Rok, well, I am duly busted on that Bolero factoid. Total brain fart and I hang my head in shame for my memory lapse. Bolero, nonetheless! a piece that have played more times than I care to remember. I could go on about the reasons related to its history why I made that error, but I will spare you the agony. If you care, I will gladly torture with those facts. Hey, nobody is perfect (close) and your facts in this department are so often wrong that that I confess it was easy to assume that you were wrong again :-). Obviously, I stand by all my other comments. Here's the Muti link again: https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=-7ZBzIXoJDMI am going to give you a little insight into what makes for good orchestral ensemble playing and is what of the things that separates the great orchestras (Wiener) from the merely good (Proms). Listen to the entrance of the 2nd flute at the end of the flute solo; at 1:12 on the Muti. Believe it or not that is one of the hardest things in all of Bolero. The 2nd flute has to come in cold and in perfect rhythmic unison with the snare drum and in the low register of the instrument; very very difficult! The Wiener 2nd flute comes in decisively and in perfect rhythm. On the Plisetskaia recording (and most others) the 2nd flute falters a bit and sounds insecure and uncorfortale for at least several beats. Check it out; I promise your head won't explode :-) |
O-10, I am packing my computer for a move. I should have internet Friday at the new place. Latter! |
Rok, you didn't comment on the dance links: 09-07-14 : I consider the last paragraph on that post an "unbelievable fact".
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Schubert, good question. Perhaps because I keep hoping. Hoping that someone who clearly has passion for music can change a skewed perspective.
Regards. |
The Frogman:
A little late, I should have asked before I posted. Do you mind if I bother you with the Facts? :)
Cheers |
*****BTW, Did you listen to the Muti Bolero? How about some commentary about that performance?*****
The link does not work. Has something to do with /#/ in the link.
But I assume it's Bolero played by a top tier orchestra under the baton of a top tier conductor. It so, I know what to expect. Just about what I hear when I play:
Berlin & NYP / Boulez, Berlin / Karajan, Orchestre de Paris / Barenboim, LSO / Monteux, and Boston / Munch. I would expect it to be just about the same.
Cheers |
****It was the notorious premier of "Rite" that caused the well documented "riot", not Bolero.*****
Well I can certainly understand a riot over Stravinsky's music. Maybe the Bolero thingy was a joyful ruckus. The verbal exchange stands.
Nice try.
Cheers
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09-07-14 from O-10: He is talking about drums in the US. You said he was not.
cheers |
****Really? Given the above, who do you think is really missing the point. The person who makes clear and factual commentary about the piece, or the person who doesn't even know that the piece was not a ballet,***** From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bol%C3%A9roBoléro is a one-movement orchestral piece by Maurice Ravel (1875–1937). Originally composed as a BALLET commissioned by Russian actress and dancer Ida Rubinstein, the piece, which premiered in 1928, is Ravel's most famous musical composition. The people rest. Cheers |
Schubert, the title of this thread on the music forum is "Jazz For Aficionados". I'm still looking for your posts where you submitted music, could you direct me?
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***I don't know what to say. However, I will say that I am still waiting for a cogent explanation about how the masses are who decide what is good when it is the masses who deem the likes of Kenny G, Madonna, etc. as worthy of their support.*****
There you go again. I did not say what the masses decided what was good in an absolute sense.. And your example proves my point. You said Bolero was his least important work. I did not say it wasn't, I said the masses decided it was his best work, by their criteria. Stay focused. I say 'exactly' what I mean to say. No more, no less. |
Frogman, why do you waste your time and effort to even bother with such a complete fool ? |
Re the Africa thing and your last post. Please reread what has been said about this. You have blinders on because the idea that your long-held views could be off base is apparently difficult to digest. No one (O-10) said anything about drums in the US; rather, the Caribbean. You obviously did not read my explanation on "influence" vs creation, nor the comment about the instruments being simply a means to an end. |
You crack me up, Rok. There is so much incongruity and contradiction in many of your views that I sometimes wonder if it's all a joke. Here we have a person who is staunchly "conservative" with his opinions on jazz, but is eager to credit "the masses" for knowing what excels and what does not.
****Once again you miss the point. I thought it was composed as a Ballet?****
Really? Given the above, who do you think is really missing the point. The person who makes clear and factual commentary about the piece, or the person who doesn't even know that the piece was not a ballet, nor can notice all of the mentioned problems with a performance of it. You cut yourself way too much slack.
