I agree you are probably better off trying a different DAC rather than trying to adjust what you have.
How about a tube dac? I can vouch for the mhdt DACs based on my very positive experience with the Paradisea. These can cost under $500 used.
Or the Benchmark is another way to go worth considering for around a grand. |
Yes, I'm becoming increasingly aware that jitter is indeed a real threat to digital sound quality.
If you have good ears and a decent DAC and your digital sources sound good compared to other sources, then you're rig probably has a handle on the jitter. If not, then jitter is a likely culprit. You'll probably only know its a problem once its gone. |
This may have been addressed in other threads, but how does one know for sure that jitter is the issue when not satisfied with the digital sound? |
Pmi_guy,
I think you are right.
I suppose whichever devices do the re-clocking task best would work the best also. |
Mmarvin19,
I've read a good bit on line about this and it is still clear as mud to me how to diagnose a jitter problem as opposed to other forms of unpleasant things in sound reproduction.
I think I understand what jitter is and how some kinds can be offensive and others not, similar to various distortions found in vinyl playback. In both cases, the only thing I find I can trust is my ears to tell me whether things are going right or not.
I would consider buying a jitter reduction device if I knew how to conclusively diagnose a jitter issue, but I don't.
I have found different DACs can make a world of difference in regards to good digital sound but I have no clue about how much jitter is introduced by any particular device, though I do believe all devices, even those with the best clocking mechanisms introduce some.
After all, nothing is perfect. In the end, all I know for sure is to trust what I hear. |
So back to the original question, which device is best, and why, please? |
Asi_tek,
That may not be effective in all cases, as I understand it.
For example, in my system, a Roku Soundbridge feeds my DAC via TOSLink. Data is sent to the Roku via wireless connection from my Vista laptop functioning as a music server, where files are ripped to disk from the onboard multformat Pioneer optical drive.
The Roku caches/buffers data in dynamic memory before forwarding to the DAC.
In this case, it is the Roku I believe that provides the clock for the DAC, so I think that (the Roku) is where the accuracy of the clock would matter.
I also concurrently feed the DAC from a Denon CD player/recorder via coax. In this case, the clock on the Denon provides the timing for the DAC I believe.
Prior to introducing the outboard mhdt Paradisea tubed DAC, I just ran the Denon analog output direct into the pre-amp. In this case, the internal DAC was used.
So what about jitter with the various configurations I've used?
Honestly, I have no clue really.
All I know for certain is that since introducing the external tubed DAC, I am hard pressed to hear any sonic artifacts that would indicate that the source is digital and that any articfacts of jitter is audible.
Prior to the outboard DAC, I could clearly hear some things that might typically be attributable to digital and perhaps jitter, specifically, I could hear a subtle wavering in pitch on lengthy notes played by massed strings in many larger scale orchestral recordings that I did not hear on other reference systems I listened to in comparison.
Was the subtle wavering in pitch due to jitter?
I would say maybe but I do not see how.
What I can say for certain is that going to the outboard DAC seemed to resolve the problem.
The thing is that I do not believe the Paradisea does any re-clocking or other special processing to address jitter, as say the BEnchmark DAC supposedly does. So I am hard pressed to conclude that the problem was due to jitter.
Also, many who try the BEnchmark, which supposedly does address jitter, still often complain about a harsh digital sound.
The best thing I can assume here is that assuming the BEnchmark does address jitter, at least the addressable jitter introduced during playback, then maybe it is the crisp transient response possible with digital that irritates some.
Some believe that it is just the inherent limits of resolution of the Redbook format that is the problem but that has neer been an issue for me.
I am very interested in understanding these factors relating to digital rigs better, so please if anyone ca offer me any additional insights, please do! |
Shadorne,
The description of beat frequencies fits what I heard.
It was very consistent though with many CDs I played even listening in different rooms on different speaks to the same source.
I never heard it in several high end reference systems I listened to at the time.
Changing to the Paradisea from the Denon's built in DAC seemed to end it, so I suspect it was some artifact resulting from the Denon's DAC.
Jitter is a mysterious bugger indeed! |
Rbstehno is right.
Like most gadgets, all that really matters is if you hear a difference for the better thats worth it to you.
If it works, who cares how it did it? |
I'd be skeptical of any device, like PCs, not specifically designed for good sound.
DACs like the benchmark and others that re-clock during upsampling would seem to be the way to go when the source is a generic computer.
From the sound of it in my system, the Roku Soundbridge seems to do a very good job caching/buffing the bits received over the wireless connection from the laptop PC server and then providing the clock and delivering bits at the right time to the mhdt tube DAC.
The Roku has been a fantastic $129 investment for my system. |
Rbstehno,
I know a PC can provide a good digital source because I am doing exactly that in my system alongside feeding from a CD player/transport.
In my case though the true source from the DACs perspective is the Roku Soundbridge, which is a device designed for good sound at its price point. The laptop computer source is not even known to the DAC.
I do think it is more hit or miss from computer to computer in general though, depending on details and specific configuration and topology, because different components and interface implementations exist in different computers and many, particularly older ones, are not necessarily designed for performance levels that audio buffs expect.
For $200, the Roku or other devices like it like the Squeezebox take source computer mostly out of the equation regarding sound quality, so it is a good approach in my mind.
Not to say some computers may offer up great sound directly as well. I'm sure some do but I'm not sure that all do.
I started out at first with an analog feed from my computer to my system. That was a halfway decent but ultimately flawed approach. Where I am at now is pretty much where I think most audiophiles would like to be.
"do you think that reading music off a cd player is any different than reading bits off a cd when loading a program onto your pc? "
No. Reading music versus other kinds of files from a CD optical, magnetic hard drive or even physical menmory is no different at all.
But re-constructing an analog signal in the DAC, based on the clock, is an additional scenario that comes into play after wards in digital sound reproduction. I believe different sources do this differently with varying degrees of accuracy. For example, USB uses a software driver. Some may be better than others I would suspect.
The result if the bits are not processed at the DAC at exactly the right time is jitter, as I understand it, and jitter frequencies and levels do affect the resulting sound. |
