Jazz for aficionados
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Study the origins of Bebop, then come back. They were studying everyday what the classical composers of their time were doing.***** This is what is called 'wishful thinking' . (1) Name me some classical music that you can point to and say, "this is the origin of be-bop". If anything, 20th century Classical Composers stole from Jazz. (2) Jazz was around long before Be-bop. Study that, then come back. Cheers |
Mercy Lord, Mercy!! Read my posts. I told O-10 that all entertainers must practice. Here it is. ***** O-10: You don't have a leg to stand on. ALL performers and entertainers practice their craft. Even stand up comedians. Your friend was just a Local guy. Maybe he didn't practice because he knew his audience and their level of musical appreciation / sophistication. Had he been trying to have a career in a p[lace like NYC, he would have practiced, or been on welfare. ****** Do I have to say everything twice. You people need to pay attention. Now, if O-10 says his friend did not practice, who are we to say different. Does not mean that can be applied to all musicians. BTW, I don't practice either. Wanna hear me play? :) Cheers |
Tell Armsrong, Parker, Ellington,Miles, ect, it was not about intellect. Study the origins of Bebop, then come back. They were studying everyday what the classical composers of their time were doing. Same with Ellington. He went from dance band to Orchestral. Always been about great musicians intellect. |
We seem to be in a "phase locked loop". I'm going to extract myself and move on. Although David Pike's CD's cost more than most, his music is certainly more interesting than most. He covers a wide range of sounds that were popular in the 60's, from what I've heard so far, and I've only scratched the surface. In my 2-25-16 post, I mentioned "Pike's Peak" that I have in my collection; it stands repetition quite well, and that's an important quality, "repeated listening" means you can put it in a play list, and not throw it out when it comes up again. I'm moving on to "Bossa Nova Carnival" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRPDW2XIly4 on this page we find a few more of his works. I would like for you to review which ever CD you choose, and get back to us with that review. That will enable us to make better and quicker decisions on "new music". One of the purposes of this thread is to aid in the acquisition of new music. This is our life's blood, and what makes us different from many other audiophiles. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, that argument is so tired that it almost doesn't deserve commentary and is just plain bs. No one is suggesting that that is what jazz is. But, please, explain: First you agree that all artists practice their craft, now you seem to contradict yourself. Btw, have you googled "Coltrane practice"? I know reality is hard to take sometimes. ****You need to read Nica's book. Quite a few of the Jazz musicians in her book, and we are speaking of some of the best, said being able to play what was in their head was their most wished for ability.**** Now, Rok, get ready, here it comes, fasten your seatbelt now, are you ready?, are you sure you're ready?, here it comes, I promise......... !!!!THAT'S WHY THEY PRACTICE!!!! |
When you argue with God, that's arrogance. I will assume neither of you claim to be The Lord. The idea that Jazz is some intellectual exercise, is what is destroying, or has destroyed Jazz. Brought about by folks with degrees from 'elite' schools, that are very competent playing their instrument, have loads of book learning, but have absolutely ZERO feel for the music. Their sole mission is try and make Jazz something that ANYONE can play. As Seven of Nine might say, "They Will Fail". Cheers |
I find nothing arrogant in Learsfool's comments, and his very appropriate comment about "anti-intellectualism" could be considered (speaking for myself) as a gentler comment about simple lack of intellect. To those who may be offended by that comment and who consider them arrogant I can only say that there are limits to everything. Acknowledging the limitations inherent in getting to know someone only through a forum such as this and because of the importance on simple respect, I can honestly say that I hope I am mistaken in that last determination. O-10, you are wrong and it is obvious that either I am correct in that last determination or you are simply paying lip service when you refer to the Ted Rosenthal link as a "good link"; had you really read it and understood, at least part of it, you would not continue to be so stubborn about these views. My challenge to you continues to be for you to please address the issues of what all the quoted musicians have had to say on this matter; not with simple "they say absurd things", "they're wrong", "my friend didn't practice", etc..retorts, but with substantive explanations and examples. Hiding behind the subjectivity bullshit