Jazz for aficionados
Moving away from piano players re O-10’s interesting question, there is one musician that has to be very near the top of the list of all time great sidemen. The quality of his playing needs no commentary. His discography as a sideman is mind boggling; not only for sheer volume, but for the fact that so many of the records he was on are the most highly regarded in all of jazz. And to think that he only lived until age 33: Paul Chambers With Pepper Adams
With Cannonball Adderley
With Nat Adderley
With Toshiko Akiyoshi
With Lorez Alexandria
With Gene Ammons With Chet Baker
With Walter Benton
With Bob Brookmeyer
With Tina Brooks
With Kenny Burrell
With Jaki Byard
With Donald Byrd
With Sonny Clark
With Kenny Clarke
With Jimmy Cleveland
With King Curtis
With John Coltrane
With Sonny Criss
With Miles Davis
With Kenny Dorham
With Kenny Drew
With Teddy Edwards
With Bill Evans
With Gil Evans
With Curtis Fuller
With Red Garland
With Dexter Gordon
With Benny Golson
With Bennie Green
With Grant Green
With Johnny Griffin
With Herbie Hancock
With Barry Harris
With Hampton Hawes
With Jimmy Heath
With Joe Henderson
With Ernie Henry
With Elmo Hope
With Freddie Hubbard
With Milt Jackson
With John Jenkins
With J. J. Johnson
With Elvin Jones
With Hank Jones
With Philly Joe Jones
With Thad Jones
With Clifford Jordan
With Wynton Kelly
With Abbey Lincoln
With Warne Marsh
With Les McCann
With Hal McKusick
With Jackie McLean
With Blue Mitchell
With Hank Mobley
With Thelonious Monk
With Lee Morgan
With Wes Montgomery
With Oliver Nelson
With Phineas Newborn Jr.
With Art Pepper
With Houston Person
With Bud Powell
With The Prestige All Stars
With Ike Quebec
With Paul Quinichette
With Sonny Red
With Freddie Redd
With Dizzy Reece
With Sonny Rollins
With A. K. Salim
With Sahib Shihab
With Woody Shaw
With Wayne Shorter
With Louis Smith
With Sonny Stitt
With Frank Strozier
With Art Taylor
With Clark Terry
With Stanley Turrentine
With Julius Watkins and Charlie Rouse
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orpheus10 Great blues cut by Gene Ammons featuring R Wyands. I 'm posting more Wyands with Gigi Gryce as leader also featuring R Williams on trumpet. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WnXnmBt6Lyg Check out Wyands comping on this cut"Blues in Bloom" http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_-DLEc0Ijzc |
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C’mon, O-10, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Oh, shi#, are we allowed to say that in this day and age?! Anyway, you can’t possibly mean it; I know you must be joking. Is there someone else who is a real meany posting here without you knowing it? That must be it. Anyway, truce, right? Re Wyands and sidemen: Ah! That’s different. Once again, MY perspective. If you’re talking about a sideman that consistently makes a great contribution to many other artists’ projects, that’s an interesting question because some good players are more consistent than others. I’ll use Rok’s earlier choice of Be, I mean, Bob Cranshaw as an example. He sounds wonderful on that Morgan record, but, to my ears, not so great playing electric bass on some other recordings, even some of Sonny Rollins’. So, I would not choose him as an example of outstanding sideman. I think Wyands is a fine choice. I would add Bill Evans to the list. Incredibly sensitive sideman and accompanyist who was obviously also a leader many times over. To be able to be both is more rare than may seem. Another is Kenny Barron. Both players with the ability to keep their very strong musical personalities (ahem!) under wraps when necessary. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k036P1jsdq4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e-vzGxp8388 Truce, right? |
Nsp, about '45 album.... 'During his comeback years (1959-62) after a decade mostly off the scene, tenor saxophonist Ike Quebec recorded frequently for Blue Note. He started off with a session aimed at the 45 jukebox market and, although he eventually made a few full-length albums for the label, Quebec cut four 45 dates over a two-and-a-half-year period. This double-disc set has all of the jukebox sessions. Most of the 26 selections clock in between four and seven minutes and have long melody statements in addition to concise and soulful solos. Quebec, who was in consistently prime form during his last period, is joined by groups featuring either Skeeter Best or Willie Jones on guitar and Edwin Swanston, Sir Charles Thompson, or Earl Van Dyke on organ. Fun, loose and highly enjoyable music. ' Soul Samba is album that I love, its good that you may hear it on ytube and decide for yourself. If you have a good analog set up, that record might be a 'real deal'. Kenny Burrell plays on it, if that means anything.... |
alex Thanks for the heads up on more Ike Quebec!! I may buy that Jimmy Smith it's a 2-fer -the only J Smith I own is "The Sermon" from that period... could use more. The cut with the singer D Greene is excellent- never heard of her . The "imagination" cut you listed is that a compilation from Blue Note? I could not find a listing under I Quebec's name. I might go for the 45rpm "Soul Samba" .It's pricey but I have numerous other B Note 45rpm reissues and the sound quality is great. |