****Ravel: Of course he wrote other pieces of music. They appear as FILLER, on every copy of BOLERO I own. And if you don't understand how ONE piece can make a career, well you have not been paying attention to the music business.****
I don't know what to say. However, I will say that I am still waiting for a cogent explanation about how the masses are who decide what is good when it is the masses who deem the likes of Kenny G, Madonna, etc. as worthy of their support.
****Public ignores all his 'serious' stuff****
You really do to get out more often.
****Paris: I read that report in one of the British Magazines that did a spread on either Bolero or Ravel. I am almost sure of that. Can't remember which one. I have tooo many to try and find it. I stand by the qoute. I remember it well.****
I believe you have the premiers of Bolero and Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" mixed up. It was the notorious premier of "Rite" that caused the well documented "riot", not Bolero. Oh, that's right...it's another case of "don't bother me with the facts, I will just create my own private reality".
****Pictures!! One of my favorites. Orchestrating other folks compositions, is not the same as writing your own. I have made my point, so I will concede he did do other things. Like a lot of one hit wonders.****
It really must be a joke. "one hit wonder"? Incredible!
BTW, Did you listen to the Muti Bolero? How about some commentary
about that performance? |
My LAST word on Jazz and influences and Africa.
If we go to certain areas of this country which include, Eastern TN, Western NC, West VA, and Northern GA & AL, we will see and hear people playing their local music. You may ask, where did this music come from? I would answer by putting us all on a plane, and flying to Ireland and Scotland. There, we will see, and hear where it came from. Notes be damned. Nothing to figure out. Just look and listen.
Africa and Jazz: I want you to tell me, where would we fly to in Africa, to see and hear / see the orgins, linkage or seeds of Jazz.
Since notes are physics, no one music type or genre can 'claim' them. I want to go to Africa and hear Jelly Roll and Pops. Where do we go?
Some of you seem to think slaves came ovcer here on work visas. green cards. With carry-on baggage. To you I say, take a look at a diagram of a slave ship. The drum thing in the Us is all myth. It was used to 'explain' why Africans play drums and Blacks in the US don't. Answer, the drum is a poor man's instrument. We had access to trumpets and other western instruments.
In the Book, The Diary of Mary Chesnut, she recounts the scene the day they fired on Fort Sumter in Charleston, SC. She said slaves were running all over the place, with GUNS. Ready to fight them Yankees. If they were allowed guns, surely drums were not seen as a threat. Read the story of Nat Turner. He didn't need no stinking drums! :)
And, where did these drums come from? And what is the distance a drum can be heard? The whole things seems silly to me. Reading more US / World history and alot less music theory, will answer all questions.
Cheers |
Frogman, we've been into the evolution of jazz in relation to Africa, from slavery to the present; I wonder how it would go if we went in reverse; I mean what music in Africa that has been influenced by jazz from here.
Acman could lead this parade, I believe he has been into African oriented jazz from Africa.
Enjoy the music.
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****That comment could not be further from the truth. "Bolero", while popular is considered one of Ravel's least important works.*******
The masses beg to disagree. You use that word 'considered' a lot. Considered by whom? Why do their considerations trump the considerations of the public. Unless of course, Ravel wrote his music for the professors at music school.
***Are you familiar with his orchestration of "Pictures At An Exibition",****
Pictures!! One of my favorites. Orchestrating other folks compositions, is not the same as writing your own. I have made my point, so I will concede he did do other things. Like a lot of one hit wonders.
Cheers |
The Frogman:
Bolero:
Once again you miss the point. I thought it was composed as a Ballet? That being true, what's wrong with there being dancing? And if you didn't like the choreography, well, what can one say?
Ravel: Of course he wrote other pieces of music. They appear as FILLER, on every copy of BOLERO I own. And if you don't understand how ONE piece can make a career, well you have not been paying attention to the music business.
Don't put words in my posts. I did not say Tchaikovsky would be unknown without '1812'. I said he had a similar attitude towards 1812, as Ravel had towards Bolero. Even Wiki says Ravel 'resented' the success of Bolero.
It's a common theme in music. Artist writes what he considers junk or throwaway music. But saves his best efforts for his 'serious' works. The public loves the junk music. Makes the artist rich and famous. Public ignores all his 'serious' stuff. Artist becomes bitter. Happens quite often. The message: The masses can make or break.
Paris: I read that report in one of the British Magazines that did a spread on either Bolero or Ravel. I am almost sure of that. Can't remember which one. I have tooo many to try and find it. I stand by the qoute. I remember it well.
If it is not true, and wiki and a few more sites report similar accounts, then it proves what I said about believing everything you read from people who are supposed to know.
