time. I just got a 4 pack for the foreseeable future.
Enjoy and bask in the sound. I don't think you're going anywhere this Labor Day weekend.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Out for delivery. 😍 There's no finer phrase to please one's ears. 👍 |
@coldears,
That's the beauty of the Kinki: it's ability to literally suss out the details. No matter the singer, or instrument, they all have their own and distinct space, even if they're engineered or mixed to be on top of each other. This Kinki renders the soundstage completely leaving nothing to doubt and everything to revel in.
Let me know if I'm coming across as too much of a fanboy.
I can take it. 🤤
All the best,
Nonoise |
They are. Looking straight on from the rear, it looks like they simply named them right and left based on that view, and not from the front.
It's just an oversight as none of the music I listen to suddenly flipped positions. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise |
@toetapauiod,
The rest of my system is:
Marantz SA-15S2b SACD player
OPPO BDP-103 Bly Ray player w/linear power board
Marantz ST6000 tuner
JBL 4319 Monitor speakers and Deer Creek speaker stands
Cabledyne Synergy speaker cables
Darwin Ascension interconnects
TWL power cables
Wireworld HDMI cables
All the best,
Nonoise |
Adendum: As wonderful as the Kinki is at imaging, I was still perplexed as to how such a wonderful recording as Suadade is, that they got the staging so far off. Well, it's time for my facepalm moment.
Looking at the speaker placement was one of those forest for the trees moment and then it dawned on me that I was looking at my "winter" set up. It's to avoid the wall heater when it kicks on.
With all the cable swapping I've done lately I simply forgot to return the speakers to their Spring, Summer, Fall positions. Having now done so, the drum set is smack dead center with the piano on the right and the base is just to it's right, still outside the right speaker but just as full and ever present as the other two players.
It was only a total of a foot narrower (half a foot per side) but it made all the difference in the world. I'm going to hate it when Winter comes.
All the best,
Nonoise
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For prodigious base, try
Sotho Blue by Abdullah Ibrahim & Ekaya.
Any Breaking Bad soundtrack
Alice Merton, No Roots has a very deep and exacting opening base line
Game of Thrones soundtrack
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo soundtrack
Really, anything with base down to 40Hz, with the Kinki, should sound all the more present, potent, textured and nuanced than what you'd normally hear. At least, that's my experience. Having 12" pulp paper woofers helps a lot too. 😄
All the best,
Nonoise
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@facten , I've since changed the toe in on my speakers to where they're closer to my ears than before but the effect is still there though not as far out to the left as before.
The music is:
Jacintha, Jacintha is Her Name, track 2, The Thrill is Gone (the one with the xylophone off to the right)
Al-Andalus Ensemble, 21 Strings, on every track the guitar player is off to right and forward of the oud and violin player. I think that's how they were seated when recorded.
Niyaz, self titled CD, track 9, Dilruba, is where that beat is off to the left, on it's own, but now closer to the speaker (about 2' instead of 4' now that the toe in is greater). There's a lot of sampling/recording going on with the instruments and the soundscape travels around a lot. Nicely mixed.
The reason I increased the toe it was due to the Saudade CD from European Jazz Trio. Although the sonics are first rate, they seem to be situated to the right of center where the just inside the left speaker seems to be the center point of the recording. Toeing in more lessened the effect. It's the only CD I have where this happens and it befuddles me how such a great recording can be so off centered unless that's where they sat when recorded.
To hear the right side of the soundstage far off to the right of the speaker done correctly is weird but nice that it can be done so convincingly.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Way ahead of you on that one. I have his first, simply titled Keb 'Mo and it's like he's in my living room. That steel string guitar never sounded so authentic.
If you like that kind of presence, try European Jazz Trio's Saudade. It's so beautifully recorded that I went and ordered two more of their CDs from Japan.
If all CDs were recorded to that high of a standard, there wouldn't be any discussion, let alone need, for high rez.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Hey everyone, when Alvin sold this line, he was the one who got the well deserved credit for everything from selling, to follow up, queries, and the like. Now that Mike sells them, there's nothing wrong in acknowledging his contributions as well.
But to pit one against the other with getting the best buy or terms is kind of sad and not keeping with the gist of this thread.
Celebrate the gear. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise |
Mine gets warm after several hours as one can see from the close confines of my media stand. Just a few hours and it's no problem. Proper ventilation is a must. Right now I have a small fan attached to the back of my media stand that I turn on for lengthy listening sessions.
My Marantz never got as warm and I left it on 24/7 for years. But then, it only outputted 90W per channel and not 215W. Maybe that has something to do with it.
