|
That is the right place. Might be down. |
Is their web site down? http://www.joule-electra.com/ I've been trying to get on for a few days. Is that the wrong place? |
I've ordered the LA-150 Signature Edition. Will post when I've had some time with it. |
Spectron - to your post of 03-05-09, yeah I'm familiar with how distortion works ergo my use of the phrase I used to distinguish it from the other forms.
The 'magic' in Pass Labs amplification I am referring to, since you are questioning the sorcery, is indeed there. I am familiar with the formulas via sensitivity, 3db and watts doubling and all that, etc. The 'magic' is that companies can rate their systems at 'n' distortion level, there is no universal standard. One company says their amp is 100 watts, but at what level of thd and at what frequency and for what duration? So the Pass stuff is rated quite conservatively as these things go, and thus deliver far beyond what is on the spec sheet for any of their amps. Same goes for a several other top-end companies. The second part of the magic is the continuing doubling down with ohms, I don't have it in front of me, but the Pass stuff doubles down real well (well, in their recent Class A offerings, only in the 0.5 models). The third part that can contribute to the magic is the short term max output, which is wayyyyy higher than rms. The ratio is muuucchhh higher than most amps, so for short periods it can slam with the best of them. (Note, not compared to Spectron amps! those seem to be in their own league in this respect)
So, for 90 watts at 4 ohms, I would indeed consider it magical compared to what else is out there at 90 watts/4 ohms.
What are you using, isn't it like 7000 watts or something peak? Quite a different beast. Anyway, I didn't write this earlier because this is a preamp thread and didn't want to hijack it, but now that the thread has died down a bit thougth I'd chime in with a bit of this off-topic info.
Happy listening! |
Hello Pubul67,
Read: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1203302256&openflup&32&4#32
I also have auditioned LA-150ME, replaced by LA-300, and I believe its very similar to LA-150SE you are asking.
At any rate - what I auditioned - to put it simply, was so good that one audition made me wanting this preamp and when, very soon, LA-300 ME became available _ I got it and I enjoy it immsensely as no other preamp I ever owned or auditioned.
All The Best
Rafael |
Has anyone heard the LA150MKII Signature Edition which is suppose to incorporate some of the changes in the 300 at a lower price point? |
Hello Nrubado,
Congrats on your new 300ME. You should expect the 300ME to get even better with time. It'll become more dynamic, more transparent and it'll play music as if it has an unlimited energy reserve.
Best, |
After two weeks with new LA-300ME I decided it was time to put my 2 cents in here. I am thrilled with its performance and the improvements it has brought to enjoyment of my music collection. My system was not anywhere near this level with my previous preamp (Arcam FMJ C31) but I've been upgrading, starting with speakers and moving up the chain. The impact of the Joule-Electra preamp on the system is tremendous. Overall impression is - as has been stated by others here - of musicality. Just sit back, listen and smile, it is all there from top to bottom with slam or delicacy as appropriate, with a sense of reality that gets right to the point of why we spend our hard earned dollars on this hobby. FYI, the system has Revel Ultima Studio2 with NuForce Ref 9 SE V2 & Marantz Universal player |
Hello Rafael,
I haven't gotten to it yet due to time constraints during the last few weeks. I hope to post it in a couple of weeks.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello iSanchez,
Did you posted in separate or not your impressions of your LA-300ME?
Thanks
Rafael |
"I'll post a follow up once I get more time with the LA-300ME"
Thank you - may be its better to start separate thread. Voices are good if you know them in life...methink. I use cello, therefore since I "know" it - or I want to believe so...
All The Best
Rafael |
Hello Rafael,
I had the LA-300ME to full spec now. I only have about 20 hours on it, but from the first moment the improvements were quite obvious. The bass is deeper and tighter, the highs are silkier and more "luxurious" if you will. More detail surfaces from the music overall. There is even more effortlessness from the sound, which IMO is quite an achievement since this characteristic was already one of the strongest points of this preamp.
What really impressed me the most is the mid-range. Voices are rendered with such a level of realism that even I find it eerie now. There is simply more "life" in the voices and much more air. Voices are one of the sounds we're most familiar with and when they sound so real from reproduced music, it is one of the most surreal experiences one can go through as an audiophile.
I'll post a follow up once I get more time with the LA-300ME.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello iSanchez,
In your review of LA-300ME you wrote that you need upgrade your power supplies for full spec. I wonder if you did it and if it was sufficiently long enough for burn-in to take place and if so - did you hear improvments?
I am asking because as increadibly good LA-300ME was sound when I auditioned it first time - the sounds is much better now. I hear more details, more "there" - actually much more "there" etc etc
All The Best
Rafael |
Hello Lightminer,
Two points.
