frogmanThat is some connection you found. The tempo is speeded up for Milestones and a few notes are added but it is too similar to be a coincidence. But borrowing a simple add on intro and taking a song written by someone else and taking credit for it are two different things. Not giving Bill Evans credit for writing "Blue In Green" not only robs him 0f royalties but the esteem for having written a major jazz standard performed by countless others for over a half century. My question is :If this is true why didn't Evans sue to have his name put on the song? Did he leave the physical evidence in the studio and had nothing to show as proof? Did he consult a lawyer? Maybe he was naive and did not think his work would be claimed by another? Certainly he wrote mainy other great standards but none so simple and beautiful as BIG, This ones for you you posted this sax player last week. Here on this cd he is with other top notch musicians playing standards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG2_JtXc7T0 |
nsp I just listened to "Chelsea Bridge" by Don Braden and I'm half way through "Blue Minor" from Teodross Avery.
Two really great saxophonist's that I was previously unfamiliar with. That's why I am on this forum to share and learn!
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pjwArchie Moore was the longest reigning Light-Heavyweight champion who did not get a title shot until he was 36!! George Foreman took his style of fighting (peek-a-boo) and Moore trained George when he made his comeback.You were right about Tyson. A bit of a bully ,most guys who fought him were too defensive and lost before they stepped into the ring(worst example was Michael Spinks) . I could talk boxing all day and night but back to jazz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZgYdg4u-Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQqGyMO27h0 |
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pjwSo it sounds like L Thompson may have been an influence on J Carter. I wonder if James has discussed in any interviews who his influences were?
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mary_jo
I am not taking your bet but must think Alex is either very busy or did not like the show .I miss Schubert's contributions also. Hope he comes back.
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mary jo I watched both Tyson/Holyfield fights and in both fights Tyson showed his only vulnerability, and subsequently, the way to beat him.
Now don't get it twisted. Tyson was a great fighter. One of the best heavyweights of all time but far from contention in the best ever.
Tyson had heavy hands and could knock out any boxer even one who was recognized as having a "great chin." Tyson's power was intimidating. As Tyson himself once said and I quote "Every boxer has a plan [against him] until they get hit. I would even go so far as to say a handful of Tyson's opponents were already beat before they climbed through the ropes.
Evander knew his weakness. Stand in there with him through the early rounds and weather the storm. Keep him at bay with jabs and clutch him on the inside. Make the fight go into the later rounds or the "championship rounds" as they are called. If Mike was not having it his way by rounds 5 -8 he was beatable in the championship rounds (9 -12).
Now that I taught mary jo a thing or two about boxing its jazz time.
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Classic “borrow”, pjw. Both great tunes. |
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frogman I definitely hear the connection between "Foggy Day" and "Milestones" I have the Milestones album and have listened to it hundreds of times but I do not own "A Garland Of Red" so I never could have picked up on that having heard Foggy Day to few times to remember. I do know that the beginning of a song by Horace Silver sounds a lot like the beginning of a Steely Dan song (to me anyway) Silver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWeXOm49kE0Steely Dan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZWp-hGCdA |
Great stuff, all! Thank you!! If forced to choose my favorite jazz pianist I am afraid that the spot would have to be shared by two players: Bill Evans and Red Garland (deliberately in alphabetical order). In many ways extremely different players. To me, Evans was very introspective, sophisticated and with a gentle, almost feminine (sorry, mary_jo) touch. Garland is a little more forceful and has a very fun and rollicking sense of swing; what nsp correctly referred to as “impeccable sense of swing”. Then there is that distinctive pianistic technique that he pioneered of playing a solo sometimes entirely using “block chords”. Interesting, but typical, that Miles would choose them both for his bands in spite of being so different; first Garland then Evans. There has been a lot of debate about who the real composer of the fantastic tune “Blue In Green” (Miles, KOB, 1959) was. Miles claims he authored it. There is evidence that it was Evans who wrote it; including from Evans himself who in his usual understated way (like his playing) said so in an interview. Given the little bit that I know about each of them, I think that I would put my money on Evans. Go go back in time a year or so to Miles’ record “Milestones” and the title tune composed by Miles. It was originally titled “Miles”; no absence of ego there. The band is identical to the KOB band, except that it was Garland on piano instead of Evans and Jo Jones on drums instead of Jimmy Cobb. Pay particular attention to the “head” (melody) of the tune: https://youtu.be/k94zDsJ-JMUGo back in time again (1956); a year or two to one of of my favorite Red Garland recordings. Notice the introduction that Garland plays to “A Foggy Day”: https://youtu.be/JwpD3-ojtqMCoincidence? I doubt it. I can imagine Miles and Garland talking about music, tunes and each other’s records and the subject of that little intro coming up. Miles liked to “borrow” musical ideas; probably innocently sometimes, not so innocently other times. I would bet that little intro was the genesis of the tune “Milestones”. High compliment among musicians; but, Bill Evans would never get his royalty payments. Very complicated individual Miles was. Garland with a favorite alto player: https://youtu.be/uS4dFEzn5MU |
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schubert man, you are missed...
