Placebo effect is worth paying for. Audio and visual perception, in the end, is all in the mind. It all ends up as a psychological phenomenon - pure interpretation. Thus a placebo effect, especially for audio or visual interpretation, is entirely real in my opinion. And worth paying for.
Everyone's brain is wired differently, thus we all "hear" and perceive things in an individual way. Belief systems rewire the brain (memory is electro-chemical configuration). Thus scientifically, believing in something can in fact alter its perception to you.
Note that Dunlavy does say that cables have very different electrical properties which are measurable. As an engineer, Dunlavy has decided to build cables that focus on optimizing these electrical properties. They might even sound good? Too bad their appearance is crap.
I personally find that good looking speaker cables (fat, color coordinated, well terminated) "sounds" better. Thus I pay. |
I get by with 26 gage speaker cable, but then again I use low watt bulbs (300B's). |
Sean, electrical PROPERTIES dictate the electrical behavior of wire, and audio signals are electrical.
Of course what you said doesn't work, and I never said that it would. I just said that speaker cables should have as little resistance as possible. They should also have minimal shunt capacitance and series inductance, but being in a low impedance circuit, the capacitance and inductance are fairly unimportant, especially for the run lengths you find in homes and studios. Velocity factor has totally negligible effect on audio.
I don't want my speaker cables to have "sonic characteristics." I just want it to deliver the signal from the amp to the speaker without alteration. You might be interested to know that 12 gauge zip cord at 30 cents a foot makes excellent speaker cable for runs less than, say, 40 or 50 feet. For longer runs I'd go to at least 10 gauge. |
I don't think there's anyone here trying to claim that all audio gear is of the same quality, or that no changes made to equipment will have an effect on the sound it produces. That's absurd.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just interested in what happens in blind tests, and if anyone remembers, that's what the article that started this thread is about.
The relevance of such tests to your listening is debatable. |
It always surprises me to hear someone adamantly denying hearing any sonic differences between the various manufactured interconnects, and all the while condeming others that do. Without sarcasim meant, I honestly wonder if those that argue against these facts are possibly sonically deaf, or maybe it's their gear...I don't know. It truly perplexes me though, that they appear to be sincere audiophiles and do apparently appreciate music, still, they are unable to hear the tone, detail, or soundstage changes in their music, when equipment changes are made, yes even to include interconnects. I know I do, and if you don't, well stay with your Emerson clock radios and stop being a nuisance to others. |
Of course they will come back to give me another -2,-2... Thanks guy. |
Oh yea, they do the disappering thing when ever you ask for a list of the equipment they use, or have heard. It's a pretty easy qestion. |
Sorry JT, I was tired and did not catch that one in time.... Good one though. |
I remember seeing John at a seminar with Classe Audio at Cherry Creek Audio in Denver before this article was written. At that time, John was very vocal with his opinions about wire and bi-wiring. They were similar to what is written in this article. It was clear that, although he makes some very good gear, he is a technician first and an audiophile second, or third, or somewhere down there. If the placebo effect really works, then why have I not purchased every "sexy" or "highly touted" item I have auditioned? Why have I not been impressed with some highly regarded and well reviewed equipment? HMMMMMM! There's another one for you, John. By the way, the medical community has recently reversed itself, claiming that there is no such thing as a "placebo effect". Not long after the seminar, John came out with his own line of audiophile cables, so he could join the ranks of cable manufacturers perpetrating a fraud on the audiophile community. Would John agree that all amplifiers sound the same? What ever happened to those guys, and their double blind listening tests? Well, I've decided that all speakers sound the same. Whay buy a pair of SC-IVAs when my Cerwin Vegas sound the same? I think I'm onto something! |
You got it. Bose/Sears = foul, as in totally disgusting. As in even if this is all fun, you wouldn't wish that on your worst enemy type of foul. I just took your sarcasm one step further.
