O-10:
I agree about Christmas music. I am not into all these pop / Rock singers, and their "Christmas" albums. I prefer the traditional carols from England, Germany and the U.S.
There are a few secular exceptions to the sacred music. They are Johnny Mathis, Nat Cole and Fiedler/Williams and the Pops.
You can listen to Mathis in Texas, in August, and you will still look outside to see if it is snowing. He can really convey the Christmas season and Spirit.
I have the CD of that clip you sent. His version of 'O Holy Night' is awesome!! Nat Cole is in the same category. Love his 'Tannenbaum' For the fun, sleigh riding, modern stuff I reach for the Boston Pops.
I must confess I have two Jazz 'Christmas' CDs. One by Wynton Marsalis and the other by Oscar Peterson. Both very good for what they are.
Cheers |
Today's Listen:
Betty Carter & Ray Bryant -- MEET BETTY CARTER AND RAY BRYANT
Ray Bryant Trio: Bryant(p), Wendell Marshall(b), Philly Jo Jones(d).
This CD consists of three different recording dates. !9 tracks in all. 1-4 Carter backed by a large group, these tunes are from her album 'Social Call', 5-11, she is backed by Bryant's group, and on 12-19, Bryant's Trio without Carter.
Recorded in 1955-56. Very young players. Nice photos. They look like they looked in Nica's book.
Very good performances. I liked the tunes by the Trio without Carter the best. Nothing against her, she was great, but Bryant could really do his thing better without the vocals. This player is really steeped in the Blues. Very dynamic player. One of my favorites. Never makes a bad record.
Mostly standards. Very nice 'Moonlight in Vermont', but, as good as she did it, Billie has made that tune hers and hers alone. Good sound quality. Perfect for late night listening.
The liner notes say this is Bryant's first recording. This was sort of like an introduction to the Jazz public. Recorded the same year the 12" LP was introduced.
My first Jazz Album, if memory serves, was Ray Bryant's 'Slow Freight'. Still have the LP, but no CD!!
Recommended.
Cheers |
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Thanks! But, I have always been on the same train. I think the difference is that you took the EXPRESS; I took the LOCAL. ;-) |
The Frogman.
To name such a distinguished prize 'no blues, no Jazz', Surely must imply agreement with the sentiment! Welcome aboard!
Cheers |
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The story that Diz told was that at his wife's birthday celebration a couple of dancers fell on his horn and bent it. He played it that night anyway, bent and all, and in spite of the fact that it was now harder to play he liked the sound. He then commissioned a trumpet with an upturned bell and the rest is history.
BTW, the trumpet player on that clip is not Dizzy. I guess it's time for the 3rd installment of the "Lobotomy Award". Who can name the trumpet player? As always, NO CHEATING! And to make things really interesting (in case someone cheats) whoever can name the saxophone player also wins the "No blues, no Jazz" prize. |
Hi O-10 - thanks for reposting those links. It made me realize I had heard of Willie Ruff also in the context of Yale, but never put two and two together that this was the same jazz horn player. I haven't Googled him, so I don't know if he is still living. He certainly hasn't been at Yale in decades now.
The one clip that had him playing horn was quite short, just the Stompin at the Savoy tune. Fine rendition, as far as it goes, doesn't really show off much improvisational skill. I don't have any albums of his other than the one I mentioned where he is playing hymn tunes in a church. I'd love to hear more of him, to really check out what he could do. It's possible that he didn't improvise a whole lot - he certainly would have learned that skill later in his horn playing life, judging from the comments he makes to Gumbel.
He certainly wasn't the best out there in the New York jazz scene back in the day, though this should not be taken to mean he was not a good player. The best jazz hornist out there was Julius Watkins - I have a few albums of his that he did as leader, though usually he was a side man, as pretty much most jazz horn players are. Robert Northern was another, and even Gunther Schuller played quite a bit of jazz on the side back in the day when he wasn't in the pit at the Metropolitan Opera. All three of these men appeared with Miles Davis, at least two of them on Birth of the Cool. Julius Watkins records are worth seeking out, though they are very hard to find and usually very expensive, being Blue Notes. There is one he did for Philips called French Horns For My Lady, all Quincy Jones arrangements. |
O-10
Great clips. Enjoyed them all. Esp Kirk's version of 'The Entertainer'. I bet Scott Joplin didn't know he wrote THAT!!
Dizzy's trumpet was not bent upwards. Do you know when, and why, he did that?
