Jazz for aficionados
I vaguely remember getting distant stations at night that you couldn't pick up in the day; they played R&R, plus R&B. Like you said Pryso, Dick Clark changed everything for teenagers; it came on about the same time most of us got home from school, and we couldn't wait to catch the latest steps. It's funny how we all shared the same sentimental songs; "girls", at least the ones we had a crush on, seemed more complex than geometry, but we were determined to figure them out, which always seemed to involve heartbreak; that brought us to these sentimental songs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngZh6ZSRoYg |
Wynton mentioned playing LOUD. There is always the 10% that don't get the memo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byj8_Ansp14 Cheers |
I’ll get back to you with a more detailed (and obvious) answer. Re Wynton: Don’t blame me if you bruise your rump. C’mon now, go over any and all my comments re Wynton. I have always been very consistent. I feel and have always felt (and said so) that he is a great spokesman for jazz and music in general and a great educator; as well as band leader. Those aren’t the things that I have an issue with. Pretty amazing individual. |
@The Frogman I don’t know if my question was answered or not. I was wondering what is the advantage of being classically trained as it relates to playing Jazz. I always assumed it meant you gained total, or at least better control over your instrument. In the other Wynton piece, I was disappointed to hear that he felt he had to make the obligatory statement about segregation in his hometown. Oh,woe is us. He does not seem to understand that if his surroundings had been integrated, odds are, he would not be where he is now. Maybe he would be playing third trumpet in the Dallas Symphony Orchestra. He would not have had the dedicated teachers he had, if not for segregation. Teachers that were dedicated to teaching HIM, instead of teachers that just had degrees from top universities. There is a good chance there would have been no such thing as Jazz We gained a lot from integration, and we lost just as much, if not more. That should not be forgotten. Informative clips. *****but this is why I love Wynton***** I almost fell off my chair!! Finally seeing the light Frogman?? Cheers |
I really like the way he sings “Tenderly” (in fact, I really like the way he sings period) and would put it a notch above “Breezin” in the “good” from his later over-produced studio offerings. Less of that era’s disco vibe that makes me cringe; particularly on the title tune. For some truly good Benson: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6yArVkXgI |
Rok, what did you do; pick the worst George Benson you could find, he will never forgive you. I know this is overplayed, but at least it's getting back to the "good" George Benson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgl1hQmjITY |
Rok, **** define Classical training **** For starters, let’s try it this way. Just a few who had extensive Classical training: Oscar Peterson Phil Woods Eric Dolphy Freddie Hubbard Cannonball Adderley Bill Evans Donald Byrd Keith Jarrett Bob Berg Michael Brecker Chick Corea Phil Woods Eddie Gomez Nina Simone Anthony Davis Wynton Marsalis Some related comments from “your man” that you may appreciate: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oGo9_YSbPYI Not as directly relevant, but this is why I love Wynton; great mind: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oUaLc1zabVo |
o10, it is interesting to call up popular music from the '50s. Things were still more regional at that time. If you could find Top Ten record lists from Boston, NYC, Philly, Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, and LA for a given date I believe you would find quite a variety. I remember listening to AM radio late evenings from south-central MI in the late '50s and enjoying different music from stations in Boston, New Orleans, Chicago, and a big favorite, WLAC. (Yes, the AM band could travel long distances at night when there was less interference.) Chicago was very similar to my local station's music but the others were all different. But I liked WLS so often listened to that in addition to locals. I think TV and Dick Clark changed all that. The hit lists became almost universal. For all that, I remember and even owned 45s of most of the songs offered here from that era. Lovin' it! |
Today's Listen: George Benson -- TENDERLY When Benson decided to play Jazz, he was as good as anybody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11-TeC5wq90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJwQvv4PhE Cheers |
According to Wikipedia; Jerry Butler, Jr. (born December 8, 1939) is an American soul singer and songwriter. He is also noted as being the original lead singer of the R&B vocal group the Impressions, as well as a 1991 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee. Since there is no R&B hall of fame, one can only go to the Rock and Roll hall of fame; consequently the confusion; but being an "audiologist", I can discern by what it sounds like, that's what it is. |
Any body remember this one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_eOiTwtoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5rvJKviwaE |
*****I beg to differ slightly "Jerry Butler" was R&B, as are most of the tunes you have posted.***** I go by the title and the lyrics. 'For your Precious Love' is definitely not a R&B title. Great R&B titles include this one by Bobby Blue Bland: "She's putting something in my food". No teenage love there!! Cheers |
Categories? We don' need no stinkin' categories! For me, a problem arose when too many categories were identified. Many of those were actually sub-sets, not stand alone for example. Some viewed blues and rhythm and blues as individual identifiers, some put them together. Others considered blues as a sub-set of jazz while calling R&B a sub-set of R&R. Then within blues you can find Delta, Chicago style, Detroit style, urban, country, East Coast, where does it end? Further, Chicago may have Southside and who knows what others? For me the only time defining categories is meaningful is when arranging my music collection, and that is to simplify by major musical type and then sort alphabetically to facilitate finding what I'm looking for. So I defined eight categories for that. With a smaller music library I could live with fewer categories. Musically I agree with Duke as I quoted recently, but that is not helpful when searching through hundreds of choices. |
Man can't live off of Bebop alone. This is not Jazz, but it's from the same thing. Cannonball Adderley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8kpmiOUfjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt4PyEFlf6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSif77IVQdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPGDBZdXuk Cheers |
