****Have you ever looked at an old black and white photograph that was so old that it was turning brown, and been drawn into it? I'm drawn into the sound of her piano;*****
Solo piano can do that. Esp if it's being played in an airly room with a wooden floor. Nawlins? As my family's historian, I have a zillion black and white photos. Sometimes I wish I was back there. :) I have two of my Great Grand parents that have turned brown. 19th Century stuff. But they are a lot clearer than this modern stuff. Just like Mary Lou's piano.
Cheers |
O-10:
Both links go to 'Willow'. It was beautiful. Check out some of the comments from musicians. Dare I say it? She was well versed in the N&B's. :)
I tried to listen to my CDs of Williams, but the sound quality was just too awful. They were recorded in 1974 & 1945. The clip you sent had great sound. They did a good job of cleaning it up.
The notes on the clip said she 'tutored' Monk!! Damn! I think if she had been a man, she would have been up there with the best, in the public's consciousness
Send 'necessarily so'. I suspect You didn't hear it in Kansas City. It just sounds so refreshing in this current sea of noise, you think you had to have heard it in a former life.
Thanks for the clips.
Cheers |
Rok, I have an affinity for Mary Lou's music that goes beyond anything I have ever experienced; it's a kind of nostalgia thing that goes back to a time before I was even born. Have you ever looked at an old black and white photograph that was so old that it was turning brown, and been drawn into it? I'm drawn into the sound of her piano; on "Willow Weep For" for example, this sounds like music I heard at a time before I could even remember. on "It Ain't Necessarily So", I've heard this a thousand times by a thousand people; why should Mary Lou's sound so different; it takes me back, way back; so far back that I wasn't even born. Could there be something to reincarnation? Maybe I heard her before I was born in a "speakeasy" in Kansas City when I was somebody else? Music is so mystifying; I mean how the very same music can have so many different, and unusual effects on different people.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4THBVc47ug>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e8AOox_prE[/urk]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4THBVc47ugEnjoy the music. |
Rok, you didn't buy "Dinah Jams" for Dinah Washington, you bought it for the musicians backing her, so do not miss one single solitary note.
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O-10:
The first clip, Mary Lou's Mass was good. The second clip was flimed with a fixed camera from a long distnace. Not nearly as effective.
However, I must admit that I am not a fan of Modern Dance, esp in the absence of the Librettro. As usual, I am old School. 'Swan Lake' and 'The Nutcracker' are just about the limits of my dance appreciation.
I did notice that Mary Lou made several references to God and religion in Nica's book. Of course a lot of the other players did also. Different era I guess.
I did not get a chance to listen to Mary Lou or anyone else today. My Polks have failed. :( I know, I know, it's impossible to believe. But you can't say Polk is not high-end now. Beautiful product, very expensive, great sound and with a MTBF of about 20 minutes.
I am now waiting on a replacement tweeter, and magnetic grill. back in the lo-fi days, the stuff lasted forever.
I did get a chance to listen to some of' Dinah Jams'. Sounds like a fun disc. I recognized Maynard right away on 'Summertime'. No one else can play that high and that loud.
Dinah is not really a Jazz singer, but she does have a very unique voice. One of her most memorable lines to me, was from a CD with Brook Benton, when she says, as only she can, "one more time Brook". :) Love it.
Will be back in the net tomorrow. Will bring the Lsi15's back out.
Cheers |
Rok, this is an even greater Gold Mine than the last one we discovered, and I know we're both still enjoying that one. "Mary Lou's" incredible music is coming up short in the sonics department, but her music is so incredible in regard to "Blues and Soul", that it doesn't have to be her playing her music; it's just that powerful. While I mentioned blues and soul, the gal can bop too. This is an example of her religious music that's so powerful, I vibrate when I look and listen to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk1Rkf9LVAkEnjoy the music. |
Rok, apparently there are two trains of thought on this thread; we have much more important things to to do. I've discovered a "gold mine" and we are going to mine it for what it's worth. Just as trains running in opposite direction pass on parallel tracks, we shall allow that train to proceed on to it's desired destination, without disturbing it.
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Learsfool, there is an unbridgeable chasm between those who
love something for how it makes them feel and somebody who loves the thing itself.
If rationality could bridge the chasm they would never have been one in the first place. |
Rok, we're going to have to find some kind of filter for "Mary LOU", because of the recording quality of so much of her music. This is going to require work; for example "Mary Lou's Mass" is a work of art, but the sonics wont cut it for me; but since it is a work of art, it's also recorded as a "Dance Thing", that would work if I could find a DVD where that's choreographed.