doesn't hold water. If you don't feel you know how to speak the language of music well enough to do so, I assure you that it quite possible to do so via musical examples. It's very common in human nature for individuals to become so invested in a personal reality that adds validity and credibility to their sense of self that they shut down to the idea that they may have been mistaken about something for a very long time. Not being exactly a spring chicken myself and having lost an elderly parent very recently I understand how that concept becomes more and more of a challenge as we age. One of the things that may be more subtle to grasp and which is inherent in all of this, and something that every musician who strives for musical improvement holds on to, is the life-long idea that there is always more to learn and understand about an art form. I suspect that, at least on some level, O-10, you and perhaps others as well wish that Learsfool and I would just go away. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on one's point of view) there is too much at stake when some are promulgating ideas about music that simply aren't true. Sure, it's very tiresome and frustrating, but sorry guys I'll be lurking around to at least try to set the record straight; and, I assure that I only try and pick my battles when it comes to this stuff. |
Hi O-10 and Rok - in the sentences I quoted, it seemed obvious that O-10 was speaking of sound, not thoughts. Any good musician can re-create the sound that is in his/her head. We all do it all the time, with every note that we play, whether it is written down or not (and by the way, all musicians play many, many notes every day that are not written down, as part of their daily practice routines - making up their own variations of technical exercises is just one example). This is a separate thing from whatever music/notes they are actually playing, though the two are of course directly related. So it seems that I misunderstood you somewhat. I am not familiar with the quotes you are speaking of from these musicians - I will say that your interpretation of them I suspect is incorrect, as it doesn't make much sense the way you state it. On many levels, of course everyone can translate their thoughts to the instrument, otherwise they wouldn't be able to play it. What I think they may mean, based on what little you have said about it, is that they have more musical thoughts in their head in the moment than they can translate directly to the solo they are playing in that moment. That would make sense, if that is what they mean (which, by the way, is yet another way of saying they need more practice with improvisation). Another thing that they may mean, again without knowing the context, is that one simply cannot play two different things at once, and that they wish they could. Many jazz players try to solve that problem nowadays by experimenting with loops, so they can overlay all of their ideas about a particular tune at once. The drawback is that this takes time, and can sound very repetitive to the audience. One of my best friends, an incredible bass player, has made some really cool experiments in performance with loops. Notice - he is experimenting - practicing!! Is either or both of these thoughts more along the lines of what you meant? |
Learsfool, I don't want you to leave this thread, but if you and Frogman make an absurd statement in unison, the fact that you both are accomplished musicians, will make it no less absurd. You can not practice "improvisation"; how can you answer a question that has not even been asked? And you are saying that you can practice answering questions that have not been asked. If that's not absurd, I would like to know what is. "Improvisation" is spontaneously playing music, the right music, that fits in after the soloist before you. Now explain to me, how you can practice that? You go on to state, "Honestly, O-10, any good student musician, and certainly all professionals, can do what you are talking about here, no matter what type of music they play. Your last sentence above is truly absurd for this reason." That statement was too "wack" for words. You are saying any student musician can do what Oscar Peterson, Sonny Rollins, and J. J. Johnson wished they could do; they wished they could transfer their thoughts to their musical instrument. That last paragraph is almost comical: You are bothered by my "anti- intellectualism", and Frogman is bothered by my arrogance. As they used to say in USAF, My heart pumps purple panther piss for the both of you. Enjoy the music. |
@learsfool ***** Honestly, O-10, any good student musician, and certainly all professionals, can do what you are talking about here, no matter what type of music they play. Your last sentence above is truly absurd for this reason.***** You need to read Nica's book. Quite a few of the Jazz musicians in her book, and we are speaking of some of the best, said being able to play what was in their head was their most wished for ability. When if come to arrogance, you are without peer on this thread. Calling a person 'arrogant', just for disagreeing with you, is in itself, the height of arrogance. Cheers |