Cheers |
To say Ravel would be unknown save for "Bolero",disqualifies
whoever said it comments from ANY serious consideration whatsoever on the subject of classical music. |
Frogman, I was just joking about the drum, but seriously, how long did it take for African slaves to cease their "Africanity" (new word) and simply become their own people. Even "genetically", some African Americans are more European than African. Remember, one drop of African blood constitutes being an African American; some African Americans have blue eyes and straight hair, they can pass for white. There is nothing that can be traced back to present day African Americans, and that is what makes "Bird" so unique, when you listen to "Bird" as intently as I do, a whole new music was born, I call it "Bird Bop".
Now when you use the word INFLUENCE, almost nothing can be invalidated; however, I can separate Bird from Trane, when Trane is blowing; there was more of Bird in early Trane, but before he died, there was pure "Trane", without any Bird.
Enjoy the music.
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****Rok, let me tell you a tru story about slaves here and their drums. At first the boss man didn't mind, and the drums had catchy rhythms, but when somebody told him, "Hey boss man, did you know they could talk with them drums"? That changed things; from that time on, the drum was outlawed. The very next night, "I thought I told yall to stop beatn them damn drums"! How can you have African music without a drum?**** O-10, I am sure that you have heard the term Santeria. Santeria is the religion that African slaves in Caribbean countries "synthesized" by giving their African gods Roman Catholic names in order to bypass the outlawing of their religion by their masters. "How can you have African music without a drum"......How can you have your religion without your Gods? While it would be ideal to understand the African influence on jazz from the standpoint of musical analysis (which makes it clear and obvious) looking at this parallel might make it easier to understand the answer to your question; "the math". In answer to your specific question "How can you have African music without a drum"? Easily, the drum is the vehicle, the means to an end; it plays rhythms......so does any other instrument including the human voice. THAT is how the African influence on jazz can be heard: the "blue" notes found in their native music and most importantly the "swing" feeling, the swagger and looseness; these are such a big part of the feeling of jazz as opposed to the more rigid or "square" feeling which is typical of the music of the European tradition. Combine that swagger, "blue" notes with European melody and harmony and you get........jazz. This does not take anything away from the fact that jazz is a uniquely American art form; it IS America's most important art from. However, just as we like to say that America is a "melting pot" of cultures, why should it be any different re it's music. I think that the issue of musical INFLUENCE is something that deserves much more understanding, not just as concerns African music and Jazz, but as concerns jazz in general; and, would be extremely informative as we look at various individual jazz artists. It lets the entire lineage make more sense. We recently revisited the subject of Coltrane (it never goes away; nor should it). I can't think of a better example of "influence" than this. Coltrane on alto saxophone sounding amazingly like Bird himself. When one listens to late Coltrane the Bird influence is much much harder to discern; he had taken that influence, fused it with his own vision and had taken off. However, it takes more than the ability to simply recognize an alto compared to a tenor in order to hear the Bird influence when listening to later Trane. https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=MGnY-axUH0U |
Rok, I don't know where you get your facts. The premier of Bolero was a huge success. If by "riot" you mean the cheering of the crowd then you're right; if you mean that the "riot" was a sign of disapproval you are incorrect. I also don't understand on what you base comments such as: ****If it weren't for Bolero the guy would probably be unknown today**** That comment could not be further from the truth. "Bolero", while popular is considered one of Ravel's least important works. Are you familiar with his orchestration of "Pictures At An Exibition", "Daphnis et Chloe", "Concerto In G" and many others which are considered some of the greatest orchestral music ever written? Look, you probably feel that I am picking on you. That is not my intention, but you are making some comments which are only unsubstantiated but more than a little silly. Tchaikovsky would be unknown if it weren't for the 1812 Overture?!? You must be joking. Re the latest Bolero clip: Sorry, but no cigar. Why the insistence on choreographed versions of the piece? First of all, Bolero was not composed as accompaniment to choreography. When a piece of music is choreographed there will almost always be compromises made in the performance of the music; usually in the areas of tempo and dynamics in oder to suit the choreographer's vision. In this case the piece starts with way too much energy; especially the snare which should be much more subdued. Starting the piece with so much energy means that the dynamic contrast between the beginning and the end (which is what the piece is all about) will be compressed. The solos with the exception of the opening flute solo are not so great with some funky intonation and hesitation in spots. Here's a great Bolero (btw, notice how Muti actually stops conducting in some spots; a great conductor can do that): https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=-7ZBzIXoJDM |
When Ravel's Bolero opened in Paris, it almost caused a riot. I guess folks took their music more seriously back then. One woman shouted "this music was written by a madman". Ravel who was present, said to his friend, "she's right!!, There is no music in this music". So much, for the people who should know. If it weren't for Bolero the guy would probably be unknown today. Similar situation with "1812". They are so arrogant. But, we unwashed masses, always set things right. Maybe this is Mo' Better Magical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsSALaDJuN4Cheers |
I can walk and chew gum at the same time, therefore, I can jump and not jump. If that makes no sense, don't worry about it. Frogman, when I see this, all the answers come to me. Billionaires who have all the wealth and power, enough power to make people in places all over this globe, jump when they say jump, can not experience the exuberance of these dancers. Although money and power gives them the ability to buy anything or anybody they want, they're bored because they can not feel anything, now their only pleasure comes from making as many people as possible, MISERABLE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZvmx--91G0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvbXLDcGe0k Enjoy the music. |
Bolero:
It was all said in jest. No one said Bolero was the most interesting piece of music. No one said these performances were the best ever. Is that the only piece of music you listen to, the most interesting?
