Schubert, the GREAT Gil Shaham indeed! I too like the Korngold; in fact, I have grown to like much of his work. I recently had the opportunity to perform his "Much To Do Anout Nothing" Suite, a very interesting work with a lot of charm; and which, like many of his works, straddles a fine line between accessibility (and even frivolity) with musical substance and a lot compositional craft. Thanks for the heads up re Minnesota. I believe we will be seeing a lot more of that kind of thing; really good news!
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
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Learsfool is exactly right, Faddis is best known as a lead teumpet player with great "high-chops". Personally, I have not been a fan of his jazz playing. It is true that he is a disciple of Dizzy,, but his jazz playing has often struck me as a lot of quantity without a lot of substance. I have never liked screech players who, when playing jazz, rely a lot on playing in the screech range to create the excitement without enough of the more subtle stuff to balance things out. Just my reaction to it. |
Rok, Faddis is actually much better known for his "screech" playing, his lead trumpet playing in big bands. That Peterson record he did is a rare opportunity to hear him in that sort of setting. Another recording he sounds fantastic on is Leonard Bernstein's recording of West Side Story that he did in the 80s with the opera singers singing the leads. It is worth listening to just to hear Faddis play the dance band stuff. |
Frogman, this might interest you. I was at the MN Orch. concert tonight, finally got to hear the great Gil Shaham and his Strad in the Korngold Vn. Cnt., a work I like but never heard live. The orchestra President came out on stage and announced the Minnesota will be the first American orchestra to play in Cuba, two concerts in Havana mid-May at the time of the Cuban Grammy equivalent . |
Today's Listen: Oscar Peterson & Jon Faddis One of a series of recordings of Peterson with Trumpet players. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhLXJWgB5CI Love the playing. Not sure I love Faddis' tone. It's said he plays like Dizzy. I think that's Dizzy's tone also. Cheers |
My new closing statement: http://www.seattleweekly.com/2011-09-14/music/branford-marsalis-the-problem-with-jazz/ Since this Marsalis, is the Darling of this thread, I am sure we will have complete agreement! Cheers |
Acman3: You are right, it's gone. I may have posted it by mistake on another thread, realized the mistake, and then deleted it. Failed to repost here. It was during the great Bullshit debate. I remember saying "Great CD, No Bullshit". This is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOYYaBBJr_E I have all three of the 'Road Shows' in my 'cart' on amazon. Something else all ways comes up to push them back on the 'save for later' list. Cheers |
*****Rok, that article was silly. For a closing argument you will have to do better.****** I beg to disagree. ****Just let your music make your case. A little Sonny, A little Hawk,.. More will agree with you that way, and we can enjoy being told were wrong.;)****** A little Sonny never hurt anyone. Totally agree. Cheers |
***** what is the point of buying Salvant or Marsalis? ***** Salvant came into my universe out of nowhere. Unbelievable hype. A Jazz lover would buy her to check her out. See if the talent matched the hype. I did. She has talent. Her first CD was very good. Now we wait and see what follows. It takes more than talent to be a success in music. If she falls in with the right people, good song selection, gets the right advice, and follows it, and with a little luck, she may be good for a long time. We will see. She has the voice. Why would anyone buy Wynton? I won't dignify that with a reply. Cheers |
The reason for buying music by living current performers is that they have to make a living if you wish to see them LIVE. Without the memory of live performance stored in you brain an LP or CD of a symphony would just be noise. I would think the pleasure that is jazz would be greatly diminished as well. Music is organic and the musicians and audience are part of the same organism . Musicians are serious and IMO audiences should be too ,within their limits anyway. |
Thanks so very much Frogman. I would have never picked up the tempi issues myself. I did notice they listened to each other, which I found remarkable for kids. I thought the baritone was the star, amazing foundation for what was written as a harpsichord cnt. Re the Bach anything, I heard a nice performance in Dublin by a tin-whistle trio. |
When there is controversy on this thread, I consider it my duty to express my honest emotions and thoughts in regard to the matter. I'll try to go back to the beginning and take on case by case. Rok, no one said Wynton could not play; he could be considered the best trumpeteer on the planet, as long as it's someone else's music and not his own. I could live without Ben Paterson, Miguel Zenon on the other hand was very impressive. Salvant and Marsalis don't even belong in the same sentence; while Salvant uses old material, her treatment of it makes the old material new beyond belief. In conclusion, it's not "new jazz", or "new musicians"; after considering Alex's post on the Dimitris Kalantzis Quartet, from Greece... it's new jazz and musicians from the good old U. S. of A.; they're too "stereotypical". If someone practiced, worked hard and got a degree in music, that would qualify them to earn a good living and play excellently, but not to necessarily be a "jazz musician". Enjoy the music. |