Hi O-10: what is "wack," to use your phrase, is this comment of yours: "The only thing you can practice is a written piece of music, or you can practice familiarity with your musical instrument." This is so wrong I am not even sure where to start - it shows your almost total lack of knowledge of what you are trying to speak of. Your next sentences: "This is what it is about; to have a musical idea in your head, and to make your instrument audibly produce that sound exactly as you hear it in your head. That means your brain extends through your hands into the musical instrument and the precise sound you want to hear comes out. The more I talk about this the clearer it becomes. Simply because others don't believe what I'm saying, only means they can't do it." Honestly, O-10, any good student musician, and certainly all professionals, can do what you are talking about here, no matter what type of music they play. Your last sentence above is truly absurd for this reason. Frogman is bothered by your arrogance. That is not what bothers me - what bothers me is your anti-intellectualism. Your "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." You clearly love music very much, and you have two professionals trying to explain to you things about it that you clearly have no idea about, and you just don't care. That's very depressing to me. Now you will probably want me to go away from your thread again. |
I paid $40 for a CD once. Oscar Peterson's "Girl Talk". Some sort of Japanese pressing. The only one I could find, and I had to have "On A Clear Day" on CD. $40 is not a lot to pay for great music. The key word being GREAT. I would pay 40 dollars for these. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wG6Cgmgn5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrRhkY9CIz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F28X8--2dFU Remember when music was always New and Exciting? Lord, I miss those days. Cheers |
After seeing David Pike for $40, I decided to go through my collection and dig out all that crap I bought based on "Stereophile's" recommendations, it ain't worth 2 cents. The stuff I don't want, nobody else wants it either, even when it was recommended by Stereophile. My music collection (the good stuff) is like the house I'm living in, whether the price goes up or down, I ain't selling. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, that was a very good link, and as far as I know, before "that Summer" he lived by it. During the time he was in my apartment, it's quite possible he would have liked to practice, but it was impossible. I'm only stating what I witnessed, no less and no more. As I reflect back to that time, I believe he knew his time was short, and nothing was more important than to get approval for his "new music" from the people, his fans; and he got that when we went to the clubs, he even played center stage under the ARCH here in St. Louis on the 4th of July. You can't get no bigger crowd than that, and he got rave reviews. This is in no way about my philosophy of practicing or not practicing; I'm just giving an account of what I witnessed during one of the most glorious Summers in my life. Rok, you have already given his "old music" four and a half stars, maybe you would give his new music an even 5 if you could hear it. May he rest in peace. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: You don't have a leg to stand on. ALL performers and entertainers practice their craft. Even stand up comedians. Your friend was just a Local guy. Maybe he didn't practice because he knew his audience and their level of musical appreciation / sophistication. Had he been trying to have a career in a p[lace like NYC, he would have practiced, or been on welfare. Medium-sized fish in a very small pond comes to mind. Cheers |
Frogman, I stated that was the Summer he was in my apartment. I'm sure he practiced morning noon and night in order to get so proficient with such a complex instrument, also his mother taught him, that's in his bio. He was playing before he started school and in the church. I was talking to a musician friend of mine, telling him how good my other friend was. "He was good, but he wasn't that good", was his reply. I'll show him I thought; that's when I bought every record I could find of him as leader or sideman. None of those records had the music he was playing that summer. He died not long after he left my apartment, and none of that music was recorded; consequently everything I have uttered about him is "moot", since I can not proof anything about the music he was playing. Of course his musician friends knew he was at my apartment that Summer, but I have no proof what so ever in regard to the music. You can conclude this any way you like, and we can call it concluded. