Just retired and want to get back to vinyl listening


I'm reeducating myself.... after years of no TT and focusing on just stereo listening.. I had a some early Klipsch Hersey’s and some GENESIS speakers pair with Yamaha receiver and low end turntable 30-40 years ago -- I can afford a higher end setup this days -- so what are thoughts on pairing a luxman l-550axII with Klipsch cornwalls?

I like the Herseys for music in the day.. cornwalls seem to be larger herseys but may well need audtion some of the tower types folks seem to tout..

I still thinking on TT -- but may get a VPI scout or prime -- thinking through the cartridge choices and other things is still a serious education -- recc?

music taster are varied -- jazz to singer vocalist miles davis - linda Ronstadt and a host of others for vocal musics and instruments- soft rock of the 70-80s- to some classical

thoughts -- looking to 15-20K for the refit for stereo listening - but could stretch some if I like the setup

steventoney

Showing 10 responses by fsonicsmith

I look forward to your impressions of the DeVore O/93's. I just bought a pair a few weeks ago and though not yet fully broken in, I love them. Things may change, but the plusses are very tuneful bass, good (downright startling at times) dynamics, and gorgeous "tonality". Minuses-well minus in the singular-is a wee bit of deficiency in the midrange purity. 
I only auditioned the O/93’s. I drove to Cleveland from Columbus and visited Don Better. He knew I was coming to audition the O/93’s and had them set up with gear similar to my own after we exchanged some email and he knew that I had a smallish room and knew my ancillary gear. He had set the O/93’s up with similar gear, more or less. I had spent 4-5 years with speakers that had overpowered my room and did not want a repeat. Don assured me the O/96’s would render too much bass for my room. Don is the definition of "a cool jazz cat", being a pro jazz guitarist IIRC who was from Cleveland but spent much of his career in LA. I don’t want to get Don in trouble with John DeVore, but Don told me that although he sells 10 pair of O/96’s for every pair of O/93, he prefers the O/93. This could be for any number of reasons but my guess is that the narrow depth of the O/93's turns people off. You can easily rock the speakers back and forth with one pinky finger which is antithetical to many who think loudspeakers need to be solidly anchored to the floor. I happen to think the overall design of the O/93's bucks many design parameters that are assumed to be valid by the likes of JA when he measures speakers. When Don said he preferred the O/93's, I don’t think this was sales-talk as Don seems to have far better-heeled customers than myself and he seemed to be totally neutral as to whether I would buy or not. In fact, I think he was a bit surprised when I pulled out my credit card. Btw, Don has one of the most amazing arrays of iconic turntables I have ever seen in one place and the DeVores seem to scream for vinyl rather than digital. I have yet to use my Aurender N100H/AMR DP777 with my new O/93’s-I go right to my collection of vinyl.
btw how picky on placement do you find the 0/93s -- how far out from the wall -- how far apart - anything between
I had an educated guess where they needed to be and think I am very close with no fine adjustment yet. I read John's "Care and Feeding" instructions and he ascribes to the rough equilateral triangle configuration with two options depending upon whether you set them along the long wall or short wall. Mine are five feet from the front wall, three from the sidewall, seven feet woofer to woofer centers, seven feet from my head in my listening chair, and toed in so that I barely see the sides of the enclosures. So my short answer is "not picky at all".
On the TT, my advice is to have the dealer set it up, buy a good digital tracking force gauge and level, and be sure to check VTF and for levelness when you arrive home. VTF is likely to change during transport. When I got back into vinyl about a dozen years ago, I felt compelled to tinker with alignment and VTA and azimuth rather than sitting back and relaxing and trusting that my dealer had aligned the cartridge and set up the table properly. That was a mistake. The problem with most TT's is that the basics of TT set-up are fairly easy but the the TT manufacturers don't make it very easy to actually perform the adjustments. I have owned two VPI tables and five different VPI armwands and though I love VPI, I don't like the tiny allen key screws that are prone to stripping with the least bit of over-tightening and the awkward location of those set screws. At 58, the most annoying thing is not being able to see what's going on without a pair of readers on and a flashlight in one hand with an allen key in the other while craning to see what's going on towards the back of the table against the wall. I tend to disassemble platter from table and tonearm from pivot point and transfer the whole mess to my kitchen table under bright lights :-) Don't let a bit of this cause you pause-the pain is worth it. 
Ralph, don't take the bait. Industry insiders tend to shy away from enthusiast boards because of being abused. I have seen this happen again and again on a popular wine board-winemakers pitch in with their wealth of knowledge and get accused of shilling even when the comment was not intended to be such. If Inna were to be given the benefit of the doubt, it would be that he was remarking that "of course the AN-E's are tube-friendly-they are AN-E's!" and that your comment was kind of unnecessary or obvious. Perhaps that is what he meant, more-so than accusing you of shilling but only Inna knows for sure. 
I just bought the DeVore O/93's and before that, I had just purchased an ARC Ref 6 preamp and Ref 150se amp. While auditioning the DeVores, they were matched up with a VTL 100 watt amp. My dealer did this on purpose since he asked me beforehand what I would be using the DeVores with if I bought them. Nonetheless, I was a bit concerned that the ARC 150se would be too much power with the potential for too much 60hz hum and the like. No such problem. They team up very well. My point being that it is amazing that very efficient easy load speakers play well with tube amps of all types and power. 
I do have a question -- if folks would be so kind -- about pro/cons on using the rca line inputs - outputs versus the balanced I/O on some of these equipment pieces -- I have no experience at all on the balance I/O - thoughts?
The simple answer is to not worry about it. Both work well. 
The more complex answer is that a huge amount of gear that offer balanced outputs and inputs don't offer true balanced circuits all the way through so the balanced option is more of a convenience thing allowing someone with a bunch of XLR interconnects the option to use them. True balanced circuits offer significantly less susceptibility to hum caused by various factors including grounding (mostly) but also rejection of EMI/RFI. 
I recently switched over from single ended (RCA) to balanced (XLR) interconnects hoping to take advantage of true balanced hardware and I don't notice much difference. Most of the Stereophile reviewers have made comments from time to time about noticing very little difference between single ended and balanced such that they mostly use singled ended interconnects. From a purely practical standpoint though, XLR is so much easier to connect and disconnect than locking WBT-style RCA barrels-I am happy to be away from those. Also, I don't know why it is, but cable manufacturers dwell over their choice of RCA connectors and often have very pricey options offered as upgrades and yet with XLRs they usually just have one option and leave it at that. I have seen obvious XLR "jewelry" on very expensive IC's but even the manufacturers don't seem to dwell much on the cost/quality of XLR connectors as being crucial. 
They do have balanced outputs - don't let the RCA connectors fool you. And you can feed those balanced outputs into a balanced phono preamplifier - some of which also use RCA connectors on the input. 
OK, you will have to explain this one to me. Many turntable manufacturers offer DIN outputs but you are obviously saying that those that only offer RCA outputs (like VPI's for example) are actually balanced. IMHO, you won't find too many phono stages that offer balanced operation. Case in point is my Manley Steelhead. Right from Manley;
FAQ #1: The Steelhead is unbalanced. Why can't I have balanced outputs?