Cheers |
Rok, it wont be long before Mrs. Orpheus will be dragging out her Christmas collection, and it will consist of all the Carols we sang as kids; that's when I stuff my ears, smile and pretend I'm listening; but until that time, I gonna Bop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09BB1pci8_oEnjoy the music. |
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As my Baptist Pastor keeps telling me, "man can't live on Bop alone".
Here are my Christmas recommendations and recent acquisitions.
NEW:
A CARNEGIE CHRISTMAS CONCERT -- Battle, von Stade, Marsalis, Previn. CD and DVD!!! Esp DVD!! 100 Stars!
Only Ebenezer Scrooge could not love this one!!
CHRISTMASTIDE -- Jessye Norman
One of the greatest singers ever. On stuff like this she can sometimes be a little TOO operatic, but on this one, she comes down to earth, and it's just perfect. You gotta have it!
CHRISTMAS STAR -- The Cambridge Singers and Orch./ Rutter
Lot of English, German and French carols here. Sung with those unique English voices. Outstanding!. 22 Carols!
Old Favorites:
THE MANY MOODS OF CHRISTMAS -- Robert Shaw/Atlanta Orch & Chorus Telarc
MESSIAH -- Boston Baroque / Pearlman Telarc
MESSIAH -- Toronto Sym / Davis EMI
SONGS OF ANGELS -- Robert Shaw Chamber Singers Telarc
For those of you, Like O-10, that knock on the front door, when you stumble upon a church:
Silent Night from the Temptations Christmas CD.
Merry Christmas Baby - Charles Brown
Cheers
Messiah 'highlights', of course! :) |
When I was a child, my aunt had a big diamond in her ring that sparkled all the colors of the rainbow as you turned it under a bright light. Tired of me holding her finger and turning it, she took the ring off when she came home from work. I never tired of watching the brilliant sparkling colors that ring emitted. I just discovered "Rahsaan Roland Kirk" is exactly like that diamond, he sparkles endlessly; old LP's that I've had forever are emitting new colors. Today I was listening to the computer play list when the music really grabbed me. Although I knew it was Rahsaan, I still don't know the name of the tune because unlike CD's, cuts on Lp's aren't listed; therefore, I can only share with you some of his music that might be from that LP. Remember, when listening to Rahsaan it's not just his virtuosity on the unusual instruments he plays, but the totality of his music which is so different from everyone else's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAyStpDSNzs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWPUKskCv7EEnjoy the music. |
You guys crack me up. Glad you recognized the intended humor in posting that clip. Actually, I prefer your clip, O-10. |
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May 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. |
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I heard LvB at ther very beginning on piano, and at the end on guitar. But, as has been pointed out on this thread, I don't know how to listen.
Overall, not a bad piece of music. The could have dropped the pretense at LvB.
They seemed to be pretty impressed with themselves, and their playing. Judging by their facial expressions and body language.
Cheers |
Rok, Dallas Symphony is playing Beethoven's 9th in May of 2013 at the Mort. Not your Daddy's DSO. |
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Today's Listen:
Jimmy Smith & Wes Montgomery -- JIMMY & WES THE DYNAMIC DUO
I thought this would be a small group effort, but it turned out to be a big band thingy. Conducted by Oliver Nelson with Jimmy and Wes dueling out front.
A lot of good ones. Night Train, Road Song, Down by the Riverside, baby it's Cold Outside, etc... They all cook. The big band is only there when needed. They do not intrude on Jimmy and Wes as they push each other.
On this CD, both of these guys, are as good as I have ever heard them. They really do feed off each other. With arrangements by Nelson and personnel of the caliber of Clark Terry and Melba Liston, in the band, what's not to like.
Great Stuff.
Cheers |
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The Frogman / Learsfool:
Thanks for the input on Beethoven. After thinking about it, and I do think sometimes, since I have many 9th's on LP / CD, then the video is the thing I am most interested in. I want to SEE all this magic, that I have been listening to for so long. So video quality and camera work are most important.
The Christian Thielemann performance seems interesting.
The Ideal, would be Bohm-Viener-Domingo-Norman-Fassbaender, but I have not found a DVD of that one yet.
I do have Karajan-Berlin-1963-SACD. I thought that would be the ultimate, or at least the ultimate Karajan.
Thanks.
Now let us quickly return to Jazz, before the OP notices!
Cheers |
I have not heard (seen) the Abbado/Berlin, but I have not heard anything by Abbado that I have not liked; he is brilliant.