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Rok, Now that you have dealt with a most distasteful situation, that's completely behind us, and we can go on to more productive uses of our time.
Although "all" of the artists on Dinah Jams are major, to me, "Richie Powell", one who many people are unfamiliar with because he was killed in that automobile accident with Clifford Brown, is very important. I like him even better than his famous older brother "Bud Powell"; that's why I cherish every note I can find by him.
Presently I'm still pursuing Mary Lou Williams.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
Got my CDs today, includes 'Dinah Jams'. Do you realize who's in the group backing her? Clifford Brown, Clark Terry, Maynard Ferguson, Harold Land, Junior Mance and Max Roach. Plus a few I am not that familiar with.
Fairly decent Trumpet section!! Will report after I listen. Also got two by Shorter.
I have two CDs by Mary Williams. 'Zoning' and 'Zodiac Suite'. From her younger days. I will check to see if she did 'Scorpio' justice.
Cheers |
Learsfool:
I have cooled off, so I won't answer your BS post point for point. I never feel good after doing things like that. Let's just say:
It appears as if you are also a Strawman Specialist. Most of your rant is pure non-sense. And very disrespectful to the OP.
O-10 has never been anything less than courteous in his dealings with you. In fact, I always thought he gave you and the Frogman too much credit. Deferred to you too much. He also bent over backwards to keep you two involved in the thread.
You may know music, but you have no manners.
****You will no doubt respond by saying that this is your thread, which it is.*****
When has the OP ever used "it's my thread" in the sense that you just used it? Never! But now, it's 'no doubt' he will.
****But you must understand that no one with any knowledge of the language of music whatsoever is going to listen to you seriously anymore,*****
Is this a joke. Are you speaking of folks on Audiogon? People on this site have no real knowledge of anything, music included!!! Do you read the posts and the topics on this forum?? Ignorance rules!!! Which is one of the reasons for the problems on Aficionados. There was the constant effort to make it an Audiophile thread.
So now you and The Frogman are gone. Do we go into mourning? Or (my choice), Just act as if you were never here. Hell, Some people might just say, Good Riddance? I won't, but some might.
Cheers
BTW, when you first heard the Beedthoven Sonata in question, did you think, Boogie Woogie?? I'm sure you did. |
Rok, while you were defending our integrity, I was reading about "Mary Lou Williams"; she was a very impressive lady. I'll get back to you after I've finished. You can find her picture in Nica's book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X4r5ZioIBwEnjoy the music. |
To all concerned:
Jazz for Aficionados: The beginning:
The OP wrote in his initial post:
*****I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections******
(( He then reviewed the Art Blakey Album, "Moanin' ))
then he closed with this:
****While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.******
Now, after reading that, I don't see a mandate, or a request, or a demand, or a desire, or an expectation, for The Frogman, or anyone else, to Teach anyone, anything, about Jazz.
Now that the intent of this thread has been stated, I will
address, later this afternoon, the arrogant attitude, and abusive language that are common themes of most posts by you and the Frogman. I have finally had enough of it. Being a Southerner, it takes a lot to get me riled. But you have.
Cheers |
O-10 (and Rok) - I have been away from this board for some time again, and have returned this morning to read what has passed here the last couple of weeks with great sadness. I feel that I must respond to some of the comments made here. I pick three examples:
"not only has Frogman been misinterpreting every thing I say, but he's been rewriting my posts, and coming up with something completely different from what I said originally."
"I consider Frogman a highly educated and intelligent person, who has made great contributions to this thread; however, quite recently I seem to be speaking French and he only understands English, or vice versa."
""I consider this ignorance BLISS", and I hope this closes that door permanently".
With all due respect, O-10 - you are the one who not only does not, but willfully refuses to understand. This is not a case of you speaking one language and Frogman speaking another. It is a case of he speaks the language (of music), and you do not. No one is re-writing your posts - your ignorance is proudly proclaimed, and there for all to see who do indeed speak the language of music.
You will no doubt respond by saying that this is your thread, which it is. But you must understand that no one with any knowledge of the language of music whatsoever is going to listen to you seriously anymore, now that it has been established that you are unwilling to learn. You truly do not know the depth of your own ignorance, even while proclaiming and glorying in it.
Some of you also clearly do not understand the tragedy that this is for us professional musicians, to see someone that clearly thinks they love music so much, yet is also so willfully blind and ignorant about it. You clearly have no idea how disrespectful this is, and I do not mean to us musicians, but to the music itself. Many would go so far to say that you do not really love music at all, let alone as much as you think you do - how could you if you have so little respect and understanding for the very basics of it. They might say that while may you take great pleasure in it, you not only do not, but cannot love it.
