A terrible shame. And to think that he died because the doctors at the hospital where he was taken thought that the diabetic coma that he was suffering was a reaction to substance abuse since he was, after all, a jazz musician; they then waited for the drugs to "wear off". Like a strange new cuisine; strange flavors and too hot, but after a few bites you understand and appreciate it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmdhSq5Hp6w&list=PLE59E566FD18327CA |
All of you have been on your A game the last couple of days! Wow, sweet!
On the Mingus "A Train" clip, Eric Dolphy would be dead in 2 short months. |
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The OP's favorite singer, singing his favorite song. The whole thing was wasted on that crowd. That audience was in dire need of a few 'aficionados'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agp2on83hrAIt must be hard to perform when so many seem disinterested. Cheers |
Both "A-Train" clips are great. In Fact, I just happened to listen to the Mingus/Dolphy clip yesterday. But The Delta Rhythm Boys win by a landslide!! Just tooooo many Foxes!!!
Cheers |
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I knows my Trane. :)
Cheers |
Exactly right; at 2:30. Excellent!
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Roland Kirk clip: I thought I heard "My Favorite Things" at 2:30. I pray I'm correct, cause I don't wanna suffer the wrath and ridicule of The Frogman! :)
Cheers
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Rahsaan WAS amazing! One of a kind. I think McCoy (and Rahsaan) were definitely channeling Trane in that performance. McCoy with chord voicings reminiscent of his work with Trane's Qt., and Rahsaan with......Well, let's have some fun. Now that you are noticing connecting phrases in solos (Morgan/Golson), can you tell what tune Rahsaan quotes in his solo that is the dead giveaway that he is thinking "Trane!"?
Hint: the tune Rahsaan is playing is in 4/4 time, the one that he quotes is in 3/4 time (waltz); which makes the quote that much more interesting.
In fun only. |
In case you didn't believe your ears, maybe you will believe your eyes. Clarke just has to be the most laid back bassist in Jazz. Reminds me of the Ferrell clip. I wonder if McCoy is not thinking, "Damn, and I thought Trane was weird!!" But he is amazing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiI2ZHmxPPoCheers |
O-10:
It is a great clip. Almost like you're there. Notice at 3:56 as Morgan ends his solo, Golson then repeats Morgan's ending phrase as the beginning of his solo.
The Frogman pointed out a similar thing in another clip quite a while ago.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Cheers |
Rok, once the full impact of that video hit me, it almost brought tears to my eyes. This is the first time I ever saw all those stars together, making some of the best jazz that's ever been made, on one of the best jazz albums that's ever been made.
Jazz performances are like snowflakes, they can never be duplicated. No matter how many times the title track "Moanin" was made, and no matter who made it, none of them can compare to that performance at that time.
Each "jazz classic" is a part of my history; that was released just before I joined the Air Force, and no one knows better that you about the good times a young service man can have. That album could serve as the soundtrack for a movie of my life at that time; while there was some "Moanin", there were also quite a few "Bettys" that came along to brighten up the day.
And to think Lee Morgan was not yet 21 when that album was made, is an indication of his musical accomplishments that were to come.
Enjoy the music.
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Acman3:
I listened to "East Broadway Run Down" last night. Very good. Every note counted.
Rollins was brilliant as always, but gotta give a shout out to the rhythm section. Esp the bass player.
I esp liked 'Blessing in Disguise'. Made a mountain out of a mole hill. Awesome.