1 - The perceived loudness or even measured peak sound pressure does not depend on nominal power you quoted but only on the headroom which is peak power over the duration amplifier power supplies can hold it. If you measured, say 115 dB then knowing the distance from the speaker to the place of the measurement as well as sensitivity of your speakers (at this frequency) is very easy to calculate the power your amplifier generated during this measurement. There is no magic here whatsoever.
2 "without distortion I can tell/hear" - distortion which you can clearly tell or clearly hear is of HUGE magnitude (at very best more then 1%). Much more dangerous are distortions which only your inner old so called "reptilian" brain detect and it gives some signals to your cortex that "something wrong here. Don;'t know what, don;t care but something is not right". Cortex perceived it as slight or substantial discomfort and its called listener fatigue.
A few months ago, I published an article in EnjoyTheMusic describing challenges of faithful music peak reproduction and if you wish I can send it to you.
What iSancez and other owners of LA-300ME are saying, as I understand, is that Joule-Electra LA-300ME preamp re-creates musical crescendo without (or minimum) of subtle distortions leading to much more realistic experience of listening to "preprocessed, recorded" music.
Thank you
|
It would also be interesting to see what our systems compare like in terms of amps. I am running the 3.6s with 60 watts. You are using something like 800 or 1600 depending on how we count monoblocks. The thing is, I have 60 (well, okay, 90 at 4 ohms) watts from Nelson Pass, and his watts are different than everyone else's watts. I don't feel any lack of slam! On Shostakovitch's 8th on the quick blasts I can easily get to 110/115 db (read from meter, not estimated) without distortion I can tell/hear. (Like I said Nelson watts aren't normal. Try that with a 90 watt Sony or even NAD amplifier!) But it would be fun to hear your system and see what 800 watts sounds like :)...
But I digress - this is a pre-amp thread. |
Yes, particularly with MapleShade or other high-end recordings, I hear the same thing - that it sounds live. I even had someone say once that 'it sounded better than live' and at first I was offended in an odd way - it made me think that person didn't understand anything about audio, because 'live' is the ultimate. Eventually, I think I figured out what he meant - had to do with the room. If those 5 musicians were in my living room it would have sounded much worse as we would have been sitting 2 inches from their noses, I was replicating to some extent the space they recorded in, much larger than my puny room, so the room sounded larger and more natural than my actual room.
Its actually funny - the reviews mentioned above sound exactly like what I hear... Perhaps it is similar, but 'more so' for the extra 12 - 15k. Any of you with this pre-amp in California, or northern California? It would be interesting to listen, and I would invite anyone over as well. Send me a message through Audiogon if interested...
Oh - and agreed with the pre vs non-pre. I ran without a pre for years before the Supratek. Its more than acting like an equalizer, they handle voltage increases better than the small pre that comes in CD players. Remember, everthing has some sort of pre, as what 'pre' really means is increasing voltage to some level, even if that level is 2 or 2.14 or 2.4 volts. Except of course passive pre's, which only reduce voltage. So, with an active pre, during loud passages they are better at getting increases in voltage quickly than their small equivalents in source equipment. There are other things that improve with a pre and I don't know why all of them work, but dynamics are improved along the above comments.
iSanches - same speakers, we could have a great comparo but probably you live on East Coast or something :)...
Oh - and my sub gets less and less use as well. Those 3.6s go really really deep after a long break-in period... |
Hello Rafael,
So far, everybody (mostly classical professional musicians) who has listen to my system says the same thing: it's like the musicians are here!!!
Best,
iSanchez
|
"This implies that the Joule Electra Marianne Memorial Edition preamp might be performing something like equalization. Perhaps you simply prefer this equalization to a more truthful presentation."
There is no question that adding any component to a particular system will change the sound, so that will be the case for any audio system. One can also ask these questions: Are the new speakers equalizing or simply passing through the signal? Does the signal need to be corrected, re-timed perhaps? I don't know.
Also, there have been many others who connect a DAC or phono preamp directly to amplifiers and they report that the straight connection to the amps lacks life, etc.
I'm very familiar with equalizers. I'm also very familiar with recording studios. I also know very well what live music sounds like. This preamp simply sounds like live music, which in my opinion is the truthful presentation. BTW, I'm not the only one hearing live music with this preamp. So maybe this preamp is de-equalizing?
I've heard systems costing 100K - 150K that don't sound like live music, but they sound great in the hi-fi sense. Some may just prefer this to live music and they are very happy with it.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello iSanchez,
This is exactly what I hear with LA-300ME. Equally as you, I own two Spectron monoblocks with Bybees. Addition of 2nd amplifier was improvement and I thought "can't be better" - but yes it can.