Where'd they all go anyway? You must've really hurt 'em. |
JT, thanks for the vote. Sorry if you thought it was foul, I am not sure I follow you on that one. Sarcastic...yes. Foul... I just don't see it. |
Recently I had this eye opener experience. I have only two power outlets behind my wall of audio equipment. so I got $40.0 power strip from Radio shake so I can connect some components from outlet on side wall( not very high end!) I hooked up my cd player and preamp to the new strip ( my older one was/is the 2 for $10.00 Home depot power srtip). At first I like the sound a great deal: Sound stage opened up, depth improved, more details. Upon extended listening I discovered that the midrange magic was gone , there was lot of gringe and soundwas not just as lively. I cahnged back to my old $5.00 Home depot strip. Magic! Every thing came back to normal, meaning perfect sound. (to my ears). CABLES DO MAKE DIFFERENCE BUT NOT NECESSARILY FOR BETTER. YOU NEED TO FIND THE RIGHT CABLE -$50.00 TO $5000.0. |
I could tell no money got it when I gave him a couple of points it put him back to 0/0. But only for his delivery though, the content is just beyond foul and as such I could never endorse it. :-P |
J, I tried to correct those votings... but, how could you tell no money got negatives?
BTW, tried a different cord on my cdp. It still sounds different (to me) than the previous one. I'll live with it, what else can I do?
Cheers |
Negatives for me and No Money? What's your problem? Join in or piss off. |
J_thunder, the systems they use are hush, hush. VERY top secret stuff. They have to keep it that way due to the confidentiality clause in the contract with Bose and Sears. |
Oh shit, here we go with the epistimological thing again. Maybe you want to argue about whether God exists for a while, or maybe a theory on the origins of the universe.
Re: ABX, sure, what the hell, I'll try anything once. I pass the test with digital links, why not a power cord-eh?
But sounds to me like you fellas have chosen poorly your hobby. I don't know what systems you run, but based on the above, I can now assume that you picked your pieces on something other than how they sound. Cool. I'm into it. But I will never understand how the unbelievers of you can look me in the face and say an amp you have chosen sounds better or different from another, or likewise with a pair of speakers, but also say the stuff that strings them all together makes no difference. Any comment on how arbitrary that is?
We can go roundy round racing on this for another month solid, but what's the point? Your minds are made up. There appears to be no amount of rationalizing, mathematical machinations, blind faith or otherwise that's gonna change your minds. So that begs the question, if everything sounds the same, why are you here? Sheer joy of playing devils advocate? I'm stumped. |
Plasmatronic: Your brother of choice (Stevemj) has zero first hand experience (from his history at this site) of what he speaks. In other words, his opinion is based on Zip, which just happens to be the speaker cable that he prefers. |
Hm, I'll have to check the rule book, there are already several power cord "debates" going on, using the topic to pad a signal cable fight may not count. Of course, neither will silly meta discussion, so....
Jadem isn't offering an argument or support, he's just sniping. Nothing to disagree with.
J Thunders, congratulations on your ears. You sound like you have enough faith in them to try a blind test, eh? Any chance?
By all means trust your ears, our point is that you hear with your BRAIN, which is susceptible to all kinds of prejudicing and suggestion. IMO, your best bet is to accept this and say the extra money is worth the perceived improvement, even if it quite likely disappears when you don't ALREADY know what you are listening to. After all, under normal circumstances you know what's there. |
Amen, brother Steve. We can make a mint by starting the Church of the Heavenly Power (Cord).
Jadem6, you appear to be criticizing me for not believing there is a difference, and then criticizing me for trying to be fair. I bought the TMC's because they are the highest-rated at audioreview and was willing to give them a chance, and change my opinion if there was an improvement in sound. I've lived with them for about a week and I think a week isn't a fair trial. Unlike some who disagree with me, I try not to jump to conclusions.
Grungle, you're a pessimist. I think we can squeeze 500 posts out of this. If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly.
P.S. Nobody has yet explained the logic of plugging a multi-thousand dollar power cord into 50 cents a foot Romex. |
Amen!!! Now, can I get a witness. |
Most people would like to believe in magic, to have super natural powers. Imagine the satisfaction of being able to hear things so subtle that they are even beyond the tremendous power of todays equipment to measure. You too can experience this thrill! All you need is faith and money, brother. Soon, you will be hearing differences in the molecular structure of your interconnects and the improvement of setting your gear on little pointy things. You are surrounded here at Audiogon with believers who will show you the way. |
I think we can get this thread to 200 if we really try.