It is of course your choice to stay on your island of ignorant bliss if you wish, but wonder no longer why no one with any true love and understanding of music will listen to you any longer, when you are unwilling to listen to such a great teacher as Frogman or even attempt to really understand anything about what you are trying to speak of. At least Rok, as infuriating as he can be, has made some effort at understanding and real dialogue. I have seen no real effort on your part, and will reluctantly and very sadly bow out of this thread as well. Reading these last exchanges unfortunately reminded me of what Rex Stout's great detective Nero Wolfe once said - "you can't put sense into a fool's brain - I've tried."
Rok - your question about Beethoven's last piano sonata and jazz. Frogman I would say is basically correct in his response. Clearly, Beethoven had no thought whatsoever of "jazz" in his mind when writing the sonata. But many decades later, young student piano players learning and studying his music took certain aspects of it, and translated them into the jazz idiom. It is quite absurd to say that one can only truly understand a genre if it is invented in one's own country. These things are never so black and white. As Frogman insists, European music had much more influence overall on "jazz" than African drums did. Rhythm is only one aspect, though sometimes the most important one. After all, music is the creating of sound within time. There are no borders to it. It is a universal language, one that anyone can learn and understand, if they have the love for it, and give it the time and respect it deserves.
I have enjoyed this thread, and repeat Frogman's commendations to O-10 for starting it. Most of the best posts ever made in these forums are on it. I have learned a great deal, and have been exposed to some wonderful music that I was not familiar with before. And despite my frustrations expressed above, I honestly do wish O-10 and Rok and everyone else here well. |
As the title of the tune says, "It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing". Enough said.
The youtube that followed was Ella and Ellington performing the same tune.
Youtube trying to make comparisons?
Bass clarinet? You have heard of Eric Dolphy?
Cheers |
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Although Frogman is no longer with us, I feel compelled to find some new high quality jazz. This came to me with high recommendations and I bought it; "Kalenia" by Oran Etkin. Atman said my reason for not preferring new jazz is a generational thing, I'm sure there is some truth in that. Today, I've nominated this CD for a complete review. Although all the cuts were "listenable", I could have lived without most of them. I'll present to you the one that gets a cigar. Bass clarinet is not an instrument I've heard very often, as a matter of fact, I found it very interesting and unusual; that alone rescued the flat spots on this CD, plus superior sonics didn't hurt. While I'm glad I purchased it because of it's uniqueness, I can't recommend it because not enough cuts get cigars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFJsM-hoN7sEnjoy the music. |
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Asian Lounge - Ja Nam / Ancient Future
Both Very good. I liked Ja Nam best. It had more of that Oriental twang. These tunes are a lot closer to Jazz than a lot of the stuff being produced in this country today.
As I have said before, the most beautiful song I have ever heard, was sung by a Korean woman, in Korean. Do not know her name, or the name of the song, or what the song was about. But I am sure, it was about longing and loss. Because that is what it said to me. Proves that music is surely the universal language.
Cheers |
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Rok, if absolutely nothing was labeled, we would discover that we like a lot of things we're not supposed to like.
Enjoy the music.
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***** I hate to say it, but Ramonron has made me aware of something; I like "New Age" *****
Not nearly as much, as I hate to hear you say it. :)
Cheers |
While listening to 'Big Band Sunday' on the local PBS station I heard this tune 'drop me off uptown'. A male female duo. Heard the man say 'anita' and the woman say 'Roy', so I figured it was the OP's girl friend, Anita O'day, with Roy Eldridge. Goggle confirmed it. This would have been considered fairly 'risque' in 1942. But, there was a war going on. After the clip, is a short piece about her entitled 'The Jazz Life'. Anita had such a sexy voice back in the day. Even while just speaking. I now realize she is on this radio station a lot. Where would we be without the internet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8yaW6BluwYCheers |
Rok, "Boy, What a Night" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about in regard to thinking that you have all the most important jazz by any given musician. I don't have that, nor do I have "Barry Harris" (he was a good friend of Nica's) that I'm aware of. I bought Lee Morgans greatest hits, which includes "The Sidewinder", but not the rest of the cuts on that album.
My current decision to go back and buy all the LP's was a good one. Fortunately I have Eddie Harris, Les McCann and of course Oscar Brown. Nina Simone's version of "Rags and Old Iron" was the first I heard, they're both very good.
This is working out even better than I thought.
Enjoy the music.