Before I was so rudely distracted, I was discussing sidemen; Richard Wyands was the one I had chosen; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wyands I have him on various albums that I was unaware of his contributions; Etta Jones, "Don't Go To Strangers" is one of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OaNWjaIdUA |
Sorry you feel that way, O-10; I really am. I made it very clear, it is MY perspective. A perspective pertinent to the way I (!) would answer the question that you asked of everyone here. Why does it bother you so? You certainly have your own perspective and I’m sure there are others who share it. If you or anyone else finds no value in mine, that’s fine. No end game and the last thing I want is for anyone here to “choose” me, whatever that means; although the notion explains a thing or two. Now, I could point out the inconsistency and contradiction between your above “blue sky” analogy and the premise of your sideman question, but it would clearly not be fuitful now. So, what do you say? Truce? I’m game. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=epRXoS_P0lk Try a little Parmesan on that popcorn, mary_jo 😋 |
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Rok, here he is again; Frogman at his nerve wracking best; since he can not be part of the solution, he chooses to be part of the problem. Notice how he uses his "divide and conquer" tactic, by stating the obvious, "There is no best" because that’s a personal preference; guess what Frogman, the sky is blue; did you forget to add that? But there is a sideman that you can choose to put the spotlight on, and Bob Cranshaw was certainly a candidate. "The best" might be a meaningless question, but it is for certain your post is a meaningless post; it contributed nothing to this thread or the conversation. "The reason that this is, as the questioner states, a “great record” (and it is) is that every sideman contributes to it’s greatness and has an equally important musical role" Here again, "The sky is blue"; you are so observant Frogman. Imagine the record without saxophone to fill out the harmony of the melodies, or without the drums and only bass and piano, or without the piano and the resulting absence of harmonic underpinning, etc. Or, imagine different players in any one of those “chairs”; wouldn’t be the same record. Right now I’m imagining this thread without Frogman; I wonder what it would be like? Everything you have stated Frogman, is what we already know, you have contributed nothing. |
Any player, especially rhythm section players, will tell you that to a great extent their own playing on any performance is inextricably linked to, and even determined by, the playing of the other two; basic rule of ensemble playing. No smoke and mirrors, just fact. You chose Cranshaw as “contributing the most” (in a single situation no different than saying “the best”). You liked Cranshaw. Great! But, I guarantee you that Cranshaw would point to the other two as being one of the main reasons he played the way he did on that tune. There’s a lot more to “contribution” than meets the eye. One perspective. Btw, Ben Cranshaw is a pro golfer 😊 |
O-10, it was a legitimate question. Don't fall for all the smoke and mirrors from The Frogman. The question, is pertaining this Tune, with this lineup. Very simple. Does not have anything to do with the 'best' anything. None of this 'suppose this' and 'suppose that'. CAUTION: STRAW-MAN AT WORK. I find it hard to consider Henderson a Sideman, although it is Morgan's album. He would be a good answer also. Cheers |
orpheus10 Yes That BREMEN Mingus concert you posted is the same group that made that 1964 European tour. ThAT Bremen concert and the Cornell 1964 show both have Johnny Coles on trumpet whereas the Great Concert of Charles Mingus is minus Coles who became ill but might have better sound than Cornell 1964 based on the review on amazon. So take your pick or get all of them. the Cornell concert and Bremen show are finds for me and I will buy them for my collection. This is last time Mingus would play with Dolphy as he passed away 3 months later. |
**** which sideman you think contributed the most to this great record. **** It’s a shame that one should have to preface comments this way. This is strictly a personal opinion and perspective; certainly not intended to insult anyone since it is obvious we all listen to music differently and listen for different things in music and even listen for different reasons. That question is, TO ME, like the question: which is the “best” trumpet player?....among many great trumpet players. There is no answer and is ultimately a meaningless question. The reason that this is, as the questioner states, a “great record” (and it is) is that every sideman contributes to it’s greatness and has an equally important musical role. Imagine the record without saxophone to fill out the harmony of the melodies, or without the drums and only