Cheers |
Acman3, thanks for the Sonny Rollins clip. I too love that record. It's really amazing how two icons of the tenor saxophone can both be so influential and yet so different. If I was forced to pick my favorite desert-island tenor player, Sonny would probably be it. I find this record particularly interesting because there are many times when I wonder if, because of his choice of rhythm section, he always felt like he was a little bit in Trane's shadow and tried to play like him. I don't think that playing free or "out" came as naturally to him as it did to Trane, but he sounds fantastic as always; and no glue (piano)! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gActLqZZX68 |
Tubegroover, thanks for posting the Trane documentary. Fantastic stuff and should be required viewing. What an amazing force in music he was! |
"Besame mucho" is one of the most beautiful Latin tunes, IMO; and I really like this version by Evora. The tune is not Brazilian at all (although Evora is from Cape Verde a Portuguese ex-colony); and, while the tune is often thought to be Cuban (since it was written as a Cuban rhumba) it was actually written by a Mexican composer. Here is the composer herself playing it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kIJZSs2gxdoMore often than not it is performed as a Cuban "bolero". This is a beautiful rendition in that lighter style: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C-0geZkFHKEBTW, on the Baden Powell clip the flute that Rok asks about is simply an alto flute; a flute in the key of G, being larger and lower in pitch. The reason that it looks so different is that some models of the instrument are made with a curved head joint. The length of the tube is the same, but by curving it the player doesn't have to reach out as far to reach the keys; they are particularly popular with women who don't have as long a reach as men. |
****Coltrane's LEO: The CIA uses that tune at Gitmo.****
Trane-boarding! :-) |
Today's Listen: I have a lot of Peterson, but I am missing his stuff with the Trumpet players, save Clark Terry. Look hard enough and you will always find something to buy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJj7rii0YRACheers |
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C1ferrari: A little input from folks like you, will ensure that it continues to flourish.
BTW, Awesome system.
Cheers |
O-10:
Nice tune. Brazilian music is so light, and with such infectious rhythms and percussion playing. It's all good. Besides, she is a Fox, albiet, a heavily made-up Fox.
Did you check out the Flute? What do it be?
Thanks for the clip.
Cheers |
I discovered this, thought it might be of interest to the conversation around Coltrane lending greater insight to the man his early influences and evolution.
"Trane's music was like a train moving forward; with a direction that was unstoppable, if not a runaway train."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOJj4YXWPLI |
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May this thread continue to flourish... |
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The Frogman:
Coltrane's LEO: The CIA uses that tune at Gitmo.
Cheers |
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If you think gunplay because of a dispute over chord changes is an indication of passion, I would hate to see what some folks I know would do (to you) after hearing anything Coltrane played referred to as "just fine" :-) O-10, I have a pretty good idea of what you looked for on Youtube. and all I can say is that I envy you for having witnessed some of that. I suspect it was something more along these lines: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL7D089D2C50E97018&v=Yy_3tYlT398BTW, enjoyed the Kenny Garret clip; thanks. |
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As hard as I looked, I couldn't find any examples of the Trane I was talking about. This was a hip night club with a lot of musicians in the audience, so maybe Trane was showing them something special, but he never went quite that far out on any of the other live sets. The last 4 minutes of this set for 20 minutes is about as close as I can get. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03juO5oS2gg Enjoy the music. |
Yes, Frogman is absolutely correct. What I was calling the abyss, was where Coltrane wanted to go. He had not lost his way, but was finding it. |
Interesting comments all; and, in keeping with the incredible depth, scope and inclusiveness of Trane's music, I think that there is truth in all of them.
While it is true that bringing new players in compounded the "problem", I am not sure that the inevitable can be seen as a problem. Trane's music was like a train moving forward; with a direction that was unstoppable, if not a runaway train. True, McCoy was the glue, but Trane didn't always want glue; notice how he often had the piano simply lay out and not play ("stroll"). His excursions were then with just drums; his music was very drum-centric. There was a lot of experimentation going on and it would be naive to think that it was all a love-fest. As Acman says, at times there was disagreement and displeasure with the choices that Trane made and the direction of his music. From "Chasin' The Trane" (highly appropriate title for this discussion and highly recommended book):
"When I knew them, Trane and Eric were listening to tribal recordings of South African pygmies. Trane was really into African Rhythms. He told me that each drummer has a certain rhythm to play and doesn't try to play all the rhythms at once. What he heard was several drummers playing polyrhythms" - Leon Thomas
And yet....