Two others to consider if the music is of top priority: Karajan/Berlin. There is something about Karajan's treatment of Beethoven that strikes a chord with me. I know some feel that it is stark with too much emphasis on precision; still, it somehow rings true for me. The sound is very good, the video less so with too much emphasis on the conductor. I know I am contradicting myself, given Bernstein's drama and theatricality, but my favorite and the one I own is Bernstein's 1989 performance celebrating the fall of the Berlin Wall. He conducted an orchestra comprised of members of orchestras from around the world and famously substituted the word " Freude" (Joy) with "Freiheit" (Freedom) in the chorale. Normally this kind of thing would piss off the purist in me, but the feeling of the importance and symbolism of the moment is palpable in this performance. I think it is the one to own. Both sound and video are very good. But not as good as what I heard/saw at my neighbor's place when he invited me over to check out his new 5.1 HT setup a few weeks ago. The audio and video on this Bluray release is spectacular, the music (interpretation) of this Christian Thielemann/Vienna DVD does not compare to either the Karajan or Bernstein with tempos that are too fast IMO. I'll take good sound with great music over great sound with good music any day. |
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Don't know about first rate audio and video, but a first rate performance is Claudio Abbado's with the Berlin Philharmonic. They did the whole Beethoven cycle on DVD about 10 years ago now. A very good set. |
Can anyone recommend a " DVD " of Beethoven's 9th? A performance you have seen on a TV and has first rate audio and video.
Thanks
Cheers
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Today's Listen:
Marcus Roberts -- ALONE WITH THREE GIANTS
Marcus Roberts Plays Solo Piano. The Three Giants are, Ellington, Monk and Jelly Roll Morton. All tunes are by these great players.
All 15 tunes are well known standards. Only three by Morton. :( The Ellington and Monk tunes are among their best. No filler here.
Roberts is out of New Orleans and it shows. Players from New Orleans seem to have a unique knowledge and feel for the music. Exquisite piano playing!!
The surprise to me was jelly Roll Morton's 'Crave'. Outstanding tune and playing. In this tune you can hear the shape of the music to come. Not sure if it was Roberts or Morton, but it gets a little Monk-ish! Great song!.
Excellent recording. No Faults. Solo piano can get tedious sometimes, but not here. This music will grab and hold you throughout.
I have notice that the closer we get to the source, New Orleans, the more songs with 'blues' in the title. A little food for thought, for my modernist / Internationalist friends, who never miss a chance to throw The Blues under the bus. :)
As a bonus to a certain Aficionado, the CD includes Monk's 'Pannonica". :)
Cheers |
Hi O-10 - I have once again missed a bunch of this thread - I have an album of Willie Ruff's that is very bizarre - he is playing hymn tunes pretty much by himself, some with an organ, in a very boomy church. Could you direct me to which link you are speaking of? I would definitely be interested to hear it! |
Rok, there is no way under the Sun that I'll comment on that page.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
As far as working people:
Back in the day Coleman Hawkins was rehearsing with Monk's group. Hawkins was complaining about the difficulty of the part he had to play in the tune. Monk said,"you supposed to be a saxophone player, ain't ya??? ahhahahahaha priceless.
Allow me to paraphrase: You and The Frogman are supposed to be Aficionados, ain't ya?
You should know all this stuff off the top of your head.
O-10: Page 93. What's up with that????
Cheers |
In the book, Charlie Mariano's wish was:
"I wish I had Bird's heart and technique. But who needs the technique? If I had Bird's heart, that would be enough."
Cheers
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Frogman, for a minute I actually thought that was Trane, Elvin Jones really made it sound convincing; he was with Trane when I saw them both. I'll have to get that.
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Rok, you really know how to make a guy work; first, out of all the people in that book, you pick somebody that I've never heard of, and ask me if he's related to somebody else that I've never heard of. The Ali Jackson in the book, was "senior" while his son was the drummer with Dee Dee Bridgewater, now I need a break; it's good Frogman answered the other question because it would take me a couple days to figure that one out.
Enjoy the music.
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****Is it that, they can't get what's in their head to come out of the instrument****
Exactly. They don't feel they have the technical mastery of their instrument (yet) to express the musical concepts that they "hear" in their heads; to translate them from the abstract to the concrete. These guys (most musicians) were/are always striving to grow as instrumentalists; it's a never ending process. That's the part of music and musicianship (the "nuts and bolts") that is seldom understood by the public. "Reputable" professions such as doctor, lawyer, etc. are known to require an incredible amount of study and preparation for many years; not only does it require even more than that to be an accomplished musician, it doesn't ever stop. |
O-10:
Page 93. WTF? :) Also, on page 96 there is an entry from an 'Ali Jackson'. There is player on my Dee Dee Bridgewater CD 'Live At Yoshi's' named Ali Jackson(d). I wonder if they are kin.