If you didn't like them, fine. I cannot imagine anyone not enjoying them. Esp the one at the Proms. The audience went wild, the conductor was really into it. The dancers were, wow! But, to each his own.
The "complaining" comment was just messin' with you guys. But, if your response was all you have to say about the performances, you may have lost sight of the reason music exists.
And a better performance would be, " Mo' better magical!"
Cheers |
Frogman, while there aren't many contributors to this thread, the quality of their contributions is higher than any other thread I've been on. I would like to know how many hits a day there are on this thread. Some people are like parasites, they take what they can get out of a forum, but never contribute anything. If that's the case we're making musical contributions for the many, and proof of that would lie in the number of hits compared to the number of contributions.
We're all quite satisfied with your contributions and special expertise, as it has been stated. While I certainly have 0 intentions of going to music school, I'm thankful for what I learn from your contributions.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10, so "jumping around" is ok now? :-) |
****You are a smart guy, examine the facts, and do the math. And don't forget the left-wing elites in the arts, have an agenda.****
Well, this comment can be interpreted one of two ways; either as faint praise or as insulting. Don't misunderstand, I don't take offense and I am also confident that you mean well. But, the comment is too rich with stuff that goes to the crux of the matter to ignore. I'll explain:
It could be interpreted as insulting because you assume that I have not done the math. Moreover, you suggest that I would let whatever agenda the "left-wing elites" might have for presenting the argument override MY ability to analyze the issue, primarily by way of what my ears tell me, and arrive at MY own conclusions; conclusions shared by the overwhelming majority of those who know what they are talking about. And btw, the "left-wing elite" argument is, with all due respect, a pretty lame and sophomoric one. What you fail to recognize is that the argument about the African influence on jazz was well-accepted analysis way before our society developed any interest in crediting people of color for anything. But enough of that. I have no issue with your disagreement on a personal level and my motivation is simply to try and help you see the facts; and, more importantly help you develop a way of looking at these issues that is relevant to the act of listening to music. I say relevant because listening and enjoying is one thing, but analyzing the music or it's history is another and I am afraid that your version of "the math" is way off base. Again, you are willing to concede the probability of the African connection in Cuba, not because you can HEAR the influence, but because your "math" makes sense. As I said before, don't worry about the math and let your ears tell you the truth. Remember the "cables" debate? You're simply not hearing it. A challenge:
Did you read the link to the article about Gunther Schuller's explanation of the African connection in jazz? Now, rather than simply dismiss the plausibility of his premise, explain why what he poses is NOT plausible; why what he poses is incorrect. But not because "the math" doesn't add up in your view; rather, explain why the musical analysis that he presents is incorrect. I would be very curious.
Re "Bolero":
They were probably "ignored" for a couple of reasons. Probably because there are too many submissions at any one time to cover them all, and only a couple of contributors to this thread have more than a passing interest in that music. Now, MY honest reasons for not commenting on them (no intention to ignore): First, how many times will we comment on Bolero? Its been done several times before and as great a piece as it is (in its way) it's not exactly the most interesting piece of music in the rep; by a long shot. More importantly, your definition of "magical" is not the same as mine. Perhaps the visual element of the dance makes it magical for you, but for me those two performances of Bolero are not particularly good and I see no point in criticizing your submission when there are so many others to comment on. Bolero is an interesting piece because it's repetitiveness and "simplicity" lays bare the soloists and the ensemble, making playing that is less than first rate very obvious. If those performances were magical from the standpont of the orchestra's performance, what would one call another performance that has better flow, better ensemble playing, more expressive and (at the same time) more rhythmically accurate solos, and better sense of drama? MORE magical?