You are more brave then I am - I was afraid to state that for my ears addition of (rather expensive) preamplifier improved bass and slam much more noticeable then 7000 watts (seven thousand watts!) of Spectron peak power.
Its good amplifier, I own them - monos and not planning to sell yet. However, MUSIC , real MUSIC, nothing between you and MUSIC (and bass and shmass and whatever) - only this preamp did it for me - personally speaking.
Never before I have had such experience (besides live concerts, of course).
Very interesting that my speakers are very different from your - B&W802N , and yours are planar Maggies 3.6 - still MUSIC is MUSIC is MUSIC....is MUSIC !!!!!!!!!!
All The Best
Rafael |
Hello Rafael,
"Are you suggesting that the sonic improvment you observed and described are due more from Jouole-Electra LA-300ME preamp or your Spectron Musician III Mk2 amplifiers?"
That is correct. This kind of bass depth, weight, pitch, definition etc., was not there until the Joule Electra preamp was inserted in my system.
A friend out ours, who plays in a quartet, heard his own recording in my system and his jaw literally dropped. He said he's never heard such a clean, articulate and pitch-correct sound from an audio system. This is from a musician who has a few recordings already and who travels to many countries performing. Most of what he said is also because of the Joule Electra preamp.
Best,
iSanchez
|
"Your question made me curious about what my system would sound like without the preamp. I connected the Benchmark DAC1 straight to the mono-blocks and listened. Unfortunately, I had to get up and leave within 20 seconds."
This implies that the Joule Electra Marianne Memorial Edition preamp might be performing something like equalization. Perhaps you simply prefer this equalization to a more truthful presentation.
I don't mean to offend but maybe this isn't what others may prefer. |
" ...What is interesting is that this is something that is more associated with amps, not preamps"
Hello iSanchez,
Are you suggesting that the sonic improvment you observed and described are due more from Jouole-Electra LA-300ME preamp or your Spectron Musician III Mk2 amplifiers?
Thank you very much
Rafael |
Hello Rafael,
Thanks for the insight.
Hello Lightminer,
I don't have a Supratek, but I've had the Joule Electra Marianne Memorial Edition preamp for a few months now. This is a fantastic preamp by any measure and I have already written about it in these forums and in the reviews section here in Audiogon.
Your question made me curious about what my system would sound like without the preamp. I connected the Benchmark DAC1 straight to the mono-blocks and listened. Unfortunately, I had to get up and leave within 20 seconds. That's how much I could stand listening to my system without this preamp. It was as if the life was sucked out of the music. The sound became very dry. Soundstage organization was all over the map. Voices sounded congested, as if singing with a sore throat. Bass impact and definition was gone. I could not feel the bass in the next room as is the case with the Joule Electra preamp.
I then plugged the Joule Electra preamp again and life came back to the music. What I learned with this ephemeral experiment was that it is very easy to live with the Joule Electra's presentation of the music, and that it is very difficult to listen to anything else but live music.
I can see that you also have the Maggies 3.6. At least in my system, this preamp brought a lot of depth, slam, texture and definition to the bass. What is interesting is that this is something that is more associated with amps, not preamps. I have a Velodyne HGS 15 subwoofer that I just use as a side table. I connected this sub a few days after I got this preamp and, at least with Jazz and Classical, there was just a bit more bass, but this came at the expense of pitch definition. So the sub went back to be what it's being doing for a while: being a nice, glossy side table.
Best,
iSanchez
|
I'll check out the reviews. I'll also see if I can audition them as well just out of curiosity - it will be many years before I can lay down that kind of money for audio equipment. But who knows... |
Hello Lightminer,
I did auditioned Supratek but not in my system. Still from this experience, I would suggest that Jud Barber new LA-300ME is in totally different class - most strikingly for me is its removal of any artificuality between you and the music. I expressed it in my review (along with many other audiophile attributes) and I believe iSanchez expressed exactly the same reaction as I have ( see his review too). May be its because we are musicians and we appreciate realism more ten anything else. In this (real music representation) I never heard in any other preamp (closest is REX by BAT ($21k) in my opinion)
All The Best
Rafael |
Hey guys - I want to ask a touchy question without starting a flame war. Just an honest question. I have a Supratek Chardonnay (well known here on Audiogon) that was only 2.3k. If I moved up to this pre for 14.8k can anyone who has heard both tell me what I get? Similarly, I use older Pass Amplification that used was in the 2k range, and their current models are 10 - 40k... I know there is a price/performance curve that isn't linear, and I've heard truly amazing things about Joule gear, so what do I get for the 12k difference? |
Hello ISanchez: Simon Thacher of MCV Consulting who work with Jud Barber told me that new J-E phono stage is coming. Also based on LAX-300ME technology and suppose to be paired with it. Similar power supply etc.