Those Arthur Salvatore thread guys won't know what hit 'em.
Go team! |
Funny Plasmatronic that you can't make up your mind between TMC interconnects and Radio Shack gold terminal interconnects.
Why not, they all sound alike right? Must be the color. |
I'm not horrified, nor do I need any comfort, but I do feel sorry for you. I can't help but notice you have chosen a hobby that begins and ends with the ear, yet yours don't appear to function the same way mine do. Pity. It's about like eyesight. I can see better then most too, the only difference is that there isn't anything like an eyechart to test the difference and show you what you are missing. Oh well, even if I spend more money on cables than you do, I trust my ears and will take them over yours any day! Enjoy your music. |
Maybe this explains it all -- or at least part of it:
"Auditory memory is said to last for only about forty seconds (average) and this possibly explains the diverse auditory perceptions."
From:
http://www.innerear.on.ca/editorials/editorial-v9-3.html
A few people have asked me, as the igniter of this unexpectedly voluminous thread, to state my opinion. I've held back, but after almost 150 postings on this topic, and now that it seems to be slowing down...what the heck.
Based on my 30 some years in audio, many of those years spent as a musician, and the past 15 years as a financial writer observing the degradation some people will fall into in pursuit of their god of money, I see the same pattern in huckster get-rich-quick pitches as I see in high-end product advertising, particularly in cables, interconnects and, most shamelessly, in power cords: Snake oil. The only difference is that the financial con men appeal to their audience's desire to get rich quick, while the audio con men appeal to their audience's desire to get audio nirvana quick.
Before you ask, have I spent tens of thousands of dollars and auditioned every interconnect, cable and cord out there? Of course not. Have you? Even if I had attempted such an absurd venture and pronounced my opinions, they would only be MY opinions, and many would disagree. The 40-second rule applies.
I have tried some high end speaker cables and compared them to Radio Shack 12 gauge oxygen-free copper cable at what the salesman thinks is an outrageous $1.00/foot. I find no appreciable difference.
Horrified? Get in line.
If it comforts you, I hear a big difference between 12 gauge and 14 or thinner. Other than that -- snake oil.
I think that some people are convinced that they hear a difference between, for example, one cable or power cord versus another. I can't get in their head to verify this. But my common sense, which I am learning more and more to trust, tells me that most likely they *want* to hear a difference. Maybe it's because they bought it and have convinced themselves they have to defend their extravagant purchase to their wife and thus to themselves. Maybe it's because they read a review and have convinced themselves that if they allow themselves to disagree with the respected reviewer they wouldn't be taken seriously as an audiophile, by their friends or perhaps just in their own minds. Whatever it is:
High end audio is largely about ego. That's why it's a male hobby.
We all want to think we have the biggest and the best. Or that we are on the way to getting it. And the latest and greatest cables and power cords all promise to be the new Viagra. Until you get the next issue of Stereophile which pronounces the newest latest and greatest.
And to those who have asked about my system (golly, I hope mine's bigger than yours)...here's what I am currently listening to:
Thorens TD-160 Mark II table
Audio Technica AT440 cart
Audible Illusion Modulus 3A pre-amp
JoLida tube CD player
Theta Casablanca
Spectron Musician II amp
Martin-Logan speakers
12 gauge Radio Shack O2-free speaker cable at an outrageous $1.00/foot
TMC interconnects on some components, Radio Shack gold terminal interconnects on others (haven't made up my mind on these, except the TMCs are stiff as a board and very difficult to work with)
FYI, the Spectron/Martin Logan combination is truly magical.
Of course, that's only my opinion. But I make no money giving you my opinion; unlike the cable and power cord manufacturers. Snake oil it's not. |
Welcome Plus4dbu, I look forward to hearing your report. Great post Sean, not so great 7. |
I personally know Tom. I would be interested in his comments on cables and controlled listening. I have done some controlled listening with him. Plus4dbu, please give us a report. |
This is a very interesting thread. And very timely because I just got an e-mail that the Audio Engineering Society in LA is having a meeting tonight and they're going to talk about cables and controlled listening tests. They have a guest from Sound & Vision magazine, Tom Nousaine. That should be really interesting. Hi, I'm new. |
Besides this being "the topic / thread from hell", here are some more comments.