"Ain't playin' shit! Trane's got this jerk on drums with me and he's got me goin' for hours on one tune, wearin' me out. Still ain't playin' shit!" - Elvin (on Rashid)
"McCoy left John Coltrane in Dec 1965 to form his own group. He had been thinking of leaving for some time; not because Trane's solo space was stretching out in inverse proportion to his, but because he wanted to follow his own musical direction. However, the fact that Alice Coltrane was also a pianist may have contributed to his decision.
Tyner once said, *A musician such as John shouldn't have to depend on the piano all the time. Sometimes it's better to work without it because the piano, as an orchestral instrument, can get in the way of the soloist, especially a horn player. John and I would decide on which tunes I would play and on which ones I would lay out*
But now McCoy was taking a permanent stroll. And Alice Coltrane walked in as McCoy Tyner walked out" - J.C. Thomas (the author) |
If my memory serves me, the problem started when Coltrane started bringing in other players. Mccoy left 1st and then Elven Jones left shortly after when Coltrane started using Rashid Ali, as a second drummer. One report on Wiki, said McCoy could not hear himself, with all the sounds. Maybe someone else can add some more.
I read or heard an interview a long time ago where Mcoy and Elvin said they just had problems with the direction of the music. I tried to find it on the internet, so you could see their own words, but I did not find it. |
Well, after Tyner left, they did seem to fall into the Abyss. Maybe 'Black Hole' would be more descriptive. I wonder why Tyner left?
Cheers
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Acman, you and Rok are both correct; while it's not so apparent on records, at a live performance it was quite clear; "Trane" would take off to parts unknown, he seemed to feel, "If you wanted to hear what you heard on a record, you would have stayed home and played the record".
Tyner would stick with "Trane" as long as he could, but was quick to realize when it was futile, and that's when he would just make a solid foundation for the rest of the group to get behind.
According to Miles, Trane played for Trane on live sets. When this happened, only the musicians in the audience seemed to know what Trane was doing and where he was going.
Yes, Tyner was the glue that kept things together when Trane decided to go on one of his excursions, and Trane must have known that when the muse hit him, and he took off to another galaxy, that McCoy Tyner would keep things together down here on the ground; otherwise, as Rok stated, the music would have slipped into the abyss, and Trane knew that Tyner wasn't going to let that happen.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman,
In the whirlwind of sounds of the quartet and the quintet [ Sanders], I always could find " grounding" in the chords Tyner was playing. I think a player like Calderazzo would have been overwhelmed in that sound, but McCoy could always be heard. I always thought the other players heard the same thing. Maybe not.
It could be the way my mind dealt with the dense ideas happening all at once, |
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BTW, I love it when they listen to each other and react with facial expressions. The guitar player did this while Hart was soloing. Love it!!
Cheers |
I wanted to submit Hart's "For Cannonball and Woody". Which I played tonight. Found this and could not turn away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBSTUvLg6Y8BTW, 'For Cannonball and Woody' is great also. He studied Classical Saxophone for Four Years. Seems to have survived it unscathed. Great Player. Cheers |
****"Now, close your eyes and imagine that she is a horn player?". Personally, I don't think it would hold up.*****
I agree. Ella and Armstrong are the only ones I can recall off hand, that could play voice, and outplay the horn blowers while doing it. They scatted notes.
Maybe scat could help the guys who always complain about not being able to play what's in their heads?
Cheers |
****I think Tyner was the glue that kept the latter Quartet from the abyss.****
Interesting comment. How so? Thanks. |
When I was listening to the Branford Marsalis Quartet playing A love Supreme, I thought it interesting that Joey Calderazzo was the most different in comparison to his counterpart in the Coltrane Quartet, McCoy Tyner. Very different players, but Calderazzo pulls it off.
I think Tyner was the glue that kept the latter Quartet from the abyss. |
When I deleted #/ from your links, it worked. I noticed that did not appear in the links I sent. |