bass and piano, or without the piano and the resulting absence of harmonic underpinning, etc. Or, imagine different players in any one of those “chairs”; wouldn’t be the same record. Might still be great...might not be. Classic Jazz quintet; five different and very specific roles. Musicians commonly say “an ensemble is only as good as its weakest link”. This was a great ensemble; no weak links and all equally strong links in their respective roles. |
Rok, you might be right; it's for sure he is at the beginning. Joe Henderson has a mean solo at about 3:58; he's followed by Barry Harris on piano. Bob Cranshaw is slammin on the bass, that can not be denied. Once you put this jam under a microscope, it's like a diamond with many facets; that's what we're doing with the best jams in jazz, like that 100 best you have. Enjoy the music. |
Ben Cranshaw. Sort of like Mingus on piano playing 'hog callin' blues'. Holds and ties it together. My favorite cut off that album. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNK8E7Mwwk0 Cheers |
This thread is going better than it ever has gone; we have acquired connoisseurs of this music who are at that advanced stage where they evaluate the sidemen on the greatest jazz records. Sidemen were the artists who contributed to those great records, and in many cases were forgotten. I'm going to go through this process to illustrate what I'm talking about. "The Sidewinder" by Lee Morgan was a great jazz record by any standard; it was even declared a great record by the masses. First, we have to know the artists on this record: Lee Morgan – trumpet Joe Henderson – tenor saxophone Barry Harris – piano Bob Cranshaw – bass Billy Higgins – drums Next we listen to the record; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJi03NqXfk8 Now I'm not going to evaluate, I'm going to allow you to pick which sideman you think contributed the most to this great record. |
My most expensive CD. I paid over 40 dollars for some Japanese pressing of this album. Not for any audiophile reason, it was just the only place I could find it at the time. Great tunes, plus I just had to have that cover picture. Play at volume. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUUbylwdnc&list=RDUlUUbylwdnc&start_radio=1 Cheers |
*****(I sincerely hope no one is “insulted” by the above info 😇)***** The insult is so obvious, I feel silly pointing it out. First, you know The OP and I are big Mingus fans, you also know we don't have the album 'Epitaph". Sooooo, you announce that "no Mingus collection would be complete without 'epitaph'". Making the OP of the only Jazz thread on this site look bad.;. You think we can't see this???? You think we be stupid?? Cheers |
The first Mingus album I purchased was in 59, or 60; it was the one with the modern artwork; as a matter of fact, that's why I purchased it, I don't recall knowing who Charles Mingus was. After I took it back to the barracks and played it for my "jazz crew", none of us knew quite what to make of Mingus, but we kept playing that album noting unique and different things each time we played it. Since that time, the same experience has been repeated over and over; each time I play a new Mingus album, I hear unique and different things. |
Two seldom mentioned live Mingus recordings worth checking out: “Charles Mingus Sextet with Eric Dolphy: Cornell, 1964”. A two disc set recorded live before the same sextet would tour Europe with subsequent recordings. Fantastic performances and a plus is pretty good sound for a live a recording. Dolphy and Byard in particular sound amazing. Another example of a “lost” tape, it wasn’t released until Sue Mingus found it about ten years ago. No Mingus collection would be complete without a recording of “Epitaph”. Considered by many to be his greatest composition it is a two + hour long work that wasn’t recorded in its entirety until after his death. Parts of it appear on “The Complete Town Hall Concert” (1962); but for a recording of the complete work there is “Epitaph”, a live recording of the entire work from a 1989 concert with orchestra conducted by Gunter Schuller. Amazing musical mind. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S86WzxIbolw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ngCE9Jk-hMA (I sincerely hope no one is “insulted” by the above info 😇) |
Good morning orpheus10 I suggest the following Mingus album. Along with "Live at Antibes" 2 of my favorites: https://www.amazon.com/Cornell-1964-Charles-Mingus/dp/B000R7G77G/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&... |
nsp, is this something similar to what you were talking about? This is different from any Mingus I've heard; Jaki Byard on piano makes it so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kilr601kki0 |
Absolutely nsp; listen to that piano opening by Richard Wyands, it's boss, so is his comping all the way through the jam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKVsMuYoZA |
pjw some Larry Willis as a sideman:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c2-xvN4GWbY http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YoPdmqcs7wM |
