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Been away for a while; hope everyone is well and doing lots of listening. The subject of the pit musician is one which very close to home so I wanted to have time to do the subject justice. The "pit musician" Orpheus refers to is not the same pit musician that Rok refers to. Orpheus was impressed by a player known as a "doubler". The term usually refers to woodwind, or reed, players who double on multiple woodwind instruments. While good doublers will excell on all flutes, clarinets and saxophones, most have a particular strength on one of those instruments. Additionally, some will also be able to play one of the double reeds: oboe or bassoon. Double reed doublers are very in demand; particularly in Broadway pits. Orchestrators for musical theater, and other commercial music productions, expect woodwind players to be proficient doublers; and, as a result of the continuing reduction in the size of pit orchestras (due to financial considerations), they really exploit doublers' flexibility by sometimes writing extremely busy parts with very quick changes from one instrument to another. The level of proficiency in the "doubling world" has risen dramatically over the last couple of decades. This has been a result of better training and also of the continued scarcity of work for many musicians. There was a time, not long ago, when there was so much, more glamorous and lucrative, work for commercial musicians in the recording studios and radio and television staff orchestras, that the best players did not take "pit work". As staff orchestras disappeared and studios closed, these players moved to the pit orchestras with a resulting dramatic rise in the level of proficiency in the pits. These are very good and extremely versatile players who are often also good jazz improvisers. But, the truth is that it is rare the woodwind player that, in spite of tremendous technical and stylistic flexibility, can play any one woodwind instrument at the same extremely high level that a successful orchestral ("straight") wind player can. Classical orchestra players have always set the standard for proficiency on an instrument in absolute terms; and are often revered by "doublers". It is not surprising, given the tremendous amount of training and practice that is required to reach that very exalted level of proficiency on ONE instrument; let alone several. At the same time, the accomplished "doubler's" stylistic flexibility can sometimes give him the edge over a "straight" player when a specific stylistic approach is required for a part in an orchestration. This need for stylistic flexibility applies to all players, not just woodwind players. It is common nowadays for Broadway pit orchestra brass sections, for instance, to be composed of players who also work as extras in the Lincoln Center Orchestras (NY Phil, Met, ballet, etc.), and/or prominent jazz bands. There have been a few heroes in the woodwind doubling world that have been able to reach, on more than one instrument, the level of proficiency of great orchestral players; they have usually been clarinet/saxophone doublers. The greatest of them all was the great Alfred Galladoro who was an amazing saxophone and clarinet virtuouso, and was on staff at NBC and played in Toscanini's NBC Symphony, member of Paul Whiteman's orchestra and recorded extensively as a soloist and sideman, among many other accomplishments. Well past his prime, but here is a charming video of Al before his passing a couple of years ago: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr6ynMTuHn4IMO, the greatest doubler of all time, and one who was able to add equally proficient flute to his arsenal (although he has more recently concentrated on the clarinet) is the incredible Eddie Daniels who played in the Broadway pits before gaining recognition as a soloist in, among others, the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis big band (the Village Vanguard Jazz Orchestra of today). He posseses an uncanny ability to move from a classical music sensibility to jazz and pop: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GTUCtf8txQwEddie on tenor: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bm44p04SVYThe "pit musician" that Rok refers to is the classical player who happens to work in a ballet or opera orchestra pit. They are, as instrumentalists, generally of the same extremely high caliber that most orchestral players are. Playing in a ballet or opera orchestra requires a somewhat specific sensibility compared to orchestral playing on a concert hall stage. This is primarily due to the fact that, generally, the orchestra is accompanying the singers or dancers; but, this point can be easily overstated. However, a particularly keen sense of restraint and flexibility is sometimes required playing in an opera orchestra. Still, the orchestral repertoire, as a whole, puts more extreme technical demands on players than much of the opera or ballet repertoire. They are somewhat different disciplines, but both on an equally high level. The term "pit musician" unfortunately possesess negative connotations for purists who consider playing on the concert hall stage the pinnacle of instrumental playing. While this may be true to an extent, in reality it's a much more complex issue than that. |
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I can't understand why Ry Cooder's music would make a person want to kill themselves. However, I fully understand why living in East St Louis would. :)
Cheers |
Hi Orpheus - that cover of Jaws is hilarious, I had never heard that before. |
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"Paris Texas" is the most depressing music I've ever heard. When, and if I feel like hanging myself, I'll be sure and play "Paris Texas" to make sure I don't change my mind. That's no reflection on Ry Cooder who's all over the map in music; I mean that literally, from Rangoon to Cancun, you'll find "Ry Cooder", he's even all over Africa, Ry get's around. He's even been to E. St. Louis, that Ry guy gets around. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=050TIMlpmL0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BUTqnmVIHkEnjoy the music. |
Another great song from theme music. Paris, Texas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yF5DWFSBTY
Cheers |
Mission Impossible is The greatest theme ever!!