Still waiting: ****The problem is, as I have said 3,025 times, Right next to 'Paterson' on the CD rack, is Peterson, Powell, Previn and even Don Pullen :) etc......... Why buy Paterson?**** ####Using your criteria then, what is the point of buying Salvant or Marsalis? What has either done as musicians that has not been done better by many previous masters?#### |
Acman3, thanks for the Zenon clips. Great new player who has been making a lot of noise (sorry, couldn't resist :-) in the NYC scene for the last few years. Very interesting player in how his style is such an obvious mix of modern harmonic concepts, traditional tone approach (he studied classical for many years) and his ethnic roots. Love his playing! ANOTHER example! :-) |
Loved the Ben Paterson! I was listening to some great jazz today, but most don't have youtube video's. Someone, I am embarrassed to mention I just caught on to, was Miguel Zenon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AptpSs4Ntzk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y4KPYjfcl4 |
Nothing new under the sun here. The bullshit cliche about jazz and the classroom is just that, bullshit and a cliche. Sure there are some players who sound that way; so what? There are plenty of players who learned jazz in the street who sound like shit. Why do you insist on lumping those in with the good ones with your blanket statements? Rock, it's pretty obvious by now how you will react when backed into a corner. Your generalizations simply don't hold water. Look, no one is saying that you need to "know" anything to enjoy jazz. But, if you think that Paterson sounds like he learned jazz in a classroom (whatever that means) while continuing to extol the virtues of an emotionally dry player like Marsalis, all I can say is that something is wrong. Cheers. |
Just in case you missed this part. :) A big misconception about Jazz is that you need to know something about it to enjoy it. The truth is when someone hears music with this sizzle, crackling with suspense, and breathing like a living entity, it will stop you in your tracks. In fact, this applies to all forms of music. It’s the reason why some music grabs you and some doesn’t. Duke Ellington said there are two types of music: good and bad. It’s that simple. Jazz at its finest is like really great sex, or the best food in the world, you will want more and you damn sure wont be texting anyone in the middle of it. Cheers |
My closing statement: https://jazzdox.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/wrongjazz/ Read it. He nailed it. When you speak of Jazz and current players, you are talking about people that 'learned Jazz' in a classroom. They play it that way. Cheers |
Schubert, I listened to the Kenari Qt. on PR. Very impressive quartet by any standard; and especially for a student group. As has been mentioned it is really amazing the level achieved by young players today. They are truly an ensemble in that they listen to each other very well and do something that eludes many young players: the seamless continuation of a musical line, particularly in the fast tempi. Their intonation is excellent. Nitpicks: typical for a young group, they really shine with the fast tempi with nice forward momentum; somewhat less so in the slower tempi when they move a bit too quickly through some of the phrases and especially the ends of the phrases. The musically strongest players are the soprano and baritone and this is also reflected in a bit of imbalance with the soprano being a little too prominent at times; one wishes for the two inner voices to fill out the harmonies a bit more. This may be in part a result of the way the group was recorded. All in all a very impressive group. Thanks! |
Frog, you can download it from PT show and/or listen to it on the second hour bar of listen today , just click on Bach Concerto.Just click on the photo of the QT and they start another piece,these guys are really special. I know many musicians retire in Bloomington and IU is drawing top students from all over the world. |