I just may relocate it to the lower section where there's more vertical space. That other extra inch would help.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Initially, I wrote that I could see where this thread was going and decided against it. @d2girls is correct. Please keep it on topic. The topic being a review of the Kinki EX-M1. If anyone's inclined to debate other merits, start your own thread. 👍
All the best,
Nonoise
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@maritime51, sure thing. The sound stage is the most stable and focused I have experienced in my listening space. Side to side is the most expansive too. For example, on one Niyaz CD that is very beat oriented and propulsive, making for some exciting listening, there's a loop or musician playing along but he/it's about 4' to the left of my left speaker, all on his/it's own. On 21 Strings, of the three musicians playing, two of them are between the speakers, and the third is about a yard out and a foot to the right of the right speaker. I've never heard it that way before. I can turn my head right to left and back again, eyes open or closed, and he stays right where he is. It is not holographic, per se, but a very stable image. If I sit on the ottoman, which puts me about a yard in front of the speaker plane, the image retreats to about a foot in front of the speaker and not in or from it. On a Jacintha CD, a xylophone playing on the right appears to be fully facing forward and when the lower notes are struck, they are out a good two feet to the right and when the higher notes are played, they end up just inside of the right speaker. Nice and level, left to right, and no truncation. Everything I've described used to be scrunched up somewhat between the speakers with little spilling out to the side. They were distinct, but overlapped, with not the best depth rendering. Front to back layering is somewhat limited due to my room constraints. Take a look at my set up on vinshineaudio.com and imagine sitting back a little more than 8' and that should give you a good idea as to why. I'm close to the front wall as you can see so I don't have great depth but still really good layering. On the percussion CD, Drums & Bells, there's a track where the drummer starts hitting something around the 6:30 position and continues striking things until the 11:00 position. As he goes around, striking various things, he describes a perfect ellipse that steadily rises until he finishes almost behind himself. I didn't have that with my Marantz, as much as I liked it. Back up singers are off to the side or behind the main performers, unless they're badly miked or mixed. Trying anything with just two performers highlights the deftness that the Kinki is in resolving them. Small classical ensembles, when nicely miked, are spread out from left to right in, again, another nicely laid out ellipse. Not all recordings put the performers into my living room like the ones mentioned but it's all down to the quality of the recording so don't expect miracles, but when that great recording is played back with an amp that plays so cleanly and clearly, it can make my speakers disappear like I've never experienced. I wish I could add another yard or so between my speakers and me and have another two feet or so behind them to see and appreciate the capabilities and potential that I know my set up has. But that's for later. I hope this gives you a good idea of how this piece images. All the best, Nonoise |
I'm using a Triode Wire Labs Digital American power cable.
The same one I used with my Marantz PM-15S2b. |
Congrats! I think you'll be thanking yourself when you finally get it.
👍 |
Correct. No tone controls.
Due to it's uncannily low noise floor and accuracy, it has some of the most convincingly accurate tone I've heard. It just sounds more natural without the need for added warmth.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Hey jafant,
I really love listening to the Marantz. It never fails to impress, even when I'm not in the listening mood, if that makes sense. 🤔 It's bullet proof and musical and I swear, at times, it seems to improve with age.
I used to own a TEAC PD-H600, a Consonance CD-120, a Rotel RCD-1070 and a NAD CDP (can’t remember which one) and a Philips CD-80 that was modded by Stan Warren.
Happy Listening to you too!
All the best,
Nonoise |
Marantz SA-15S2b SACD player. If I ever move and get more space, I'd love to try out the Jay's Audio CDT and Kinki DAC.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It's good to hear it's not just me hearing things. 😄
Having mine for just over a month gives me a bit of a head start on what you're going to experience, so please bear with me. You are going to experience break in up to (I'm told) the 300 hour mark. I've gone through two distinct levels of it.
I'm hearing more of the guitar body than usual and at times, what sounds like what goes on inside of one when it's closely miked (echos, reverb and all of it of different tone and strength). It's the same music I've always listened to and it's not distracting at all. It just adds to the realism.
Music is getting denser in tone but not at the expense of detail, timing or incurring any loss of ambience, decay, air and the like.
I even went and dug out Tony Minasian's Drums & Bells and there's a moment when the drummer starts out directly in front of himself and goes left and continues striking things around and behind himself. It was all of one, uninterrupted motion and raised just slightly in elevation as he did it, describing an elliptic arc right in front of me. What started out in front of him ended up, around and behind him on the stage depicting a level of depth that was uncanny.
Oh, the fun of break in.