7, if electrical measurements "dictate" what a cable sounds like, why don't people just buy zip cord and "duplicate" their "favorite" cables measurements via electrical components ? It would be WAY cheaper, wouldn't it ? After all, you could simply measure the characteristics of a specific cable that you liked in your system and go from there. Once you factored in the amount of inductance in the "el cheapo" zip cord ( which you forgot to mention ), you could then simply add series resistance, capacitors, inductors, etc.... as needed. Why don't people do this ? Because it doesn't work !!!
The bottom line is that "lumped sums" do NOT equal the sonic characteristics even if they DO match electrical characteristics of the other cable. If you think that the differences between having electrical values "spread" amongst the cables or "lumped" is not measurable, detectable or audible, you need to do some checking. Borrow or find access to a TDR ( Time Domain Reflectometer ) and see for yourself. Slight kinks in cables are QUITE measurable in terms of impedance bumps, voltage to current ratios, velocity factors, etc...
Just as cables DO alter the sonics of a system, it would be nothing less than SILLY to NOT take them into consideration when building a "system". After all, ALL of the signal IS passing through the speaker cables along with the majority of other cabling in the system.
There would be NO questions asked about any of this stuff if we were talking about building a high performance car. Since most every aspect of an auto's performance ( from BSFC to horsepower / torque curves, to acceleration to braking, etc... ) can all be verified with hard numbers, we would be left with nothing "subjective" to deal with other than how the car "feels" or what our personal preferences were in terms of "ergonomics".
Unfortunately, audio is almost 100% subjective due to the various electrical characteristics involved and the differences in how we hear as individuals. This is true REGARDLESS of how something measures on the bench. If you haven't seen "unexplainable" differences between components that measure similar in identical installations, you've spent WAY too much time in the books, theory and "drawing board" and WAY too little time with hands on experience. Sean
> |
Frap, Floyd Toole has done more to determine what audio quality means than all of us here put together plus the fine fellows at all of the hi-fi magazines.
Sean, the "blind test in less than familiar surroundings" is a red herring. What do you think of blind tests in familiar surroundings, with the listener's own gear (most of it, except for whatever different is being tested)? Are those invalid, too? The fact remains that ABX testing still is the most accurate and sensitive means of detecting audible differences between audio devices.
Jaykaypur: What would you think of a guy who puts in a new $1,000 power cord and actually gains no improvement whatsoever, but merely thinks he gained 1 dB somewhere? Would he be better off as he is, or would he be better off more knowledgeable and $1,000 richer?
Bmpnyc: The quality of the copper will have an effect on the resistance of the wire. However, the difference in resistivity between "pure" copper and standard commodity-grade Cu is infinitesimally small. Lamp cord, if the overall resistance is small enough, can be as acoustically transparent as any "single crystal" or other hyped-up wire. Some people will give you all sorts of baseless technobabble about the quality of the insulation or the wire geometry. Yeah, right. The characteristics of wire can be boiled down to three electrical parameters: resistance, inductance, and capacitance. In speaker wire, because it's part of a low-impedance circuit, the resistance is the most important factor, so short and fat rules the day. The capacitance of even zip cord is so low that it doesn't begin to affect signals until you get up into hundreds of kiloHertz.
Bear, someone might hear a difference if they separated the lamp cord as you suggest, but would they hear a difference if they didn't know if the lamp cord was separated or not?