****The problem is, as I have said 3,025 times, Right next to 'Paterson' on the CD rack, is Peterson, Powell, Previn and even Don Pullen :) etc......... Why buy Paterson?**** Huh? I must have been on a different thread all those 3,025 posts, but seems to me that what you have been saying all this time is that there is no (or little) good jazz by new young players. Jazz is alive and well, and young players need our support and encouragement to raise the bar and push the envelope while letting the music evolve. I see no point in the constant negativity about the state of jazz. Using your criteria then, what is the point of buying Salvant or Marsalis? What has either done as musicians that has not been done better by many previous masters? And in the case of Salvant, not nearly as close to the standard which IMO Paterson approaches. |
Schubert, it really is amazing how the bar had been raised by students in conservatory today. I have not heard that particular saxophone qt., but I am not surprised given what I know about the music program at IU. I will try and find a recording by them and report back. Your post is particularly relevant because I was going to comment on a post that you made in another thread about Bach being the most non-bs composer ever. I totally agree, and the proof for me is that I have never heard Bach played (well) on ANY instrument that it did not work; not something that can be said about most composers even great ones. Bach lends itself particularly well to the saxophone qt. as that ensemble has a sonority not unlike an organ. |
*****This young kid can swing his ass off like there's no tomorrow; great player!****** The problem is, as I have said 3,025 times, Right next to 'Paterson' on the CD rack, is Peterson, Powell, Previn and even Don Pullen :) etc......... Why buy Paterson? To compete against that group, You gotta be exceptional, and be exceptional more than just once. This is something ALL artist face in this age of recorded music. Esp Jazz and Classical composers. The Masters never go away. Never die. They are as near as your computer / Amazon. Cheers |
Frogman, on the NPR program "Performance Today" this day there was a stupendous live performance by a student Sax Qt. from the Jacobs School at Indiana University. They play all genres but today did the Bach Italian Concerto BWV 971. All the contrapuntal elements were there, the lines as well and the barry laid down a ground that I would have thought impossible on a Sax. They go by "Kenari Qt." and have a download on PT as well as a click to listen on right side, at least for today. It would be a real treat to hear what you think of them ! |
Alex I have Howard in my record collection on a guitar compilation. Here's a tune he did that I like; it's Herby Hancock's "dolphin Dance". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H906Iusn1sc I want to thank you once again for giving us the treat of hearing another great undersung musician. Here he is live; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h76NVQjwRR0 Enjoy the music. |
I keep my car radio on the local jazz station which is owned by the Minneapolis School Board. They put high school jazz ensembles on air that are unreal good players. Jazz is alive and well in the Twin Cities, you can catch local trios etc which are well worth hearing 7 days a week and the famous Dakota Club is usually full. ALL kinds of music do well here, I think the fact that this is the epi-center of the world in Choral music has a LOT to do with that. |
Speaking of 'new' jazz, this is something that I like. Dimitris Kalantzis Quartet, from Greece... http://youtu.be/da8eYZ3tYjg http://youtu.be/_fVzQkW-G8M http://youtu.be/ssqHgSdyjDc |
Yet another example of why Jazz is here to stay; and, anyone who thinks there is no great jazz being played by new young players is simply not listening. This young kid can swing his ass off like there's no tomorrow; great player! (Oh, and don't worry too much about the bullshitters) No bullshit here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MIgAWwi4IVQ |
Howard Roberts, played guitar as performer since he was 15, blues in the begining, later has become a studio musician and educator. On couple occasions he recorded few jazz albums. Anybody interested in jazz guitar should not overlook his music. This album is from 1959, and aldo the cover looks 'sweet' the music is 'serious'. I have few of his albums, wish that he has recorded more jazz. http://youtu.be/I0El4NXHbWs http://youtu.be/Oe0KKlCe-Sc http://youtu.be/gaY3oDuJ5Gg |
******The narrower minded person has it easy to say everything, not to his liking, is BS. ******** Makes life a lot simpler. And in the final analysis, isn't this what everyone does eventually? If you want to know what you really like, ask yourself this question. What Jazz CD / LP do I listen to, the most? I would like for all to answer that. What album do you listen to most often? Me? The most reviled player on this thread. "Marsalis and Clapton Play The Blues." Great playing by anyone's standard!! Cheers |
O-10: I did notice your post. I just post that stuff from time to time, to have it handy when I am browsing the net. It is not Jazz, and I always indicate that it is not an official post. The Winans and Marvis made this the definitive version of "I'll Take you There". Takes a lot, to out do Pops and the girls. Bought that one at the PX at Fort Rucker, Alabama. Don't know why it sticks in my mind. "Disco Lady" takes me back to "The World Cup Club" in Uijeongbu, Korea. I can still see Miss Kim, Miss Park, and Miss Lee, et al, doing it on the dance floor. Those where the days.(1976) This is the city where the MASH unit of Movie and TV fame was located. The compound my unit was located on, served as the Morgue during the war. Rod Stewart is one of the few Rockers I can tolerate. Always liked his voice. You hvae to hear him thru JBL's at volume! I just like to watch the antics of En Vouge. Those babes act/sing, as if they are ready to throw down! Glad you enjoyed them. Cheers |