Two themes I had to have, so I downloaded them: Mission Impossible and Peter Gunn.
Cheers |
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Speaking of Organ. German girl. I know she is the best looking and she can play. I have her on my to buy list.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPqYZNqg15g
Jimmy smith is my main man on B-3. Followed by Jack McDuff and Jimmy McGriff.
The stuff smith recorded with blue note was his best.
I never understood why the organ and trombone were not more prevalent is Jazz. I have several by J.J. Johnson and a few by Al Grey.
A CD with Johnson and Kai Winding is very good. (sweet georgia brown alert!!)
Cheers |
******For me, it's a pleasant nostalgic album*******
HERETIC: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : NONCONFORMIST
This be you!
Cheers |
Rok, there's nothing like a live organ, and I say "live" because not even the best rigs can duplicate the "howls and squeals" a Wild man on organ can generate. I've found the best examples I could find of "wild men", but they come up way short. Although these are the same organ players I heard "live", there is no way to duplicate what I heard. These guys could exhilarate, and mesmerize a crowd of people like you wouldn't believe. I know, because I was one of the "mesmerizees", and I can testify to that fact. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK3lNoHrkLc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vILXAc_eO0Enjoy the music. |
For me, it's a pleasant nostalgic album, and from what I remember, it was far more impressive to my friend who bought it; some people are more in tune to Miles music than others.
Lovely pictures of sweet memories flowed past in my mind like a movie of better times that I would like to relive when I heard the sweet sound of Miles horn, and I found the nostalgic aspect of this album to outweigh all others. In regard to the best ever, "I don't think so". That would be a different album every night for a week, depending on my mood.
"Otherwise Coltane's solos would be longer than the entire CD;" try 45 minutes of "My Favorite Things" live. McCoy Tyner, Elvin Jones and the bass man were trying to keep it together, while Trane went out into the nether regions.
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Listen:
Miles Davis -- KIND OF BLUE
Davis(trumpet),Cannonball(alto sax), Coltrane(tenor sax), Wynton Kelly & Bill Evans (piano), Paul Chambers(bass), James Cobb(drums)
I assume everyone and their brother has this recording. It is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest Jazz recordings ever. I thought I would 'review' it and tell everyone WHY, it is, or is not, the greatest ever.
I listened to it several times. Each time I tried to write about it, the words seemed inadequate. I thought it was great without being to explain why I thought so.
I said, great tune selection, and not too many(5) or too few. Too many dilutes the playing, and too few leads to overblown very long solos.
I said the solos were complex but sounded simple and eloquent. I said the soloist never played at the same time. In other words, no clutter and no filler.
I said someone(miles) was obviously in charge, otherwise Coltane's solos would be longer than the entire CD.
I said all the entire performance seemed to flow seamless. The tunes seemed connected by style and dynamic range.
The rhythm section was awesome. Essential support, but never in the way of the masters.