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, first sorry for all the typos. Back on the ground now. Care to join me 😉? Unfortunately, you responded as I expected you would; although I keep hoping. I don’t know what it is you don’t understand about what we are saying; but you just don’t, you don’t get it. Perhaps the concept is too abstract for you. You are wedded to this romantic notion of what the process is and you are simply wrong. You have much to learn about these topics and prefer to live in your self -created reality even in the face of so much evidence to the contrary. You have a real soft spot for the time you spent with your friend and I think that’s a beautiful thing. However, I would respectfully suggest that you are doing him (as a musician), his craft and his memory (?) a disservice by holding on to these mistaken notions. As concerns your friend: since you have provided so little information about him, based on what you have provided I can only conclude that either it really was only that summer that he didn’t practice (which if you think about it would not be surprising given that he was living in someone else’s apt), or that he never reached his full potential because any artist that doesn’t practice his craft simply can’t. As to how all this relates to this thread, I think this thread and the seriousness of its topic deserve better. Did you google Coltrane/practice? Interesting reading for anyone who would like to learn more about the subject. Of course, anyone can choose to shut down and deem it simply "Martian talk" and go back to their own world of artificial (but subjective) reality. From one of the best jazz pianists on the scene today: http://www.tedrosenthal.com/practice.htm |
Frogman, You are saying exactly what I knew you would say; by definition, you can not practice "improvising" , and that's that. East is East, and West is West, never the twain shall meet. The fact that you both are accomplished musicians doesn't change anything; the sky is still blue. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, to be frank, what I am sick of is the arrogance in attempts by a very accomplished professional musician (Learsfool) to offer some insights into somehting that you admit to knowing little about being dismissed as "wack". ****but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me.**** At best, it shows bad form, and to my way of thinking, any doubt about the validity of what Learsfool might be saying should have stopped at that realization. However, I can understand (I think) how someone who lives by the supremacy of "subjectivism" above all else, when faced with a seemingly contradictory experience might feel as you do. First, however, I need to quote a great comment by Learsfool that is key and if understood could eliminate a lot of the bullshit that this thread gets stuck in sometimes: ****The only difference is the idiom, not the process**** The astute and open-minded will notice shades of another important truism. "There are only two kinds of music; good and bad (the other kind"- Duke Ellington O-10, you have been presented with several quotes by jazz greats which show that jazz musicians PRACTICE!!!. Yet you dismiss the testimony of Bird, Louis and Coltrane just as you dismiss the testimony of Herbie Hancock and many others about the importance of KOB. Hmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern 😉 . Moreover, you place a tremendous amount of stock on your experience living with a jazz musician who didn't practice for a summer and assume that this is indicative of how all jazz musicians view "the process". The process: Your friend didn't practice for a summer. So what? Every musician goes through periods when, for whatever reason, they don't practice much. They may be busy performing, or dealing with life issues, or depressed, or simply lazy. I assure you, however, that while they may all have a different threshold beyond which they may feel unacceptably rusty, rusty at their craft they will get. As Louis said, he knew it after one day. As you correctly said, every improvising musician (notice I didn't say jazz musician, per Learsfool's great comment) attempts to translate the abstract ideas in his head to the physical via actual musical expression. To accomplish that the physical apparatus needs to be exercised in a disciplined way: PRACTICE!!!. New musical ideas can only be expressed if the player has visited the technical landscape that those musical ideas are a part of. Example: do you think that the great Freddie Hubbard could have executed those wide intervals that became part of his signature style if he had not spent countless hours PRACTICING wide intervals in every key, so as to have that as part of his "arsenal" and draw from it? You will surely cry, "Oh, but that was in his formative years". Wrong. If you don't practice those tho gas you can't reliably execute them; hand and lip muscles are muscles like any others. Just listen to late Art Pepper or Dexter Gordon for examples of rusty playing. Even more importantly, new ideas are developed by "being in the woodshed" and exploring and teying new things musically; things which are not always possible to do in performance. Do yourself a favor and Google *Coltrane practice* You will read more accounts, anecdotes and even interviews than you'll be able to absorb about his incessant practice routine as part of the creative process. After a solo, he would walk off the bandstand and go to the bathroom to continue working out ideas. He slept with a flute by his bed (yes he played flute) so he could practice laying in bed. i am posting this in incomplete form because I am about to land back in NY and will be losing connectivity any moment. |