What do they mean when they say "I wish I could play the music in my head"? Is it that, they can't get what's in their head to come out of the instrument, or is it that, what's in their head would not be accepted in that current Jazz enviroment?
After reading a lot of the comments, it has occurred to me that most of these guys were still trying to 'make it' in Jazz. After I understood that, a lot of the Wishes were more understandable.
It appears as if Monk LIVED at the cathouse! Platonically of course! :)
In the same shipment I also received a CD by Cannonball Adderley titled, 'PHENIX' I have never seen or heard this Cannonball! His 'Bitches Brew'???? Will report soon.
Cheers |
Frog, Rok, Orpheus, et al - this is by far the most enjoyable thread I've followed on the Gon. I appreciate all your recommendations AND your banter! Great stuff.
Just picked up 4 Roland Kirk LPs plus a Charlie Mariano (in London no less - I consider this an epic shopping day!). They will be cleaned and spun on Saturday morning. Can't wait!
Keep it going, y'all...
Justin |
Learsfool, I'm dying to hear your comments on Willie Ruff and Dwike Mitchell; especially the French horn part.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, Nica liked to take pictures when her subjects were sound asleep, and they slept wherever they dozed off; the couch, a chair, even the floor. This was after a late night gig, and her pad was where they came to enjoy the camaraderie of other musicians. She had cats everywhere, and Monk hated cats but he never told Nica. On about page 46, there are two pictures of Monk, sound asleep with a cat sleeping on him. Although these pictures were taken at different times (different clothes) the same cat is sleeping on him. That cat had claimed Monk as his property whether Monk knew it or not.
There's a good picture of a young Lee Morgan, sound asleep. I find it hard to believe someone so young, was a giant among giants. I can only imagine what he would have accomplished, had he lived longer. That picture makes me realize that I always assumed he was much older, without even thinking about it.
Now when you listen to that compilation of the best decade in jazz, you can visualize the musicians at the same time.
Enjoy the music.
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Acman3:
Very nice stuff. Interesting both musically and historically. Let's just pray that his technique on horn is up to par. I would hate to see him suffer the wrath of Learsfool!
http://www.youtube.com/listen?v=A4dfV3CPnt0 Cheers
Happy Holidays!
Cheers |
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And Happy Thanksgiving to you too! |
O-10:
Got the 'Three Wishes' book yesterday. This is much more than I expected. This is really an eye opener for me.
The comments, the majority of them, seem to open and honest. And the photos are priceless! The Baroness was not much of a photographer and/or did not take care of the photos. But, in a way, that adds to the book. The people and their lives were not picture perfect either.
So far, the biggerst surprise is how often they wished they could play better. Could play what was in their head. Master their instrument. Wished Jazz was respected.
You cannot help but admire these guys. And nobody seemed to be getting rich. At least judging by the photos. In fact money/jobs was often mentioned.
I think this is a gem. Best book on Jazz / players I have so far. Thanks. Will have more to say as I read it.
Cheers |
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!
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Rok, this is the best compilation I've ever acquired, although I got a headache from reading about it; consequently, I'm doing more listening and less reading.
On CD 2, Kenny Dorham's "Afrodesia" was new to me. He failed to get the recognition he deserved. After checking the sidemen, I realized why this tune was so fantastic. Carlos "Potato" Valdes is someone I had forgotten about. All the other sidemen are stars in their own right.
While all the cuts on this CD are outstanding, "The Champ" by Jimmy Smith is another tune that caught my attention, and it was one of the few without well known sidemen.
Although I wasn't too impressed with the tune Carmen sang, I really liked the sound of her voice; since that was in 56, I'm going to get everything she recorded in that year.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
Just listened again to CD1 of the box set this morning. Speaking of sidemen? On these sets the sidemen are as accomplished as the leaders. It's like a who's who of Jazz.
The music on this disc seems to have less of an edge or attitude than that which would soon follow. I was surprised that Parker sounded so 'normal'? :)
I just love the fact that a very nice informative discussion of each number is included. Listing the members of the group and the LP the tune is taken from. This is a very good buy.