Abe, I'll answer your question. No, using power cords as tone controls is silly. For that matter, I think using interconnects as a tone control is silly, too. |
If one were to ask Roger Penske if he uses COATHANGER to connect his HONDAs to his REYNARDS he would laugh and shoo you out the door! Yes, Helio and and Gil must have accuracy, immediacy, precision, reliability, FEEL, and THRUST with their cables...in both directions. I'll bet those drivers use the best stuff that Roger can find them! |
Abe, you never answered my question. |
The "stock" cord was probably swapped on me when I bought this amplifier used without first seeing it. It looked more appropriate for a preamp. In any case, I built one for about $20 in parts. |
Abe, The stock cord could not handle the current draw? Was this component U.L. approved? If it was you may want to report this back to U.L. |
Abe, I really do agree with you 100%. It does seem silly to spend dollars a foot on power cables when the Romex is roughly 10 cents a foot. I do not plan on spending my stereo allocation for the next six months on a power cable. Because of my electronics and electrical background, I will make my own. I started out by putting a heavier gage cord on my power amp. It helped, but I did not go farther with power cords because, like you, I felt that size was the issue.
I then got introduced to this and other forums, and all the talk about hospital grade outlets. I had a friend tell me about a hospital grade power cord. He sent me one and I compared it to a shielded IEC cord I had found. Both cords were a lot better than a standard computer cord. They both were even better than the heavy gage cord. The shielded cord had a ferrite 'bead' and may have been responsible for the lower noise floor and better focus of the images. I do not have the answers. I wish I knew what it is that makes a power cord change the sound.
I think we all can agree that a filter of any sort on the power line can have a positive effect on removing high frequency transients from the AC power. I have three filters in series on my power amp! I feel that it is possible that some of the high end cords might, because of their geometry, have special filtering capability. This could be at ultra high frequencies where the mutual capacitance of a big heavy inductor in an after market noise filter just passes it through, but the cord stops it.
My experience in industrial electronics has educated me to the hazards of a poor electrical connection. I have seen the results of a loose connection on a motor. The motor overheated from the reduced voltage and melted the insulation on the windings. Every connection in our systems can be a source for problems. Heavy current flow into the power amp could easily be restricted by a less than perfect connection on an outlet or cord. I had to put a slow turn on circuit in my amp to prevent blowing the 20 amp breaker in the distribution panel! I know that a magnetic circuit breaker can pass many times its rated current for a short transient before it will trip. My amp was likely trying to draw over 60 amps at powerup. Some will not believe that 12 gage wire can supply that much transient current. I know it to be true! I wired a 12 gage 100+ foot circuit going to a pump wrong and when I applied power to the pump it popped a 100 amp fuse instantly. Those little 12 gage wires handled in excess of 100 amps and did not melt or even burn the insulation.
The point that I am trying to make is that I feel we do not understand all the interactions that affect the sound of a system. My ranting(s) are for the purpose of shedding a little light on areas that may affect what we hear. I am sure that many 'discoveries' are waiting to be exposed. I know that discussions like this stimulates me to look deeper for a possible answer. I look forward to more discussion on this topic. Ideas or questions placed on this forum can be the spark that sheds light on a new understanding. I am certainly ready to uncover some of the *snake oil* in the high priced cables so that the less finically fortunate can afford good sounding cables.
Chris |
I vote let's try my question for a while, it's more fun to think about and makes about as much sense. Here it is: Who-let-the-dogs-out? |
Chris, I agree with much of what you said and you put a lot of calm methodical reason behind your comments.
You talk about mating high quality speaker cable with speakers that do not necessarily have the highest quality wiring inside. While people may hear an improvement in the sound (I have), at least here, we are making the adjustment in the *audio* path where you get more "bang for the buck", if you will. Possibly more so with interconnects.
We both know that the AC power cord is not in the *audio* signal path at all so I still have an issue with making adjustments here. On top of that, most of us have several hundred feet of copper wiring at a few cents per foot behind our power outlets yet some people are willing to spend a hundred dollars or more per foot for say, a 6 or 8 foot run of AC power cord (that plugs into several hundred feet of cheap copper Romex). You upgraded your house wiring but I'm sure that most of us have not.
I can understand using a power conditioner or filters on the AC line and many components include a little filtering where the power cord enters the chassis. I think we both agree that this is filtering to reduce "grunge" on the AC line and not for altering the tone of the system. And beyond that, there's the stiff power supply regulators and filter caps.