Yes the Steelhead is entirely a single-ended design. The circuitry uses single-ended topology. In order to be able to provide balanced outputs we would have to convert the signal to balanced using something like some IC's or transformers. Both these options would add more "stuff" to the signal and be certainly audible detracting from the pure sound the Steelhead provides. If you are driving a balanced preamp or balanced amplifier with the Steelhead, check to see if you also have unbalanced inputs, change your cables and go with that. You might be pleasantly surprised that they too added extra audible "stuff" in order to provide balanced inputs and the RCAs that don't have that extra "stuff" in the signal path actually sound better. (Depends on a given unit's specific design.) Or use some RCA to XLR adaptors. Most balanced gear has no problem being driven single ended but check with the manufacturer if they are going to want the negative pin 3 of the XLR grounded or floating. Transformer-coupled XLR jacks always can be driven single-ended by running HOT into Pin 2 and grounding pin 3 to pin 1. Some IC coupled XLR inputs will want pin 3 floating, others will require it to be grounded when running single-ended into it. Check with the manufacturer of your gear to see how to hook it up single-ended.



Most phono cartridges are inherently balanced; they have separate left, right, grounds and shield. There are many fine, truly balanced phono stages, such as Audio Research, and a good argument can be made that the phono section is the most beneficial place in a system to use balanced operation. 
Yes, I have read, heard, and known for some time that phono cartridges with their four pins are true balanced. That is not the issue I am asking you to address. I am instead asking you how RCA outputs from a typical modern table can be used in balanced form as you clearly stated. 
Ralph-I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for being the resource that you are. You lend a tremendous amount of reliable information in simple layman's terms to this Board. 
Well, I happen to think this thread has an incredible amount of bad information. One poster says "Tekton DI's are all the rage these days and many people are selling their far more expensive speakers for them", and suggests they merit strong consideration. For F’s sake, whatever the hell you do, avoid the flavor of the month on forums like this one. There’s always an easy way and the right way. The right way here is to audition gear on your own after studying the various tried and true, ENDURING means of achieving good sound. There are only a set amount of tried and true paradigms; high power solid state with inefficient full range speakers, moderate British style solid state with stand mount monitors, SET and low power tube amps with horns or highly efficient easy to drive speakers, high power solid state with planars, etc. One poster just wrote;
Electronics is another thing, there should be no difference.
Nothing could be further from the truth. An indisputable truism; everything matters and electronics sound markedly different. Nothing will kill a system more effectively than mediocre electronics. You are better off with 10K worth of electronics and a $500 pair of well designed stand mounts than a pair of expensive speakers and cheap mediocre electronics.
I feel like sysyphus rolling the rock uphill sometimes and surely sound like the parody of a prophet in Monty Python’s "Life of Brian". You are retired and you presumably worked hard to get to the place you are at. Time is important but shortcuts will kill all enthusiasm. Travel to three retailers with diverse lines and listen to what each have to say and play for you and formulate real-world opinions first hand. You came to the wrong place for good advice. Discount mine as well as need be.
Fson... in your paradigms - where are the Luxman - Accuphase SS class A types fit -- These are SS but do not seems all that "powerful" relative to most of the other SS offerings
That's a great question. When I brought up the concept of "tried and true paradigms" I am aware that I am opening myself up to criticism for making broad brush generalizations bordering on stereotypes. That was not my intent. So as to Luxman and Accuphase, both are actually "high power" compared to many Japanese high end set-ups, which tend to be vinyl front ends, SET tubed (8 watts or so) gear and AN style corner loaded speakers.Corner loaded speakers maximize room space and assist with managing bass response in thin-walled construction homes. Obviously there is a dichotomy between something like Shindo with absolute simplicity of circuit design using selected NOS caps and resistors and something from Luxman or Accuphase which offer a ton of switches and selectors much like the receivers of the 70's. Luxman tubed gear is drool-worthy both from the standpoint of construction/tactile feel and sound. More affordable than Shindo and probably Luxman and just as lofty is Leben http://lebenhifi.com/aboutus.html. By and large, Japanese and British gear is designed with the typical small listening room in mind, but the paradigms are different with the Brits tending moderate power solid state integrateds (Sugden, Croft) and standmounts derived or evolved from the BBC LS3/5A.