I think all this is true but does not make it the greatest ever. So I did some searching and found this review online:
*****In the documentary drummer Jimmy Cobb -- the only surviving participant -- stated that he didn't understand why KIND OF BLUE stands out above any of Miles' many other outstanding albums. Perhaps it is because the user-friendly music satisfies the listener at whatever level they prefer. If you want to get emotively involved with the music, it leads you there. If you're a musician looking to pick apart the music, you'll discover a level of sophistication attained by very few. If you want to relax, the music is soothing on its surface. If you want to hear memorable improvisations, Miles and his sidemen lead the way by avoiding the use of cliched phrases. If you want to hear teamwork, the musicians know how to create together (when to play and when NOT to play). If you want something timeless, the music's freshness has no expiration date. Yet if you have a nostalgic twinge for the cool, acoustic jazz of the 1950s, this album will take you back in time.******
I think this guy nailed it. But I want to hear what the AFICIONADOS that contribute to this thread think. I know you have it, so listen to it, and share your thoughts.
The greatest? Hmmmmmm, there's still 'Blues and the Abstract Truth' to consider. And others. I reserve comment for now. :)
Cheers |
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Are you dissing disco?
cheers |
I enjoyed half of your change, the first half; that's Aretha's song. I really liked the way they dressed. Too many people look like "bums" wherever you go now. This is just the kind of change I was thinking about, but a little more in the jazz vein. Do you remember Eddie Jefferson, and King Pleasure, I was thinking about them.
Enjoy the music.
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If I may, a slight change of pace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I3QZIM7dNk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPwwaoShG-A
Cheers |
Zoot Coltrane! I'm still laughing! Jutta Hipp is a name I remember, and I don't know where from. Between Horace Silver and Bobby Timmons, there's no way I would make a choice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuM75h_vRC0This is what I found on "you tube", but I still don't know where I remember the name from. Back in the day, we would go from one pad to the next, spinning albums, consequently I've heard many albums I can't remember. Enjoy the music. |
Zoot Sims seems to be good player, but I could never get past his name. I see ZOOT, and I think Vaudville. Some guy in a plaid suit. :) Silly but true. I understand that is not his birth name. He should have stuck with the birth name. Can you image a Zoot Coltrane!!
He did make a record with JUTTA HIPP. A female Jazz piano player from Germany. Eventually found her way to NYC. I have one of the few LPs she made. I think she only made three. I have her 'At The Hickory House Vol 1.
She quit Jazz because she suffered too much anxiety playing with the big boys. Horace Silver et al. She quit Jazz and became a seamtress!
I was listening to The Jazz Messengers last nigth. 'Jazz messengers at the Cafe Bohemia. With Horace Silver, Kenny Dorham and Hank Mobley. They made the set.
Cafe Bohemia must be quite a place. That's where the Mingus performance was recorded.
Cheers |
Rok, when I was in El. A. In the early 70's, there was incredible jazz in lounges everywhere. While Zoot Sims was famous, most of the musicians I saw were unknown, but could jam as well as the best in our collections. From what I could surmise, they didn't want to go on the road and leave El. A.; besides, they were making a good living. Although Zoot has better music, it's not on video, and this lounge gives you the feel of El. A. at that time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eqs3-5_A0Here's the real deal, back in the groove. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEFaBKok1jgEnjoy the music. |
******* He quickly discovered that he needed tailor made musicians, those are the ones who could hear and play his music which was so radically different at that time. He tailor made Dannie Richmond's drums to fit his music, because a traditional time keeping drummer couldn't work with such radically quick shifting times.********
So true. Monk faced a similar situation. I think Charlie Rouse stayed with him for years. He understood Monk and his music.
Cheers |
O-10:
Two of my favorites. I never thought ANYONE, could perform them better than the babes that sing with the Sergio Mendes group
Sergio who?? Makeba has made these songs her own.
She not only sang them well, if you listen closly to her tone and her phrasing on 'mas que nada' she actually made it African.
I will have to see what is avalabile on CD at Amazon. I have a lot of her on LP, but only one CD.
She was a favorite on mine back in my Joan Baez / Buffy Saint Marie, days.
Great recommendations.