Rok, Frogman, Alex; David Pike is the subject; he has a lot of music that I've never heard before, and according to my sensibilities, it's all good music. Why don't we visit "you tube", and get back together with our favorites by him, or discuss why you don't like David Pike if it turns out that way; see you in a bit. |
Frogman, I know you and Rok, are sick and tired of this, so am I, but it will go on until it ends. When you see pictures of Miles talking to Coltrane, Cannonball, or Gil Evans, there is always written music in front of them. When these guys talked about what they were going to do before the event, there was no written music. I never recall seeing any "written music" at any time; now you can make whatever you like out of that. Enjoy the music. |
Learsfool, your whole post was "wack". I had no idea there was so much difference between a jazz musician, and a classical musician. The only thing you can practice is a written piece of music, or you can practice familiarity with your musical instrument. This is what it is about; to have a musical idea in your head, and to make your instrument audibly produce that sound exactly as you hear it in your head. That means your brain extends through your hands into the musical instrument and the precise sound you want to hear comes out. The more I talk about this the clearer it becomes. Simply because others don't believe what I'm saying, only means they can't do it. How specific can I be in regard to the time he practiced, 00 during one summer when he lived in my apartment. Before that time, he had a number of jazz albums that he led, and many more where he was a side man with some of the musicians we have talked about ad infinitum. I have all of those albums and I listen to them frequently. None of those albums have the same music he was performing three nights a week to packed houses; he was in no way new to St. Louis fans and musicians. I was mesmerized at each performance, and since I drove him to each performance (in the deuce) I never missed a one. Jazz musicians in St. Louis have performed as sidemen with practically all the famous jazz musicians we have discussed. A local musician I've known for a long time, showed me his photographic portfolio where he performed with the musicians we have discussed when they came to St. Louis, and needed his particular instrument. My friend had no trouble in getting accomplished jazz musicians on whatever other instruments he chose. Jazz is really the best music to represent America because: It is partly planned and partly spontaneous; that is, as the musicians perform a pre-determined tune, they have the opportunity to create their own interpretations within that tune in response to the other musicians' performances and whatever else may occur "in the moment" -- this is called improvisation and is the defining element of jazz. Improvisation is the key element of jazz. There is no better example of democracy than a jazz ensemble: individual freedom but with responsibility to the group. In other words, individual musicians have the freedom to express themselves on their instrument as long as they maintain their responsibility to the other musicians by adhering to the overall framework and structure of the tune. He was the leader and they discussed for about an hour before they went on stage what was to take place. I looked and listened, but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me. These musicians did not play any standard tunes; that's why the house was packed, his fans did not come to hear "Stardust", they came to hear him "wail", jam, rock the house; they came to hear him, and he was like a wild man on his instrument. Enjoy the music. |
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First Leon Thomas, and now Dave pike; do those people's estates get more money, or just the record companies see more profit?***** One of the strange, and good things, about recorded Jazz music is that a lot, if not most, of the greatest Jazz ever recorded, can be had for less than $10 per CD, while the newer 'Jazz' sometime cost $20 or more. Go figure. KOB $6.99 on Amazon. Cheers |