All the best,
Nonoise |
gee sorry for ruffling your feathers
No feathers were harmed in the making of your statement. you can have whatever conclusion you like
As do you, sir. All the best, Nonoise |
Hey, now here’s a sales pitch: Kinki is coming out with 200+W mono blocks for 25% more than the price of the integrated. Srajan has a preview of it over at 6moons.com. 😄😄😄 All the best, Nonoise |
Last several minutes are nothing but a sales pitch of Kinki You do realize we can see the video for ourselves and sanely not arrive at that conclusion? |
I can't see the name from my chair either. I can make out that the texture is different but not any characters or spelling. No biggie. 😄 |
With both of us saying that, someone's going to take that leap of faith and buy one for themselves. 😄
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Hey Mike, it's good to hear you'll be doing a review of the Kinki DAC and the Jay's Transport. Alvin told me the DAC is very similar to the sound the EX-M1 since they're both made by Liu and he voiced them to compliment each other. It should make for a very interesting review.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Thanks @moboldda1 for the thumbnail sketch. Can't wait to read your full review over on Alvin's site ( vinshineaudio.com). The Kinki allows you to put more than a toe into the high end waters. More like waist deep when you factor in the cost. 👍 All the best, Nonoise |
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I don't know about you, @d2girls, but the suspense is killing me. |
And Kinki is an honourable component.
Sorry, Marc and Will. |
Hence the state of your ears......🌨🇨🇦👂 |
Alvin, do you ever sleep? 😴 |
I can only attest to break in up to around the 40-50 hour mark since I broke my ICs and had to get some new ones which resulted in concurrent break in (new ICs and the Kinki). Also, I ran a test burn in CD several times to speed things up in both scenarios.
Having said that, in my experience, the Kinki just got cleaner, went deeper, got cleaner and more extended in the highs, and developed better texture and tone. As the soundstage matures, it will go back deeper with better layering. Soundstaging side to side was outstanding right out of the gate. It was gradual and not in keeping with really big steps of improvement I experienced with other gear since it’s really great sounding out of the box.
If you like/love what you hear as of now, you will not go through that roller coaster ride like you did with your previous gear. It will simply get better and sound much more real and authentic as it continues to break in. Alvin told me to expect improvement up to the 300 hour mark, and to be impressed by what I hear at that time.
So far, I have no reason to doubt him. 👍😄
All the best,
Nonoise |
Congrats d2girls! With those speakers you're going to be the envy of the Kinki camp (or at least me 😄).
We eagerly await your first impressions. I dare say you're going to love it.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Aside from the pleasantly soft clicking of the volume, my Kinki is dead silent. I had a Burson with a stepped attenuator that wracked my speakers while changing volume to the point where it sounded like the drivers were ripping apart, when a source was playing. Truth be told, I kinda like the soft clicking of the volume changes.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I always hear "thin is in".
I guess "fat is where it's at."
😄 |
You can also use CR2025 and sometimes a CR2032. For a remote, I don't think it would matter much.
I got a 4 pack from some online battery store when purchasing a mini flashlight.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Yes, designs come and go, are further improved only to be again, further improved, and I'm still in the Class A/B camp. |
That confirms what Srajan, of 6moons, said about the Kinki ES-M1. I think he still has a Crayon in his inventory and in his closing comments of the unit, he mentioned how much one could save over the cost of the Crayon and still get comparable sound.
It sounds like you're going to have a lot of fun comparing what you have to the Kinki. Please let us know how it progresses.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Sorry about that. It'll all be good when you get it.
👍😄 |
Just thought I'd update with some impressions that've come to my attention. Actually it's just one. At first I thought I was hearing things as I've been trying out some new ICs and after a while I went back to my regular set. That'll teach me to do things one at a time.
There was a short adjustment period and even though it was what I'm familiar with, something was off when I went back to my normal ICs. The sound now had a slightly burnished quality to it. What was a lively and upfront perspective now had more body which at first gave the impression that things slowed down a bit, but the speed, pacing and timing were all still there, just with more flesh on the bones, so to speak.
So out came some Johnny Cash, Milk Carton Kids, that opening track to The Revenant, Per Il Mio Amore, and some Sarah Jarosz and everything had that chesty, full bodied sound quality. Cash, in particular, had his throat and chest fully incorporated into his voice, imparting more realism.
Mass strings had real mass but it didn't overwhelm or obscure the tone or texture. Guitars and horns are more rich and, If I may say, saturated.