Cheers |
Rok, this is a diamond in the rough. It illustrates how fast Mingus learned because it's a long way from the polished diamond which is "Mingus Ah Um". He quickly discovered that he needed tailor made musicians, those are the ones who could hear and play his music which was so radically different at that time. He tailor made Dannie Richmond's drums to fit his music, because a traditional time keeping drummer couldn't work with such radically quick shifting times. Now, I'm going to get back in another groove with one of my favorite female vocalist, Miriam Makeba. When she was young, like here, her voice just exhilarated me. I definitely don't have enough Miriam Makeba. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oztzZu5zPzs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4dT7l7sWVgThis was when all the best female vocalists were in fine form, including the sexy Brazilians, and Miriam Makeba still stood out; she was "electrifying", and my body resonated in harmonic sympathy with the sound of her voice. Enjoy the music. |
Todays' Discovery:
Charles Mingus -- MINGUS AT THE BOHEMIA
features: Mingus(bass),Eddie Bert(trombone), George Barrow(tenor Sax), Willie Jones(drums), and Max Roach as special guest on drums.
The first step on the road to 'Ah Um', 'Oh Yeah', 'At Antibes' et al. Recorded at Cafe Bohemia, NYC DEC 1955.
Comments by Nat Hentoff, Down Beat, state that "This was Mingus' first recording with a working band of his own. The group was also the first to carry the Mingus Jazz Workshop Banner."
So this is very, very early Mingus. It you listen you can hear a little of what is to come. The music just sounds familiar. Now, not then. This was cutting edge stuff then.
Eight tracks. No throwaways here. 'Septemberly', 'All the Things you C#', and 'Jump Monk' feature exceptional playing.
Mingus does a very nice duet with Max Roach, on a tune called 'percussion discussion.' Mingus on Bass.
'All the things that you C#' contains elements of 'all the things you are' and Rachmaninov's 'prelude in C# minor' and a little dash of 'Clair de Lune.'
On the alt take of C#, he stopped the band, and restarted them after a little admonishment. hahhaha Gotta be Mingus! The guy was worst than Monk!!
Check it out. Any Mingus / Jazz fan has to have it.
Cheers |
Rok, we agree on all counts. Although I have Mulligan on LP, I was wondering if it was the same one, and as far as I can tell it is. I hope the one I have is on CD, because the sonics are excellent. Since Amazon only gives "used" LP, I don't know; but there are also "down loads". Since that's the best cut on the LP, and none of the rest of them quite come up to "I'm Gonna Go Fishin", "down load" isn't a bad idea.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10: All three youtubes were very good. The Mulligan cut was let down by poor sonics, but great playing.
Peggy Lee? You don't have to say alot. She was one of the best ever.
Annie Ross? I have several of her with LH&R. The songs she sang here, I have played a zillion times. Joe Williams was an added treat. And did you notice, the Basie septet. :)
The word 'Hip' fits Ross and LH&R like a glove. Talk about 'sophisticated' Jazz. That would be Annie & Company.
Cheers |
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For those who want to hear it as it's supposed to be done, look up the CD "Jazz in a R&B Groove vol 1" I could not find it on youtube. One of the best CDs I own.
But I did find one of the singers that appears on that CD. Irene Reid. See the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaf0oPqtp8U
As Acman3 alluded to, and I have said many times, the group backing the singer is EVERYTHING.
That means the ultimate would be Ella backed by Basie.
But, do check out Miss Reid on the link. If for no other reason than to hear and see the Basie band.
On the 'R&B Groove' CD she sings 'what a difference a day make' instead of 'day makes'. Used to drive me nuts for a long time. I don't even hear it now. :)
Cheers |
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I enjoyed reading the lyrics more than I did hearing June Christy sing them. She is a good singer, but the music and her voice had no dynamic range. Didn't reach out and get my attention.
Chris Conners? Sometimes 'Cool' Jazz can be a little too 'cool'. There has to be a little fire and heat. Billie excelled at that.
