Interesting points of view, all! Truly appreciate hearing or, rather, reading how other folks approach this!
I completely understand how one can never really know what a major component will sound like under one's roof until you actually get it there. However, for major pieces like speakers and amps I still find it instructive, after all the reading & research has been done, to go out and audition the prime suspects, regardless of all the variables one cannot control for after communications with the shops involved (e.g. different sound rooms: source components used; etc.). I don't think I could ever feel comfortable spending a lot of cash on components like that, sight unseen, sound unheard. Plus, I find the auditioning and shopping fun! I'd like to think I've acquired enough audiophile smarts, over the years, to make some relatively good educated guesses as to how things are going to perform at my place, versus any given shop's sound room; especially after a good amount of serious seat-time with contenders. So far, anyway, I've never felt the slightest inkling to return a major purchase within a return policy period. I'm sure there very well might have been something, along the way, that might have performed a little better at home than what I ultimately chose via on-site auditions. However, I'm one of those folks who does not relish the prospect of re-packing, re-boxing and toting stuff, especially heavy stuff, to wherever for shipment back to on-line sellers in order to audition things at home. I guess I'm just lazy that way. I'm comfortable purchasing things like cables, interconnects and stuff like that on-line. I even bought my present turntable on-line but only because I couldn't find a shop near enough to avoid booking a flight to the nearest dealer. I was tempted to do the same for a CD player I bought many years ago. However, I'm glad I did some auditioning because the two I had narrowed the choice down to sounded very different under relatively well controlled auditions.
I suppose if I ever hit a lottery big enough to join the 3% I could task the servants or hire folks to do all the tedious stuff I abhor related to auditioning a bunch of stuff at home. That would be fun! Unfortunately, I don't play the lottery and I don't have any rich old uncles or aunts who love me and have possibly included me in their last will and testaments. So, I guess I'll keep on auditioning.
Millercarbon, I checked out your system. Truly impressive! Was that a lava lamp I saw? |
jrw1971, off-topic notwithstanding, I love that kind of thinking! Don't know how diagnostic this is but I love MAC amps and don't care much for CABs. I lean more toward Merlot, Cotes du Rhone, Chateaux Neuf du Pape, Bourdeaux (from Gironde), Pinot Grigio, Sauvignon Blanc, Tavel, Bass Ale, Harpoon Ale (definitely ale over beer), Cognac (Remy Martin only), fine single malt Scotch, etc. MAC lover? I love lava lamps! Child of the 60s who grooves on 60s music? Maybe. Wouldn't it be hoot if the Stenheim crowd are Bud Light drinkers? LOL! Audiophile psychologists should really study this!
Your post reminded me of a recent speaker upgrade 2 or 3 years ago. I sought some guidance by posting some very specific information about my sound room, equipment and a few other particulars on Stereophile. Music preferences weren't very helpful because I just love too wide a variety of stuff! I was floored when Kal Rubinson chimed in with a little guidance. To make a long story short, Kal and another professional I respect and had a separate back & forth with during this time, Doug Schneider, pretty much predicted what my ears would eventually choose. Guess that's why these guys are professionals. Kind of like audiophile fortune-telling. After several months of serious seat-time with somewhere around 18 different pairs of speakers, I brought home a pair of Revel. Despite my respect for Kal and Doug, I can assure you their guidance was nothing short of professional and objective and my ears definitely made the decision without any subconscious influence because of my respect for their expertise. In fact, there was, actually, a pair of speakers I liked more but my amp just didn't/doesn't have the juice for them (i.e. Aerial Acoustics). The person who traded those in went home with a pair of Steinheim Alumine Three. Get the picture? I've never heard the Steinheim but I can assure you the Aerial Acoustics are amazing! Of course, as we all know, this is just an opinion. |
MillerC, your post just reminded me of a line from "The Producers" (1967) where Zero Mostel yells: "If you've got it, baby, flaunt it!". Not sure I'd go that far but, nonetheless, enjoy!
Edcyn, thanks for the tip on the Cognac. I'll have to try it. I'll probably know, right off the bat, from one sniff, whether or not I'll like it. Got really sick... 3.5 day I wanna die hang-over kinda sick... following a slam bang celebration one night when I was living in France, many years ago. WAY too much celebrating! As Jimmy Buffett would say: "I pushed the fool button" that night. The culprits were Hennessey, Champagne, vin mousseux, red and white wine. The locals told me, later, one should never mix red & white wine when celebrating with a vengeance. Too little, too late! Anyway, it took me almost 3 decades after that before I could even stand the smell of Cognac. Remy VSOP was the first one to crack that barrier. |
So, all you folks who believe the time of brick & motor shops have come & gone, please help me understand this.