People have been arguing over this since the start of Jazz. This open letter was written by Mingus, after he said, in a blind listening test, that Dave Brubeck and Paul Desmond were not doing it right. http://www.mingusmingusmingus.com/mingus/an-open-letter-to-miles-davis- I believe the open minded listener, Frogman spoke of, is more, by nature open to BS. The narrower minded person has it easy to say everything, not to his liking, is BS. I think , most of the time its like Pornography, I know it when I see it. ;) Hello O, Glad to see you! |
I agree; perfectly expressed and no different than anything I said. I am simply adding that it can't be stopped; it's the way it always has been and always will be. Only solution is for the public to educate itself and be able to make its own decisions. Bitching and moaning about a particular sad state of affairs seldom accomplishes anything. The "danger" that I am referring to I have seen in this thread several times. A worthy player is dismissed as a noisemaker and lumped in with the bullshitters simply because the style is not appreciated or understood. Seems to me that anyone who is serious about this music should promote its growth and appreciate the fact that it will evolve; not stifle it. The space created by the clueless critic then becomes far less relevant. Some of the bullshitters may not entirely disappear from the scene, but the good guys will rise to the top. |
McBride: Lord, Lord. I know he must have a grand plan. This is what McBride said: "But what I find some times in jazz is that you’ll find somebody can get up there and frankly, because I know my training as a musician, I know they’re completely bullshitting. And there’s always some critic who says, “Oh, he’s not bullshitting. He’s just expressing himself in a different kind of way.” And I’ll go, “That’s bullshit!” and now they’re creating a space for this person to garner an audience of confused people who don’t really know the difference: “Some critic said this guy can play. I don’t think he sounds as good as Sonny Rollins but someone said he’s a genius so I better pay attention to him.” Meanwhile, guys who are obviously greater at what they do--it’s almost as if people think anyone can do that. Now this sort of abstract, strange playing that no one can understand, some people now think that’s what they need to get with. Ahh, man". THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF THE ENTIRE ARTICLE: " And there’s always some critic who says, “Oh, he’s not bullshitting. He’s just expressing himself in a different kind of way.” And I’ll go, “That’s bullshit!” and now they’re creating a space for this person to garner an audience of confused people who don’t really know the difference: “Some critic said this guy can play. I don’t think he sounds as good as Sonny Rollins but someone said he’s a genius so I better pay attention to him.” Check out the phrase 'creating space' for the noise makers to the detriment of Jazz and real players. Perfectly expressed!!!. Cheers |
Re bullshit and critics: This has been an issue since time immemorial. It is the way it is and the way it will always be; as soon as someone is given a pulpit, personal agendas and politics of one sort or another will step in. However, there are some good critics that can offer solid guidance; and, more importantly and as with most things, it's up to the public that wants to make educated choices to educate itself and not rely only on what a "critic" says is good. Once again, THAT is the reason to learn more about the building blocks of music. ****But what I find some times in jazz is that you’ll find somebody can get up there and frankly, because I know my training as a musician, I know they’re completely bullshitting.****- McBride It always comes back to that; assuming the listener wants to base his opinions on something other than gut or emotional reaction. Nothing inherently wrong with that approach, but it depends on how deeply the listener wants to dig" IMO, a "danger" even bigger than the influence that a clueless critic who promotes bullshit might have is the danger of worthy music that is honestly and creatively pushing the envelope might be dismissed as bs or just noise. So to answer your question, no, not all free or avantgard Jazz is bs. There are a lot of good examples of free music that sticks to the rule of thumb that first a player needs to be able to play "inside" before he can play "outside. THAT is what McBride was saying. |
O-10: I can find no evidence that your posts have been ignored. This thread has regular contributors, and we know who they are. There are also people that just 'make the rounds' commenting on every thread on Audiogon. I don't think they are 'into' talking about Jazz. But since it's an open forum, there is nothing that can, or should be, done about it. However, sometimes the crap they say is so breathtakingly stupid, something has to be said in rebuttal. Hence the tangents away from Jazz. Now, on the other hand, MY posts are routinely ignored!! Even ridiculed!! I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. Perhaps you, as the OP, can say a few words to correct this outrage. :) Cheers |