Cheers |
Been a big fan of Bobby's for decades! 2010's 'VOCAbularieS' is one of the greatest achievements in vocals-only music I've ever heard. Somehow, it feels like something so beyond acapella that I hesitate to call it that. Coincidentally, this weekend I picked up his latest; 'spirityouall' from my local library so I'm looking forward to giving it a listen later on during this wet Labor Day in Fl. on the main rig! Because don'tchaknow Bobby's music is always impeccably recorded and an audio treat! |
I was listening to June Christy "Something Cool", and it hit me just how sad that song was; but before you can realize this, you must first picture the setting. It was at a time when people didn't have A/C at home, and the only places to cool off were at a lounge, or movie theater. This attractive young lady just casually left home to pop into a lounge and cool off. She sat next to a young man who bought her a drink, as was the custom then; that's when she began running down her life story in order to impress him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn8EtaxGJP0Something Cool Lyrics Something cool, Something cool, Something cool, I'd like to order something cool! Something cool, (something cool) I'd like to order something cool, (something cool) It's so warm here in town, And the heat gets me down, Yes, I'd like something cool! (something cool) My! It's nice to simply sit and rest awhile, Now I know it's a shame, I can't think of your name, I remember your smile! I don't ordinarily drink with strangers, I most usually drink alone. You were so awfully nice to me, And I'm so terribly far from home. Like my dress? I must confess it's terribly old, But it's simple and neat, It's just right for the heat, Save my furs for the cold! A cigarette? Well I don't smoke them as a rule, but I'll have one, It might be fun With something cool! I'll bet you couldn't imagine That I one time had a house With so many rooms I couldn't count them all! I'll bet you couldn't imagine I had fifteen different beaus Who would beg and beg to take me to a ball. I'll bet you couldn't picture me The time I went to Paris in the Fall, And who would think the man I loved was quite so handsome, Quite so tall? Well it's true, (something cool) It's just a memory I have, (something cool) One I almost forgot 'Cause the weather's so hot! And I'm feeling so bad (something cool) About a date, Oh wait! I'm such a fool! He's just a guy Who's stopped to buy Me something cool! It's really a beautiful song until it get's to the end, that's when you realize how sad it is. Next is another lady I like late at night, "Chris Conners". Her version's of "All About Ronnie" is my favorite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13T2SiP6qRAEnjoy the music. |
Bobby McFerrin is also well known as a huge supporter of his fellow musicians of all stripes. A very good guy as well as good musician. |
I've been following Bobby every since I discovered he was an accomplished musician who uses his instrument, the same as any horn player; his instrument, which is his voice, is even more versatile than a horn. The soundtrack from the movie "Round Midnight" is another good display of Bobby McFerrins versatility.
Enjoy the music.
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Bringing Bobby McFerrin into the conversation is like opening up an entire new genre. He does not fit in any box.
I have him with Yo-Yo Ma on the CD "Hush". Every track is unique.
He does "Spain" with Corea and "Another Night In Tunisa" with the Manhattan Tranfer. Both are exceptional.
That's one of the best things about mentioning any artist, it allows / reminds us to see what they have done lately. There is a lot more to McFerrin than "don't worry be happy"
In many ways he reminds me of Roland Kirk and Nina Simone. Kirk, because he is so uniquely compelling and Nina because, like her, he says so much, and says it with minimal accompaniment.
After visiting Amazon, I put a few of his in my cart.
Cheers |
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Chick Corea -- Solo Piano STANDARDS
The title says it all. Corea playing standards. Normally solo piano gets sort of tedious after a few tracks. Not this time. The recording, playing and piano are all top notch.
A lot of Monk and Bud Powell stuff here. I favor the Monk tunes : Monk's Dream, Blue Monk, Ask Me Now and 'Round Midnight. Corea also does a delightful interpretation of "Brazil" to close out the set.
Played at the proper volume, i.e. LOUD, this is an aboslutely wonderful record. Great dynamics.
This is the second CD of a 2-CD release. Th first one is entitled "solo piano Originals" I don't know why I didn't get it also. I will now.
Check it out. Not sure youtube will do it justice.
Cheers |
Hang around this thread long enough, even a white boy like me could get educated. Yeah... I know. Not PC. Too bad. Heard a Euphonium for the first time live only recently. In church. Beautiful sounding instrument. The kid playing had great tone. Got to check out Roland Kirk. Heard the name don't know his music. |
Acman3, thank you for pointing out Cedar Walton. Like so many musicians I have in my collection, his name didn't just instantly pop up, but after examining his "discography", I discovered he's very well represented in my collection, and now I'll listen exclusively for his piano.