@schubert : Rock and Roll was just fine. You cannot over state it's importance to young people. I can't imagine being a teenager without this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y7bWN2u1s Rock music was a different thing altogether. Angry, political and drug crazed. Cheers |
Of course they are yours, O-10. Good as yours, which is why you posted them. Now, I would have preferred, as pryso suggested, to get back to “regular programming”, but if you prefer to cherry pick comments and submit them out of context as proof of something that’s ok I suppose. You simply don’t get it, and worse, don’t seem to want to get it. Suggestion: take a deep breath, somehow try to be a little open minded, go over the last two or so days’ worth of posts on the subject and maybe you might get it this time. Regards. |
Frogman; "In the beginning we had the wrong trumpet players, we had those who were classically trained. We had to tell them not to play exactly what was on the score. They started looking at us-at Gil mostly-like we were crazy. They couldn't improvise their way out of a paper bag, so we had to change trumpet players. Like most other classical players, they play only what you put in front of them". Miles had other disparaging things to see about classical music; he called it "Robot s--t". These are some of the remarks he made when he was putting "Sketches of Spain" together. Those are Miles Davis's remarks, not mine. |
Rok, I'm sure you had a wonderful childhood in Mississippi; I recall visiting relatives in Wynona when I was only 5 years old. There was a sweet and very fragrant aroma about the place in the grasslands that I will never forget, although I don't know what it was. I remember watermelons fresh out of the patch, churning butter, incredible food, and lizards; a snake here and there, but mostly lizards; everywhere I was taken, a lizard seemed to be scampering across the dusty road. There was no electricity, and at night they told ghost stories. Fortunately, I always slept with someone, because I was scared to death after all of those ghost stories; I could see "haints" coming to get me. There was nothing more fun than fishing and swimming in creeks, plus chasing rabbits with dogs. I can very well understand how you had a fantastic childhood in Mississippi. |
"I think the Mississippi intellectuals, folks who could read, write and figure, lived up around Oxford." Great line! ;^) When I visited my friend and his wife in Oxford we took a side trip to Clarksdale. I just had to see the famous blues "crossroads". But the devil was nowhere in sight. We had lunch in a funky old bar where I'm certain I would have heard some great blues had I been there any evening. |
Rok, I knew Mississippi was backwards, but that's stretching it, even for Mississippi. When I went down there in 67, I thought I was in "The Twilight Zone". I am not exaggerating, the closer I got to Hattiesburg, the farther back I went in time; the gas pumps were the kind in old movies, my toy filling stations as a child were more modern. The first thing I did when arriving in town was to get the bugs off of the "Deuce". Someone at the car wash upon observing the Illinois plates, remarked "Yall must be from Chicago" "How did yall guess" I responded. Needles to say, riding in a new "Duece" with Illinois plates, in Hattiesburg, in 67, earned me a warm welcome. |
rok, would that have been in or near Oxford? I had a good friend who was on the faculty of Ol' Miss there for several years and I visited once. I liked the town. I thought it was one of the best in the South. But I can't imagine how you would have been disappointed in a "scrubbed up" Hollywood version of rock and roll . . . ;^) The Platters caused me to search for a link to the parody of their "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" but I couldn't find it. It came out after they were busted for drugs. |
@orpheus10 : Two more songs with a story. When this movie was released in 1956, I had a little kid's job as ticket collector at the town's movie theater. This movie, 'Rock Around The Clock', was shown on a Saturday night, a special midnight showing, and ADULTS ONLY. :) Such was the mind set in Mississippi. And I lived in the most progressive part of the state!! Of course as an employee I saw it. I thought for a while it would be the real deal. My imagination was running wild. I was gonna see the good stuff. You can imagine my disappointment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwgnL7V1ugo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eJOJhwgluE Cheers |
Some things should just never be attempted. Cringe Cringe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq4yFgyeOjo Cheers |
I am thinking only of very special jazz musicians, and I assume you are thinking of special concert pianists. The bottom line is I don't resonate with the concert pianists, and it's too late now. Although I feel I'm right because of the "internal" and "external" statement I made, but "it ain't necessarily so". |
And now back to our regularly scheduled programming -- the music itself. This is offered to all those who ask about Afro-Cuban, the Buena Vista Social Club, Santana, hispanic jazz, or drumming. Just see what five percussionists and one bass player can create. Can't say I could hum along, but I enjoyed it. ;^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPvMEZoZoZU |
Just because music is written, does not mean all the performances will be identical. Since we can assume any competent pianist can play the notes on the sheet of music, what separates Horowitz from any other player? I have a billion CDs of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, but I always play Bohm-Wiener. All of them play the same notes. Cheers |
o10, I hope you don’t read this as my joining frogman and "piling on". As you’ve noted more than once, you and I share many musical tastes and appreciations. For all that, I think you look at classical performances in too much of a constricted view. If you really believe "when some guy played the same identical "Bach Concerto" as another guy the night before, and someone else the night before that, I don’t see any latitude for improvisation", then I suggest you read, or re-read, my post at 10:46 PM yesterday. Even as a non-musician I easily hear different interpretations by different musicians of the same written score, be that for soloists or entire ensembles. How else would classical conductors or orchestras develop such individual reputations? There can be and are improvisations in both genres. Yes jazz and classical are very different, but those apples and oranges can all become "juice" for those open to the tasting. |