The only thing I don't like is that some of the pages of the booklet are difficult to read due to the background colors of some of the pages. They never seem to consider us old timers, or at least consider our eyes.
I noticed that Django/nuages, was followed by MJQ/Django. Cute. I also liked that the tunes were short. Except for Miles of course. His 'Walkin' was 5 times longer than the average tune. But, he be Miles!
Cheers |
Interesting conversation going on since I have looked in - I want to highlight some things that Frogman has said, starting with he is absolutely correct to say that one's reaction to music is subjective. There are many things about music that are not subjective. An analogy might be to food - many people love to eat things that aren't actually very good, and defend it by saying that taste is subjective.
This has to do also with this comment of Frogman's: "THAT, my friend, is why it's not possible to "know too much"; and why knowing a little is a dangerous thing. It's fine to always fall back on the comfort of "subjectivity", but in the broad scheme there is, in fact, a nut-and -bolts way judging any music's merit."
And also this: "Ignorance may be bliss, but it certainly does not lead to insight. Additionally, there is no glory in ignorance and knowledge does not in any way detract from the emotional appreciation of the music. That is a mistake that those content to remain "ignorant" of the nuts and bolts routinely make; that ignoring the facts somehow leads to a better emotional connection with the music. It is precisely the opposite; it leads to a better appreciation. The irony here is that the players that we are talking about, themselves, were/are so steeped in the nuts and bolts of the music and discussions about what made a particular player great or not, that it makes any of our "discussions" seem sophomoric. Listeners tend to over-romanticize the process of music making (including jazz) as a spiritual "calling of the muse". Only after a very deep understanding of the nuts and bolts can a creative artist find his voice; wether the nuts and bolts was learned in a music school or the jam session. Why should it be any different for the listener?"
Rok stated a little later that " I should know that improvisation is taking place, without having to be an expert on nuts and bolts."
While this statement is actually true, nevertheless the fact that you were not able to tell quite frankly says more about your listening ability/general musical knowledge than it does about the performer and/or writer of what you are listening to. A very small amount of work would quickly remedy this, you just have to put in the effort, and if you do, the rewards in understanding and appreciation of the music you love are far greater than the small effort required. I'm not saying you need a theory degree or anything, you just need to learn to listen a little more attentively than you think you are (talking about how to do this will have to wait). Please do not take this personally, it is not at all meant that way - it's late and I am tired, and I tend to come off with a different tone than I intend, and I apologize for that. |
Hi guys - sorry, been very busy. Now have a few days off, but will be going to visit my folks for Thanksgiving, so will probably be off the board again.
Orpheus - yes, as I believe Rok said, those are mellophones. By the way, the term Stan Kenton uses in that video is incorrect, he calls them something weird like mellophoniums. Anyway, they are basically large trumpets that have a mellower sound, closer to my instrument in tone quality. Larger than the fluglehorn, which you may be more familiar with, as that is used much more in jazz than the mellophones were, and the sound of a flugle horn is closer to the trumpet sound than the mellophone is. In fact, I think Stan Kenton's band was the only one that used mellophones on anything like a regular basis. They are most commonly used in marching bands. The trumpet players in that video were playing them, however in many marching bands, an extension is put into the lead pipe of the instrument so that a French horn mouthpiece can fit, and then horn players play them. They are truly awful instruments, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. In recent years, an instrument called the marching French horn has been invented to replace mellophones, so they are not used much at all anymore. They were quite common, though, nothing unusual about them, in fact I think it is unusual that you haven't ever seen one - you probably have in marching bands without realizing it.
In the two years I spent in a high school marching band before I escaped to an arts academy, I had to play the mellophone. Miserable experience. I have played some Stan Kenton charts that had mellophone parts in pops concerts, though we played them on our regular horns. They were screaming high, so were not very pleasant to play. Decent enough charts. That was a very popular band, guys like Maynard Ferguson and other famous trumpet players came out of it. Nothing particularly interesting about it from a purely musical standpoint, frankly, but they did have some good tunes. |
O-10:
Both of the Stan Kenton tunes were disappointments. Mainly the sound quality and the arrangements.
We had Mellow-phones in our marching band, but they looked sort of like French horns.
I LOVE Malaguena. I wore out a few '101 Strings' LPs playing that tune.
I also just LOVE Drum and Bugle Corps. Used to be televised down here. Some of the top units used to stop here and practice at the locl High School.
Here is the best of Both worlds!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECUpJuUeAQ
Cheers |