Enjoy the music.
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Freddie Hubbard- Forced my Dad to go see him when I was visiting my folks in L.A. My Dad played some trumpet in school and some local plays when he was young, but he had never heard Freddie. My Dad told me a while back that, when he thinks of his time in LA, 2-3 years, that night is his first memory. Cedar Walton- For some reason, his loss hurts a little more than normal. One of my favorites. RIP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9pccmxOn5c |
Rok, I want your e-mail address. If you follow these instructions, I can copy it and take it down after I get it.
Go to http://wealthisbeingtranfered.wordpress.com/ Click replies Click 'Enter your comment here' and fill out comment with email address Enter email and name in form below Click post comment
Enjoy the music.
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Roland Kirk -- BLACKNUSS
What can one say? Some soul, some Blues, some R&B, some gospel, some other stuff and a whole lot of Roland kirk.
The man is a magical genuis. All of the songs except the title track are covers of well known songs.
All are done in a manner that could only be done by Roland. "ain't no sunshine" and "old rugged cross" are my favorites.
This youtube is an example of the 'other stuff'. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV4CBG6I58g Done by Princess Patience Burton.
Cissy Houston also sings on "never can say goodbye".
It may not be Jazz as we expect it, but it is Roland Kirk, and that's good enough for me, and should be enough for any Jazz Fan.
Watch the youtube thingy. You'll like it.
Cheers |
Orpheus, that was definitely on the bizarre side. Even more so, though, would be the recording with that group plus four trombones that was mentioned in the comment below!!
I'll have to ask our harp player if she has ever heard of Dorothy Ashby. I'm partial to Harpo Marx, myself. :) |
Jimmy Scott -- MOOD INDIGO
A truly unique talent. The epitome of a Song Stylist. 10 songs, all well known standards, from Mood Indigo to How Deep is the Ocean.
Backing group includes Hank Crawford, Cyrus Chestnut, Joe Beck etc....Gregoire Maret does great work on Harmonica.
Crawford and Chestnut are the perfect type players for Scott's style of singing.
Scott had a rough time of it in the music business. He often times didn't even get paid. His trusting and honest nature seems to come thru in his voice. Great for his art, but very bad when dealing with the sharks in the music business.
Every Jazz fan should own some Jimmy Scott. I have several CDs and they are all exceptional performances without a weak track in the lot.
Give him a listen.
Cheers |
Rok this is the first time I ever even heard of a "euphonium", and if it was the last time, my feelings wouldn't be hurt.
"Birdlike", certainly reminds me of Bird. Sometime ago, I told you I was looking for new music, this music is new all over again. My search has ended, let's find some more "new music".
Enjoy the music.
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Take Two:
Freddie Hubbard -- READY FOR FREDDIE
Hubbard(trumpet),McKinney(euphonium)WTF???,Wayne Shorter(tenor Sax), Art Davis (bass), McCoy Tyner(piano).
As The O-10 previously pointed out,(stealing my thunder in the process), good straight ahead Bebop.
There was a time when I felt Miles Davis was the Alpha and Omega of Jazz trumpet. No more.
I was a little late 'discovering' Freddie Hubbard. My loss. He is for sure among the top trumpet players ever.
Three of the five tunes are by Hubbard and they are the best on the CD. The aptly named "Birdlike" is the best cut. It and "Crisis" rise above the typical BlueNote stuff.
I don't get the Euphonium, seems to me that if they wanted another horn, someone like, Al Grey on trombone would have been a better fit.
McKinney plays well, it's just that the tone of the instrument does not seem to add much to the proceedings.
Tyner is the consummate sideman. Giving just what is needed. I guess he learned to be low key playing with the biggest ego in Jazz, Coltrane.
Shorter comes close to stealing the show, esp on "Birdlike". I guess that would be fitting.
The rhythm section keeps everything moving, even the tuba guy. Elvin Jones is another great on drums.
Overall, a very good Blue Note outing. But with the talent avalabile during that time, it was sort of difficult to make a bad record.
O-10 says it's on youtube. Check it out. Esp "Birdlike"
Cheers |