Regarding Elrod power cord, I use older EPS-3 Signature with my Joule-Electra preamp. I expect that new Silver or Gold are much better but I concentrated on the speaker cables to match my Spectron amplifier which Simon aslo voiced when he was with Spectron Audio
All The Best
Rafael |
Hello Rafael,
I have to admit that this kind of sound is very addictive.
BTW, I have an Elrod Statement Silver power cord arriving in the next few weeks. It is supposed to be a great match to this preamp. I'll post my impression once I get it.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello Psag and iSanchez - as much as LA-300ME bass is magnificent and my Spectron monoblocks are not shy in that area - I happened to auditioned a few times David Elrod not new interconnects or power cords but speaker cables, specifically Gold (I can't afford to buy it) These added bass in very, very impressive manner - so I agree with you that addition of Elrod Gold hook-up into LA-300ME was signaificant development.
Chao - I am going back to my listening room....
All The Best
Rafael |
01-19-09: Psag
iSanchez, Its interesting how this preamp can enhance what we call "slam", something I previously attributed mainly to the amplification stage. Fortunately this preamp is able to balance it with natural yet detailed sound. No doubt the internal Elrod wiring is important in balancing these qualities. I was wondering the same thing. The fact that David Elrod developed the wiring just for this preamp says to what extent Jud Barber wanted this preamp to be very, very special. |
Ouch, I think someone hit me in the eye with their pom pom |
iSanchez, Its interesting how this preamp can enhance what we call "slam", something I previously attributed mainly to the amplification stage. Fortunately this preamp is able to balance it with natural yet detailed sound. No doubt the internal Elrod wiring is important in balancing these qualities. |
Hello Psag,
Congratulations on your new preamp! Real music is what it's all about. Like Signaturesound said it: "it is going to re-define what really good preamp can do".
I had a little incident (in a good way) with this preamp. The other day, I was playing "Sunday at the Savoy" (from "88 Basie Street") louder than usual and some of the bass notes really charged the room to the point that everything started shaking and one of the crystals from the dining room chandelier fell down and hit the dinning table. That's how powerful, and yet controlled, music is after I added this preamp to my system.
For the record, I don't have a subwoofer connected to my stereo system and my Maggies 3.6 can only go down to 34hz.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello iSanchez,
I am writing review about this magic preamp but truth to be told you put all in one sentence:
"It doesn't cease to amaze me how a single component takes a whole system and ... puff! ... the whole system disappears and only the music is left."
How right you are - its all about music not components here
All The Best
Rafael |
I recently upgraded from the LA-150 MkII to the LA-150ME. The LA-150ME was only briefly available, and has since been replaced by the LA-300. Regardless, the LA-150ME is a clear improvement over the LA-150 MkII, which was already one of the most natural sounding preamps I've ever heard. The sound of the LA-150ME just sounds truer to the ideal of real music. Textural details of acoustic instruments are more detailed and realistic. I'm planning to upgrade my unit to the LA-300, as soon as Jud has the time. |
Dob... sorry for not getting back here sooner. I have been very busy trying to catch up with customer business since returning from the show, not to mention fighting a bad cold (more like bronchitis my Doc says).
To keep things short and sweet... my impressions of the LA-300ME remain the same. Superb sound-staging, dynamics, clarity, and musicality (i.e Resolution without brightness or texture). It gets the tone aspects of performance so right and then proceeds to offer the rest of these (audiophile) performance characteristics in a way that I think it is going to re-define what really good preamp can do. |
I meant to say spot on!
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello Rafael,
You assessments are stop on. It doesn't cease to amaze me how a single component takes a whole system and ... puff! ... the whole system disappears and only the music is left.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Hello iSanchez,
I started to write review and I am forced to use words and re-used words (re-gifting) and its very difficult when your primary response is totally emotional (i.e. music grabs you and you cannot stop listening - most of us know this feeling).