I haven't experienced something like this in years since my time with Vinnie Rossi's old RWA integrated, which had several, distinct steps in it's evolution. Alvin told me to just wait and see how it sounds when it gets 300 hours on it. Well, I've got about another 230 or so to go, so I can't wait to see how it improves.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Oops. I always have trouble with that. 😄 |
I have no idea how "chichis" made it past spellcheck. |
The gain is high, comparatively speaking, but I now enjoy not having to crank things up to hear them. Also, with 256 steps, each @ .5db, I can finely tune things, sometimes from track to track. I find this most useful and wonder why no one else has done this by now. The volume reacts almost instantaneously to inputs and I've gotten really good at nailing the desired setting. Having written this, I don't see why someone would complain unless they're not used to it.
As for my new speaker cables, they're the Cabledyne Silver Synergy speaker cables. Like my Tempo Electric SCs, they use silver conductors but that's about where the similarity ends.
The Synergy are 12 GA, four nines, stranded silver and cryo'd, whereas the Tempo are 14 GA, four nines, solid silver. Where the Tempo are in oversized Teflon tubing and use a gentle twisting to alleviate interference, the Synergy use a high purity copper weaved braiding for the entire length and call it a non electrical shield, chichis over their own, oversized tubing. They say you can see the improvement on an O scope. Also, the Tempo use bare ends and the Synergy use 24K gold plated BFA bananas that are some of the tightest I've ever encountered when making a connection.
Apparently that shielding goes a long way towards presenting the most tightly focused imaging I've heard. They're coming along nicely and now have equal base footing with the Tempo but have much better definition. They also quelled what I felt to be some glare on a certain singers voice that at times made me wince. Now it just show off her pipes as she effortlessly scales the SPLs.
That extreme focus, without etch or hype, allows me to see much further into the soundstage's nether regions. It's so relaxed and effortless in it's execution but not at the expense of highlighting a thing. It's just all laid bare to be heard.
I like them so much that I just ordered two sets of their Synergy RCA ICs to see how they fare against my more expensive Darwin ICs, which aren't shielded. I say that as all the cables at Cabledyne have that copper shield on them. Some say that ICs don't benefit that much from shielding but behind my rack it's like a rat's nest of criss crossing cables (most at right angles) so I'm eager to see if I can accrue more of a benefit from the design. Again, the speaker cables seem to be a match made in heaven for the EX-M1.
All the best,
Nonoise |
The unit continues to break in fine. The base is deepening as already reported, and the music has a propulsive quality, making it hard to keep one's limbs still. If this is PRAT, then the Kinki has it in SPADES.
It's a bit strange to hear things done differently as the tonal balance coupled with the complete stage rendering has shifted some of the prominence of certain instruments and vocals accordingly.
Instruments on the extreme sides of the stage are now, properly louder but not overbearing. Things that had a bigger perspective in or near the center have, but not all the time, taken a step or two back but with more focus and image specificity. Layering is first rate as well, when it's recorded that way.
Over the last two days I've been transfixed in my listening seat and simply and pleasantly, subtly, stunned by what's transpiring. I even went and did something I shouldn't have and bought some new speaker cables on a lark. Now I have two items to break in but the pairing is most copasetic. They are like an appendage of the EX-M1 instead of an add on to be judged independently. I've never experienced such a level of image focus before.
It's too early to say anything final but I'm keeping the cables. Just like the Kinki, they're reasonably priced, if not a bargain, for what the level they perform on. It's another example of you don't know what you're missing until you hear it.
All the best.
Nonoise |
All's quiet on the Western Front.
Except for the EX-M1. 😄
It's coming along just fine. Blossoming more here, going deeper there, opening more in the backstage. It's all good, if not great.
It's taking longer to heat up to where it's hot to the touch but still not hot enough that I can't lay my hand on it for as long as I like. It now takes about an hour before it starts to even warm up.
Impatient as I tend to be, I've tried most of my cables and the delta in differences are even more apparent because of the subterranean noise floor. (it makes reading all the posts on cables all the more laughable)
When I said in my review that old CDs sound fine, if not great, I left out the uncanny realism that Mapleshade recordings can have. Pierre Sprey uses his own set up for recording and his music used to have a strange, distant sound presentation with my older gear. With the EX-M1, some of his music now has an uncannily real aspect to it. His East Coast Jazz themes are still not my cup of tea but they can now sound so real at times. I believe he only uses a two mic set up so whatever's closest to the mic really shines.
As you can tell, I like this unit so much that I'm considering getting the Vision DAC that Kinki makes. It would force my hand into getting at least a laptop to start with but Alvin told me that the DAC has a very similar sound to the integrated and for the price, I'm very keen to jump the gun on it and just get it. If Liu does the same magic with the DAC as he did with the EX-M1, then there's a reckoning due sometime soon.
All the best,
Nonoise
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