Maybe its just me but I still think the AC power cord is the least effective place to make tonal adjustments to the sound of an hifi audio sytem. I believe that an AC power cord of sufficient wire gauge to handle the current draw is more than adequate and any adjustments in the sound of the system should be done either in the transducers, the electronics, or the audio signal path between components.
I guess I'm the only one but this is my opinion. I'll leave it at that and let it go. Cheers! |
Abe, It is common practice for a system owner to change interconnects in an attempt to 'produce' the sound he desires. I think you can agree that they can alter the sound. Speaker cables are the same way.
Now to make a point about the lack of quality power cable behind the outlet. I have opened at least a hundred models of audio electronics. I have found very poor quality wire inside the units. I have tried many different cables with these units and have heard differences. I have changed three inches of wire inside a unit and have heard a change. Do you really believe that all high quality electronics and speakers are wired with high quality wire? If hundreds or even thousands say they can hear the difference in speaker cables does that mean they ALL are listening to speakers that are wired with high quality wire inside? I think not.
Our ears have the ability to distinguish differences that the audio community has now figured out how to measure. I was trained in the precision measurement field of electronics. I understand the current forms of measurement pretty well and we are not even close to making measurements that can tell us what a piece of equipment sounds like. As an example of just how foolish a measurement means to audio, consider this. A normal low frequency speaker will easily produce over 1/2% distortion. Then how is it we can tell a difference in the bass performance of loudspeaker cables. The cables do not produce more than 1/100 of the distortion of the speaker.
Now on to the topic of AC power. If we use a similar analogy to the power cable it stands to reason that even a few inches of wire could make a difference. I agree that it could be even more important if the wire behind the outlet is high quality. (I believe it enough to have rewired my house with the stereo in mind) It is false to assume that the AC to DC converter (the power supply) is not effected by what comes in the power line. Our equipment is connected to the power grid. That power grid stretches all over the country and every minute of every day lightning is hitting the grid. Heavy machinery is dumping transients on the grid every second. It is imperative that this noise does not get onto the DC buss inside our equipment. It is next to imposable to stop a transient from passing thru the diodes and dumping a charge onto the filter caps. I believe that power line filters are our first line of defense to this grunge. Who is to say that a power cord does not have some property that helps in filtering this trash and keeps it out of our systems?
And to answer your question: YES I believe a AC power cord, just like a speaker, cable can be selected to 'adjust' the sound to one's liking. Most people feel that a tone control can be used to 'adjust' the sound and so therefore a cable is a form of tone control.
Chris |
Well I'm through with this too after a few paragraphs..........
Some things to think about:
Fact: Interconnects are designed to carry low-level audio signals between various audio components by coupling their electronic circuitry together. It makes perfect sense then that interconnects will have an audible effect on the sound of a system. It also makes sense that one could experiment with interconnects to alter the "tone" or "sonic signature" of the system.
Fact: Speaker cables are designed to carry audio signals and should also have an effect on the over all sound of a system (but to a lesser extent than the interconnects which carry a low-level signal that by its very nature is more sensitive to variations in cable vs the high-level signal carried by the speaker cables).
Fact: The AC power cord is designed to carry AC power with sufficient current to the equipment. It is not designed or intented to carry audio signals at all. Additionally, the AC current being fed to the equipment will ultimately be turned into "clean" direct current within the power supply. The intent is to have NO AC signal, audio or otherwise, in the DC power being supplied to power the circuitry.
Fact: The AC wiring in your house behind the power outlet is common and cheap. Unless you rewire your house first, it makes no sense to me to use an outrageously exotic power cord to the equipment.
Back to my original question, "do you believe an AC power cord should be used as a tone control"? I do not. |
I for one am not angry at all. It's just that in my *opinion* you are full of shit. I do not say that to be rude, or to start a fight, it's just that I don't know how to say what I *believe* any better than that. I would say the same thing to your face, with a smile on my face, if we were having this conversation some place other than here.
I will go so far to venture a guess though, that you yourself don't actually believe yourself, and instead just want to argue and hear yourself talk. And with that, I am through with you on this. |
Is this not a discussion forum and a hot topic worth debating? If it pleases people, I will again plainly state my view that I do not believe an AC power cord should be used as a tone control and asked if they do.