By way of example, lets say you were in the market for a new pair of speakers and had narrowed your contenders down to... say... 3 or 4 or maybe even more different pairs you thought would sound really great with your system, room acoustics, etc. And lets say each one of those speakers weighed around 100 lbs. or more and each pair had a price tag of around $10,000.00 or so. Are you saying you would systematically buy/order each pair of those speakers from an on-line seller(s), have them delivered to your home, audition them there during the return policy period and send them back until you arrived at your final choice? And, if that final choice happened not to be the last pair you ordered & auditioned at home, would you then re-order the ones you wanted and have those re-shipped back to your home? I suppose, if money isn’t an issue, one could order/purchase everything in one fell swoop, have it all shipped to your home simultaneously, audition everything at the same time and then ship back only the speakers you didn’t want.
Speakers are probably not the best hypothetical example, here, since most of them need a good amount of break-in time to sound their best. Maybe amps, pre-amps, etc. would be a better example but most electronic stuff like that needs some burn-in time, as well. I suppose if one had good relations with on-line sellers that could deliver demo equipment that was already burned-in or broken-in, this could speed up or make the in-home auditioning process easier. Is this what you folks do or do you do some reading & research and order things you’re reasonably assured will work well at home? I can see how this approach might be feasible for things like cables, interconnects, maybe a DAC, etc. But, for major components like speakers, amps, pre-amps? Really? |
Stuartk, I understand completely and couldn't agree more! All the shops I've ever purchased any major component from have always had either a 30 day or 60 day full refund return policy and most never had a re-stocking fee for returns. So, I've always felt comfortable doing my due diligence on the reading, research and preparation end and, then, some serious seat-time in auditions before laying down serious or even semi-serious simoleans for a purchase. So far, I've never been disappointed with what I brought home.
I tend to be very compulsive with my reading & research. My friends love to bust my chops about that and just can't understand why sometimes my reading & research will go on for the better part of a year, if not more, before I pull the trigger on something I want. They give me the same grief about my seat-time or shopping habits. Prior to upgrading my speakers a few years ago, I logged somewhere around 19 to 20 hours of serious critical listening time with around 18 different pairs of speakers and, yes, of course, that was in 5 different high-end shops in 2 different states. I like to think I've acquired enough audiophile smarts over the years to be able to factor in variables like different sound rooms, different acoustics, source equipment, etc. I always make a point of controlling for as many of those variables as possible when I make appointments, to the point of specifically requesting which components I want the shops to use if they don't have something exactly like what I have. I even ask them, for example, specifically how I want speakers set up in the sound room. In short, I try to replicate or, rather, approximate as closely as possible, the conditions I have to contend with at home. In this last experience, the speakers I bought actually sound better under my roof than they did in the showroom. I'm blessed with a living room that has good acoustics. I just can't imagine doing anything even close to this by buying a bunch of stuff on-line. I don't trust whatever audiophile skills I think I've acquired to make that kind of educated guess, especially when it comes to speakers. I think I'd be more comfortable doing something like that for an amp or a turntable, if I had to, but I would try to avoid that if I possibly could. However, as you've said, that's just the way I roll. |
@stuartk :
No need for apologies! I'm enjoying this insight into how different audiophiles go about their shopping and selection process or processes, as the case may be. Seems like you are going about this in a very cautious, well-informed and well-reasoned fashion which, I'm confident, many other folks who have come to eschew the conventional brick & motor thing probably do, as well. As long as you are pleased with the results, that's really all that matters. More power to you all! I, as I suspect a majority of audiophiles and budding audiophiles, simply do not have the same level of confidence in my audiophile knowledge base or expertise, such as it is, to be courageous enough to forsake the more conventional brick & mortar thing. The folks who do this successfully are obviously much more knowledgeable and adept than I am and, again, I believe most audiophiles fall into this category.
It's unfortunate that some folks who might prefer or really benefit from brick & mortar shopping are precluded from doing so because there are simply no or not enough reputable or good quality audio shops within reasonable proximity to them. Shows or audio expositions would certainly be helpful, as an alternative. I suppose developing good relationships with reputable on-line sellers would be helpful, as well. However, for music lovers struggling with this lack of relatively readily accessible variety of audio shops, music lovers who possibly are not fortunate enough to have quality multi-thousand dollar relatively high-end systems, who maybe have never even heard systems like that before, I think it would be wonderful if there were more venues available to them to explore this and on-going upgrade possibilities. Maybe a bunch of travelling mini audio expositions in the more rural areas of the country would be helpful? I think anything that can be done to support and help this hobby and passion thrive would be a good thing. |
@stuartk :
"Perhaps Classical and Jazz live music venues-- places where music lovers typically congregate?"
That's an excellent idea! I would add all music genres to that! Perhaps some advertising & marketing before & after a performance might entice fans to have a listen. |