You are correct we started to talk about bass (which is foundation for all music) and in the last post you mentioned orchestra - and this is much more then bass alone. The LA300ME recreation of an orchestra 's sheer size and scale was unmatched by any other component in my experience (may be except Elrod Signature Speaker Cable..). The soundstage has a "see-thru" clarity that made even quit instruments at the back vividly palpable. The instrument placement is done with stunning precision (razor-sharp) and air between them was "seen" or "felt" . In big orchestral climax, the LA300ME was totally effortless and yet composed. Despite this staggering dynamics the presentation has no hyped details or transients. This is more or less accurate description of orchestral presentation of this preamp. It has unprecedented resolution of fine detail yet - you do not hear these details - you hear or you feel the flow of music, you are surrounded by music be it orchestral or solo cello and you can't stop listening - you discover and rediscover your familiar discs again. Oh, boy!...and yes, the magnificent bass, powerful and crystal clear - its not something you would expect from tube preamp
All The Best
Rafael |
Hello Rafael,
Congrats on the new preamp. I totally agree with you regarding the bass. It is so powerful, fast and clean that it really renders large orchestras with an uncanny level or realism.
Please keep us posted as you discover more.
Best,
iSanchez
|
Bass, oh bass...
- we always pay attention to it. While I reported here that my most important impression of LA-300ME was its realistic music presentation which grabbed me and did not let go until I "wrote the check" - of course I noted separate "audiophile" characteristics. OK, let me comment on the bass.
First of all, previous preamp LA-150 MkII was characterized by its excellent bass. Harry Pearson, in his Golden Ear Award 2007 description wrote:
"...The LA-150, in its new edition, has bottom-octave response - and this includes the dynamics as well - that you seldom get in any line stage....you almost never, in any price range, get the explosive transient dynamics you get here..."
Sure, LA-300ME bass was much better then LA-150 MkII. In all aspects. Instrument's timbre particularly these dominated by low order harmonics were depicted with wonderful warmth , richness, sense of 3D body and presence. The sound had tremendous TREMENDOUS WEIGHT AND POWER in the bottom octaves. I never experienced in any preamplifier before - and I owned REX by BAT, CAT preamps and auditioned countless others - so POWERFUL SLAM this preamp has. The low frequencies reverberations were going thru out my chest, the listening chair I was in also vibrated - so DEEP and CRYSTAL CLEAN it was.
I was feeling the FURY of symphonic music CRESHENDO like I was there, sorry - THERE... Also, full body, rich and warm - the bottom end was extremely articulate, with exquisite rendering of texture and clarity of pitch....so I bought it...
All The Best
Rafael
|
Isanchez, nice system. I'm not surprised you are getting the sound you describe from your system. I am sure the Joule is contributing to it. There are noticeable differences between the LA-300 versus both versions of the LA-150 and LA-100 MkIII.
BTW - I met Dr. Feickert at CES and spent quite a bit of time with him. He demonstrated his software and I was impressed enough with it that I'll be ordering a copy in the next few months along with his tonearm. |
Perhaps for different reasons, I also hear a very authoritative sound, "resolving every bit of musical detail in an easygoing way", in my system, which is quite different from the system in the Merlin/Joule Electra room.
Best,
iSanchez
|
That is the room. I agree the sound was more authoritative at CES vs. RMAF. Whether it was the speakers, LA-300, room or a combination of those (the amps and CDP were the same ones used at RMAF) components is the real question. |
Hi All, There is a little report of the Merlin/Joule Electra room here. I'm not sure if this room was using the new LA-300ME preamp. Best, iSanchez |
Rafael, I sent you a private email. |
Hello Signaturesound, Clio09 - now after, CES - what is yours impression of Joule-Electra LA-300ME preamp?
Thank you in advance
Rafael |
As to value per dollar, that comparison is best left to other who can compare it with other $10K+ preamps. The best I cn do right now is discuss it in comparison to the LA-150MK11. I have to keep this short given I need to get the room going here today.
- Much better bass... the bass has outstanding resolution, weight, definition.
- Dynamics.. Again better. The LA-300 does appear more quiet to me so macro and micro dynamics are very well represented
- Top end sounds more extended... a very natural, liquid and open extension.
- Tone - The quieter nature of this preamp means that midrange tonality is better developed in its bloom and decay. Most importantly the tone sounds right.. with the correct amount of body and texture with outstanding resolution (would not be a Joule - Electra preamp otherwise IMHO)
- Soundstage/imaging... always a strength of Joule preamps IMO and this preamp does it in a excellent manner. The blacker background does result in better ability to define the images in the stage.
Gotta run. Have a good day everyone |
Hello Signaturesound,
Thank you for the report from CES - please keep uis informed.
Its good to hear abour clear cable but since its Amp/Preamp discussion forum - tell us about LA-300ME. I did not buy so many (expensive or cheap) resistors, so many capaictors, half a pound of power supplies , three ounces of paint etc etc - I buy performance first of all - and here your observations would be most valid not the price per resistor - if I may suggest....
Thank you in advance
Rafael |