Hi all - just caught up on the last few days of this thread. O-10, I would like to attempt to help explain one thing you are puzzled by - yes, one MUST practice improvising. As Frogman said, all of these great improvisers practice all the time. One must practice developing one's musical ideas so that they are coherent and understandable for the listener. You can't just go up there and play whatever the hell you want, as you seem to think - that is NOT what any of them are doing. They still have to fit in with everything else going on - the harmony, the rhythm, etc. Think about this - if one did not have to practice improvisation, then any classical musician or rock musician or folk musician or whatever kind of musician could improvise just as well as any jazz musician could. The reason the jazz musician is so much better at improvisation is because he has practiced it, very very hard for a very long period of time. Classical musicians in fact used to do this, especially in the Classical era - performers would improvise during their concertos all the time, in a section called the cadenza. Nowadays, just about everyone memorizes a cadenza and plays the same one all the time, though there are a few who do still improvise one on the spot. One example that I have worked with a couple of times is the famous current pianist, Stephen Hough. He always improvises his cadenzas on the spot, and when he did a children's concert with us one time, he asked the kids for melodies that they wanted worked into the cadenza, and then obliged them. In doing this, he is going through the exact same mental processes as a jazz musician improvising is. The only difference is the idiom, not the process. |
Dave Pike's CD's are running $20 used; it seems as soon as I want to buy somebody's CD's, the price goes up; it's a conspiracy. There are no stores that sell CD's close buy, they all went out of business, and now they're raising the prices on line. First Leon Thomas, and now Dave pike; do those people's estates get more money, or just the record companies see more profit? |
O-10, I believe my words were "there's USUALLY a reason they are not well known"; iow, there are exceptions to every rule. Having clarified that, just because any one of us is not familiar with a player doesn't mean that he's not better known to others. I have known about Dave Pike for years from his work with Nick Brignola (one of my favorite baritone players) and the Francy Boland/Kenny Clark big band, the great European big band. That band, by the way, featured Johnny Griffin on tenor and Benny Bailey the trumpet player in the often discussed Les McCann "Swiss Movement". Pike recorded over twenty (!) records as a leader so he is clearly well known to some. Lastly, I don't think jazz vibes is all that popular. I know some listeners who unfortunately downright dislike the vibraphone, so I think there's probably a smaller "market" for vibes players than most other, and more popular, instruments; so, room for fewer players to be in the limelight. Imo. |
David Pike is someone I haven't heard a lot of, or about, and I can't figure why not? I have him on a CD, "Pike's Peak", that doesn't have one weak cut on it, they all rate 4 stars at least, plus Bill Evans is on piano. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NHC_CNpBLk David Samuel Pike (March 23, 1938 – October 3, 2015) was a jazz vibraphone and marimba player. He appears on many Herbie Mann albums as well as those by Bill Evans, Nick Brignola, Paul Bley and Kenny Clarke. He also recorded extensively as leader, including a number of albums on MPS Records. All Smiles (MPS, 1968) With Herbie Mann The Family of Mann (Atlantic, 1961) Herbie Mann Returns to the Village Gate (Atlantic, 1961 [1963]) Herbie Mann Live at Newport (Atlantic, 1963) My Kinda Groove (Atlantic, 1964) Herbie Mann Plays The Roar of the Greasepaint – The Smell of the Crowd (Atlantic, 1965) Monday Night at the Village Gate (Atlantic, 1965 [1966]) Latin Mann (Columbia, 1965) Well Frogman, according to "There's a reason they are not well Known", how does David Pike fit? Enjoy the music. |
Thank you Frogman, and Rok; now that I can see the instrument when it's being played, I know precisely what sound it makes, fortunately I like Bolero, because I'll be playing it over and over. I can pipe it into the big rig and check my speakers. Maybe this is my first lesson in "objectivity". Enjoy the music. |
A good video to see who is playing what and when. Great camera work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZDiaRZy0Ak Cheers |