If this offends people so much that they have to make personal attacks against me, perhaps some of them are struggling with this themselves and can't arrive at a simple YES or NO answer. |
What agitates people is not the questions. What's agitating is a questioner who poses a query, then insists that they already know the answer, yet continues to bait others into discussing the subject. In my book that's has all the earmarkings of a troll. |
I thought that i DID answer that question pretty plainly.
Since i think that a music reproduction system includes EVERYTHING that is involved in what you hear ( this includes power cords, components, interconnects, speaker cables, racks, speakers, the room, etc...), the answer would be a resounding YES. This is especially true in the limited context that you are asking the question.
When all is said and done, your question can be summed up as "is one part of the system more important than another" ??? The answer, of course, is a resounding NO. The "system" is only as strong as the weakest link. This is true whether it be a power cord, source, interconnect, amplifier, speaker cable, speaker or the acoustics of the room. Given that most of us are looking to achieve the best performing SYSTEM possible, no part of it is beyond reproach or fine tuning. Sean
> |
I didn't think such a simple question would anger and frustrate so many people.
To the person who asked why I built a power cord using parts from the hardware store, it had nothing to do with improving the sound of my system. It had everything to do with the fact that this particular stock power cord wasn't up to par in terms of wire gauge to handle the AC current draw. Why else would I go through the trouble of building a better AC power cord?
Why is there no point in answering this simple question? I'm not looking for a right or wrong answer. In YOUR OPINION do you believe an AC power cord should be used as a tone control? I am truly interested in seeing the responses. |
I'm still trying to figure out why it is that you are digging around at the local hardware store cobbling together electrical parts to make a replacement power cord if the stock cord is good enough. And doesn't the fact that you are doing that in the first place negate your entire bullshit argument anyway? If the hardware store cables you make don't sound any better (meaning they necessarily don't change the sound) why go to the trouble?
I imagine Sean didn't answer the question because there is no point in doing so. It's some strawman you've designed to prove some point that is in no way relevant. Now, I admit, you have already established for yourself that you are smarter than I am, and that I am unable to understand the superior wisdom and insights of your clever posts, but could you first explain why anybody should feel compelled to answer such a ridiculous question? Because you are very right about one thing if nothing else, I am having great difficulty in understanding the logic behind your statements, especially when all read together.
How about this, I'll humor you and give you the platform you seem to want here: Yes, Abe, why yes, I do think that power cables should be used as a tone control. Isn't that what everybody buys a power cord for?
Let's hear what you got to say there genius, it's all yours. |
What's the right answer, Abe?
If you want to apply the phrase "tone control" to the sonic affect of a power cord (or interconnect, etc.) then you must accept that ALL power cords are in fact tone controls. If that's the case, which regrettably it may be, then I'll shop around for the tone control that works best in my system. |
Sean, you didn't answer the question.. Do you belive an AC power cord should be used as a tone control? |
You are limiting the performance or "difference aspect" of a power cord to simply altering the "tone" of the system. That is NOT all that they MIGHT do.
We are talking about differences in the noise floor. This in itself effects apparent dynamic range, the ability to "pick out" small details that might have otherwise been buried in the mix, "more correct" harmonic structure, etc...
While i know that it is hard to set aside years of teaching and "hard line" technical aspects, there is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to something like this. You have to remember that music and music reproduction is both personal and subjective. As such, your looking at it from "it all measures the same" ( which it might not ) or "theoretically, there should be no differences" while someone else may be saying "this sounds better" or "this sounds more natural". Both sides can present their "argument" with great passion, but the bottom line is that differences DO exist. Whether you choose to accept this or pay money for those differences is up to you. A person shouldn't harrass someone else should they choose to do so. That would be no different than me picking on someone that spent enough money for a Ferrari when everyone knows that a Yugo can get you from point A to point B in appr the same manner. After all, the only difference between a Ferrari and a Yugo would be the amount of attention given to "details" and what someone was willing to spend to get those "details". Sean
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No, but I believe a good power cord is essential. |