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*****I call this "Bobby Timmons" jazz, it's just that unique; relaxed, soothing, and uncomplicated, but yet it reaches the depths of one's soul.******
Perfect description. I was searching for the word 'uncomplicated'.
Cheers |
*****After Monk ended his public performances in the mid-1970s he retired to de Koenigswarter's house in Weehawken, New Jersey.*******
Along with Nellie.
Cheers |
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Acman, would you call "The Swingle Singers" third stream?
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O-10-,Those 2 recordings were my examples of 3rd stream Jazz. It still lives. |
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Acman, on Brad Mehldau; too moody and introspective, nice music but "moody and introspective" is not my cup of tea presently. This is not a case of "New" vs "Old", even if it was by an old artist like Miles for example, I still wouldn't like it. Presently, I don't care for Miles slow ballads.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, I agree on the singers; while I like the MJQ in general, on occasion they have gotten too moody and introspective, those are the LP's that didn't get turned into CD's.
Enjoy the music.
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"Nica's Dream" composed by Horace Silver is my favorite tune, and this "messenger's" version is my favorite; but first, let me tell you a little bit about "Nica". Kathleen Annie Pannonica de Koenigswarter was a British-born jazz patroness and writer. She was a leading patron of bebop music. In New York, de Koenigswarter became a friend and patron of many prominent jazz musicians, hosting jam sessions in her hotel suite, and lending them her chauffeur and Rolls Royce when they needed a lift to performances. She is sometimes referred to as the "bebop baroness" or "jazz baroness" because of her patronage of Thelonious Monk and Charlie Parker among others. Following Parker's death in her Stanhope rooms in 1955, de Koenigswarter was asked to leave by the hotel management; she re-located to the Bolivar Hotel at 230 Central Park West, a building commemorated in Thelonious Monk's 1956 tune "Ba-lue Bolivar Ba-lues-are". She was introduced to Thelonious Monk by jazz pianist/composer Mary Lou Williams in Paris while attending the "Salon du Jazz 1954", and championed his work in the USA, writing the liner notes for his 1962 Columbia album Criss-Cross, and even took criminal responsibility when she and Monk were charged with marijuana possession by the police. After Monk ended his public performances in the mid-1970s he retired to de Koenigswarter's house in Weehawken, New Jersey, where he died in 1982. There are numerous compositions in her honour. Gigi Gryce's "Nica's Tempo", Sonny Clark's "Nica", Horace Silver's "Nica's Dream", Kenny Dorham's "To Nica", Kenny Drew's "Blues for Nica", Freddie Redd's "Nica Steps Out", Barry Harris's "Inca", Tommy Flanagan's "Thelonica" and Thelonious Monk's "Pannonica" were all named after her. Here is by far my favorite version of "Nicas's Dream", I can feel it in my bones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lju13U1zEEEnjoy the music. |
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O-10:
I have both of the MJQ CDs. The Swingle Singers disc I don't like. It's one of the type of discs I will use to justify buying the Mingus Box Set. :) It was a nice try, but no cigar. Not very good Jazz or Classical. Or at least it was not interesting enough.
Now I will have to revisit my 'Blues on Bach' album by MJQ to see if they fared any better there, with the classical tyhingy.
'Concorde' is owned by everyone calling themselves a Jazz lover. The MJQ creates a sound you never get tired of hearing. They play Exquisite Jazz, and 'softly as in a morning sunrise' is typical. They also look and act the part.
What's not to like??
I remember a guy from NYC I knew in college, introducing me to MJQ, and what he called 'Third Stream' Jazz. I don't think that worked out.
Cheers |
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Rok, when you heard Pee Wee Marquette on a record, you knew to get ready for some of the best jazz you had ever heard, and maybe that was the best "Jazz Messenger" group ever.
One can never have too many "Dat Dare's" or "Nica's Dreams"; now we know why one can never have too many "Nica's Dreams".
I'm sure you'll enjoy the music better than ever with your new Polk speakers.
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Rok, I call this "Bobby Timmons" jazz, it's just that unique; relaxed, soothing, and uncomplicated, but yet it reaches the depths of one's soul.
"Moanin" needs no words, the music communicates that low as you can go feeling, and there is nothing left to do but "Moan".
Keep em coming.
Enjoy the music.
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Thanks for the compliment Orifice10 but sorry to disappoint you. I think I have a pretty good ear for jazz and a good bs sensor but I not much talent for writing about it. Just a post here and there if you behave. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PBHWgtemaGk |
****Rok, are you going to let "Ramondo" AKA "Frogman" affect your play list review?*****
Yeah right. Your post is just out of sequence. I have already posted Mingus.
Cheers |
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