Alex, you hit a home run in your quest for unrecognized talent. I knew the name Eddie Costa, but I am almost embarrassed to say that I had not heard his playing. Wow! What an interesting player! That rendition of My Funny Valentine is possibly the most interesting one that I have ever heard. But it was "Diane" that really knocked me out; those "stop time" breaks are fantastic. I love the way that he uses the left hand and bottom of the keyboard for more than just accompaniment and extends the right hand melodies into the low registers. Now, check this out: when I first listened to your clips one of my first thoughts was "this guy's chord voicings sound like Bill Evans; in fact, he sounds a lot like Bill Evans, but looser, less introspective and with a bit of humor". Then I looked at the listed personnel and noticed that the drummer was Paul Motian who also played with Evans. Then, I looked at the other related clips that come up on the side of the screen and what do I see? Bill Evans/Eddie Costa Quartet. The guy was also a vibraphonist and had a quartet with Evans. Interesting indeed. Wonderful player on both intruments. And I love the way he ends the tunes; very unexpected. I must say that of all the "forgotten talent" posted this is one whose records I am buying. Thank you! |
If you just absolutely, positively, must have dance, try these. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc_DuM8h6wU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmOFAtg9twM cheers |
Rok, I'm glad you're as critical as you are, I jumped the gun on that one, scratch the drummer; you were right. I'm going to overlook your last two sentences. This is the way the Dunham Dancers moved to the beat, can you dig it? That gal is hypnotic, you have to be tuned to that frequency in order to dig it, but your tuner can't get that channel, it's busted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwR1V5w_KB8 If this girl got a cd out, I'm going to order it tonight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCkRAPG7sZQ Cuba is where it's at. Enjoy the music. |
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In doing so we should talk about history of music (jazz at least) and about of evolution of personal, cultural and social values that one needs to comprehend before can give a worthy opinion about the subject. I***** This being a Jazz thread, I assume you will talk about the history of Jazz. That means starting in the Southern U.S. in general, or New Orleans in particular. That's where Jazz and it's history started. Now, you should quote folks like Jelly Roll Morton and Louis Armstrong. Cheers |
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.'Thanks therefore, to what is harmonicus in us, we perceive harmonius composition of sounds, and we delight in them for we understand that we are made in their likeness.Similarity is pleasing, therefore, whereas dissimilarity is odius'.Boethius (480-526) De Musica***** Sounds like the Subjectivity O-10 is talking about. "if I like it, it's good". Of course, The OP was not as long winded and pompous as brother Boethius. Cheers |
Alex, Amen!. That is precisely what I have been suggesting for quite some time. If I am understanding you correctly, and if you read my posts, what you suggest is behind many of them. Count me in! O-10, great playing by all and classic Miles. Different vibe from the "Cookin'" session. It should be noted that it (they, actually; its a compilation) was recorded 2 1/2 years before "Cookin'". In the scheme of the many phases of Miles and rapidly evolving style, 2 1/2 years is an eternity as shown by how this recording harkens back to an earlier period in jazz. Listen to Lucky Thomson's playing; shades of the swing players that came before in his sound and vibrato. Yes, less laid back that "Cookin'", but not quite sure why being laid back should be a disqualifier. Great stuff. Thanks! Rok, I agree word for word and made the same comment first time around; except perhaps for your last comment. I don't have an opinion on that. |
In the meantime...Eddie Costa 'My funny Valentine' and 'Diane' from 1959, 'the house of blue lights' album. Very intersting, imho. https://youtu.be/M-8mI5W-0Hk https://youtu.be/YThwn4J0htc |
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those drumbeats are connected to movements in dance.***** Well they must be doing the same movements over and over forever, because this stuff is just repetitive. Think of the dancers as the soloists. The drummers are just laying down a track. Sort of like rap. ***** The dancing that accompanies this music is as structured as any European dance;***** You cannot be serious!! ***** they have to practice***** I thought you said improvisers don't have to practice! You are confusing the Unwashed. ***** I saw dancers in the Kathryn Dunham school of dance where they are taught dances she learned in Africa. ***** Bogus. Part of the pitiful attempt by Liberals and 'activists' to create things in Africa that don't exist today, let alone centuries ago. I mistrust anything that can't be written down, or at the least, be perform over and over again with a high degree of fidelity. Cheers |
Frogman, there's one thing for certain, you could never mistake Miles for anyone else; with or without the muted trumpet, he had an unmistakable sound. Maybe it's because you're a learned musician, but we have slightly different tastes; this is too laid back for me, I prefer "Walkin". Maybe you can critique that one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4egXm9LRj2I Enjoy the music. |