Here's to encouraging you to dig a little deeper.
Cheers.
BTW, did you try the clave rhythm exercise? Or should I complain that it was completely ignored :-) |
Rok, let me tell you a tru story about slaves here and their drums. At first the boss man didn't mind, and the drums had catchy rhythms, but when somebody told him, "Hey boss man, did you know they could talk with them drums"? That changed things; from that time on, the drum was outlawed. The very next night, "I thought I told yall to stop beatn them damn drums"! How can you have African music without a drum?
Enjoy the music.
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Right on Rok! I'm with you all the way; go with the flow, do what you feel, may the spirit guide you, and the force be with you.
About my learning experiences; I've been to a university or two, at least I walked across the campuses (never got a pedigree) but I never learned as much in such a short time as I have from you guys quite recently.
We'll go just like we've been going "quite recently", do what you feel, and I'll improvise.
Enjoy the music.
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****Does this mean we are done with Cuban music?****
I just follow the rest of you. But our OP be Bossman. He loves Cuba. We are not done by a long shot. We have not gotten into Jazz and doo-wop yet. Can't wait to talk about my 'Los Zafiros' CDs.
I read one bio of a Cuban guy that said he played, Jazz, Cuban Jazz, Latin Jazz and Afro-Cuban Jazz. That's what I call a target rich enviroment. We will be here until Christmas!! At least they didn't mention 'Free' Cuban Jazz.
Cheers |
*****I guess this is the "jumping around" that O-10 referred to. Does this mean we are done with Cuban music?*****
I "jump around" because, I am more MUSIC aficionado than JAZZ aficionado. I love it all. I submitted two youtubes of Bolero that were completely ignored. Both, pure magic!!
Don't get me started on they way the Wolfman was dissed. You guys should remember what the Duke said.
Cheers |
*****So, was there anything of interest in my posts, Rok? Learn anything? Disagree with anything?*****
It was all interesting and I really appreciate the time, effort, and thinking, it must have taken to write them.
Since eventually a person has to believe some of what is written, I have learned, that as late as 1899, many / most?, blacks in Cuba could not speak Spanish. So, what language did they speak? I have learned that the importation of Africans into Cuba continued until the 1860s and slavery was not abolished until 1886. Importation ended in the US in 1808.
Cuba is very small compared to the US. The few sugar cane plantations were owned by a few wealthy Europeans, mostly Spainards. I stress the word 'few'. The Africans worked in the cane fields, slept for a few hours, and then started it all again. In rural areas. Isolated. Esp the men. People in Cuba were legally divided into White, Black and mixed race.
This meant greater isolation for people of pure African decent. Isolation means a culture can be sustained or created, with little chance of cross contaimination. Culture includes music.
All this indicates that it is very likely that African influences in Cuban music were significant, almost to the point of Cuban music being African music, with Spainish influences.?
This is true for all Spainish islands of the Caribbean and Brazil. More slaves were imported into these countris and for longer, than into the US.
So if you can hear all this African stuff in Cuban music, I cannot prove otherwise. It seems reasonable.
That this is also true in Black American music, I strongly disagree. Every relevant condition was different here. The last person from Africa entered this country in 1808. The ones already here? They all spoke English, however badly, and apparently they were all Baptists. :) And they were EVERYWHERE!
You are a smart guy, examine the facts, and do the math. And don't forget the left-wing elites in the arts, have an agenda.
Don't want to make this a slave thread, but it is central to the subject.
One other thing. If a native in some isolated island blows through his hand carved flute, he will make a sound. My book tells me that a 'note', is a sound frequency of a certain duration. That note the native blew, could most likely be found within any of Beethoven's Symphonies. That sort of thing is Physics, not culture or influence.
So now, should we consider all Cuban Music to be Spanish influenced African music?? :) I'm just saying. :)
Cheers |
****if spirituals, blues and jazz have an African connection, we should have those equivalents in Haiti, Cuba, and Salvador Brazil****
O-10, do you mean music styles in those other countries that also have an African connection? |
I guess this is the "jumping around" that O-10 referred to. Does this mean we are done with Cuban music?
So, was there anything of interest in my posts, Rok? Learn anything? Disagree with anything? This is a crucial moment in these discussions, IMO. One can either jump ship or take things to another level and really make things insteresting and learn something; or, do the usual retreat to the comfort zone. |
In the words of John Lee Hooker "Let that boy Boogie Woogie". |
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*****O-10: we better be careful. I think The Frogman is about to go professorial on us.******
What did I say, O-10?? What did I say!?!?!
Speaking of understatement.
Cheers |
Frogman, after reading your post, I feel like I'm ready to start my own band playing Cuban music; one would think you were a Cuban musician. I like the way Cuban music is coming to the forefront and I hope this continues.
Enjoy the music.
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Acman, I appreciated your contribution; not only was it informative, but it was an enjoyable read as well. I'll find some more music to compliment it.
Enjoy the music.
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#7 "Pio Mentiroso". A "guaracha". Guaracha is a style characterized by a typically faster tempo than most other Cuban music styles. It gained popularity in Cuban theater productions and is notable for the "dialogue" between the vocal soloist and the chorus. The themes of the songs are usually of a light and happy nature and it should be noted that in this "dialogue" the soloist typically improvises his lyrics.
Counter to the guaracha's typically "happy" feeling, it is particularly interesting to note the role that Cuban musical theater and the guaracha had in the emancipation of slaves in Cuba. Both the songs and it's companion dance often made political commentary criticizing the establishment's attitude towards slavery. |
#6 "Los Sitio Asere". Classic Cuban "son"; this one, while technically not a Guaguanco, speaks of it in it's lyrics. Son, the precursor of salsa, became popular in the late twenties and combines the more formal elements of Spanish (European) song ("cancion") structures with African percussion instruments and rhythms. Notable is the extensive use of the guitar. The use of brass instruments in this heavily orchestrated example of son came later, whereas early son did not use brass instruments to this extent; except perhaps a single solo trumpet as is heard on the "Buena Vista" recordings.
Classic son uses a more traditional song writing style as opposed to the simpler call and response structure heard in the Guaguanco "La Fiesta De La Rumba". One of the most fascinating things about this style of music and it's rhythm is just how little is happening on the downbeats of the music (the 1,2,3,4). The percussion plays primarily on syncopated beats with the downbeats being largely implied. |
#5 "La Fiesta De La Rumba" Slow tempo "Guanguanco". Guaguanco is the most popular style of Cuban rumba. It developed among the different African ethnic groups, primarily from Central and West Africa, who were brought to Cuba as slaves. This recording starts with a 3-2 rumba clave rhythmic pattern played on the claves. This merits an explanation: clave is the name of an important percussion instrument used in Cuban music; two thick rosewood sticks struck together. Clave is also the name of the most important rhythmic pattern in Cuban music; usually (but not always) played on claves (the instrument). The importance of clave rhythm in Cuban music cannot be overemphasized. It is a type of repetitive rhythmic grid or framework around which all the other percussion instruments synchronize their individual parts. There are different Clave rhythms, but this one, the 3-2 rumba Clave is one of the most common. But, what is rumba Clave? Do this simple exercise and this common rhythm will be instantly identifiable to anyone familiar with Latin music. First do the exercise very very slowly by enunciating the beats and subdivisions, and then try doing the same thing by clapping your hands where there is an emphasis while enunciating the beats and subdivisions: Think four beats per measure of music: (1) (2) (3) (4). Now, imagine that each one of those beats is divided into four subdivisions: (1)one, two, three, four (2)one, two, three, four (3)one, two, three, four (4)one, two, three, four Now, do the same thing, but this time each of the four subdivisions of each beat may or may not be emphasized: (1) ONE, two, three, FOUR (2) one, two, three, FOUR (3) one, two, THREE, four (4) ONE, two, three, four Remember, the digit is the one of the four beats in the measure and the spelled number is each of the subdivisions in each beat. Listen to the clave (the instrument) in the song "La Fiesta De La Rumba" and focus on the rhythm that it plays; it is the very first thing that one hears on the clip. This (Clave rhythm) is the heart of Cuban music, around which everything else revolves. I made a comment in an earlier post that, in Cuban music, the dance is almost inextricable from the music. There could not be a better example of this than in Guaguanco. This is Guaguanco (the dance) along with the music. As with almost all ethnic musics (African) the dance tells a story. In this case it is suggestive and playful story of sexual conquest; or, more specifically it's attempt (the dude never gets the prize): https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=m-9JLuvoSPI |
Frogman, if spirituals, blues and jazz have an African connection, we should have those equivalents in Haiti, Cuba, and Salvador Brazil; could you give examples of them?
Enjoy the music.
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