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"Alex I'm still waiting on your A. Cohen concert review...….."
20$ that he did not like it...
Who is in?
:-))) |
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pjwas I did more research on red Garland it becomes apparent that his boxing career is confusing. Another site quotes him as being a semi-professional and yet another site said he was a professional and had 35 fights as an unranked lightweight fighter!!. so confusion Reigns on the internet. I am going with your theory that he was an amateur that never turned Pro.
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nsp thanks for the info and I'm glad to see another boxing aficionado as well as a jazz aficionado like myself. Miles Davis was a huge fan of boxing and a friend of Sugar Ray. According to the Davis biography I read Sugar Ray "scolded/lectured" Miles when he was using heroin in the early 50's. Another legendary boxer and one of my all time favorites along with Sugar Ray was Archie Moore the middleweight - light heavyweight - heavyweight. Archie, also known as the "Mongoose" was a great friend of the spectacular tenor player Lucky Thompson and invited Lucky to his training camp to play while Archie was training. Lucky always obliged Archie if he was around and had the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agX6noZYb2k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MACQ1mr0TA0The first link, Slams Mishap, is a tune that James Carter loves. I know this because he has played it in full or in part during a medley at every show I went to. That unforgettable sax chorus 09 seconds into Slams Mishap you will hear at every James Carter concert. A live version of Slams Mishap is on the James Carter album "Heaven on Earth" Alex I'm still waiting on your A. Cohen concert review...…..
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pjw
I am also a big boxing fan. My research shows that red Garland did indeed have a amateur boxing career with about thirty five fights as a welterweight. before he gave it up to pursue his music career. It seemed that both were going on simultaneously. He did fight
just an exhibition bout with Sugar Ray Robinson for 8 rounds which he lost badly. He would later joke that he didn't hurt his hands in the Robinson bout because he only hit Ray about once or twice.
If you Google red Garland- boxing sites will come up where I obtained this information. Sorry I couldn't provide the exact link I'm not that great at this computer stuff.
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Alex
Looking forward to your impressions on the Cohan concert!! Will listen to your music vid post later |
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Still waiting on the Avishai Cohen concert review...…... |
nsp The album "Soultrane" is on another Coltrane box set I have called "Fearless Leader - The Prestige Years" including the extra cuts that did not make it on the original LP.
Red Garland's "All Morning Long" is an excellent album. The 20 minute title cut is worth the cost by itself!
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pjwI have the companion LP Soul Junction listed on your allmusic link but don't have All Morning Long which would be a good addition for both Coltrane and early D Byrd. I was not aware of the box set side steps but this album is probably on it it's a classic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4cQkkObYDY |
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acman3 great drum solo by Baron! |
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alex I listened to the tunes from the "Reds Good Groove" album. Another great session by Red and co. Of the 4 sidemen just Philly Joe Jones played with Red a bunch of times yet the group was locked in. That album is on my list to buy. Here is another of Reds recordings with Coltrane and Byrd: https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Junction-Red-Garland-Quintet/dp/B000000YR0/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?keywords=red...Again, I don't have the album by Red but I have it in its entirety on the Coltrane "Side Steps" box set a couple from Soul Junction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31dwHVGKx3whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYFnCJ80axcIt has been said (by Miles Davis among others) that Red Garland was a boxer who fought at welterweight and once fought Sugar Ray Robinson. I have researched this and cannot find a professional boxer named Red Garland on Boxrec (the number one source for career profiles of every pro boxer since boxing began). I am thinking that Red was an amateur who never turned pro. Or he could have fought as a pro under a different name which was popular during that time (Sugar Ray Robinson's real name was Walker Smith Jr.). I am just as passionate about boxing and its history as I am with jazz. I am leaning towards Garland never turning pro. I’ve been waiting for the A. Cohen review..... |
Paul and Nsp,here is a Garlands album that you should listen to (if not), I posted it before, but never mind. It was session that was not repeated, which is pity, when yo hear the result. Frogman spoke about the reasons such things occure (or better, not) Red’s Good Groove, quintet, with Blue Mitchell and Pepper Adams, from 1962. https://youtu.be/41kWLRTmBjYhttps://youtu.be/7OmTMVDkts4https://youtu.be/wp_w8IUq4G4https://youtu.be/5LoqIc7ZjBghttps://youtu.be/QbbIoJmvDwQWhen I catch little more time, will share few words about that A.Cohen concert... |
nsp I have listened to a few songs off of Red Garland's "All Kinds of Weather" album including the two you shared today. It is an excellent album no doubt (did Garland ever make a bad recording???) but one I never got around to buying. I have 4 Red Garland trio albums The PC Blues, Groovy, Red Garlands Piano, and Swingin' on the Corner - Live at Keystone Korner. The last one I just purchased and it is a great live 2 disc set with Leroy Vinegar replacing Garlands usual bandmate, Paul Chambers, on bass. The Red Garland's "All Morning Long" album is Garlands usual trio plus Coltrane and Byrd. I do not have that album, which is fantastic, on the Red Garland quintet album. I have it in its entirety on the John Coltrane "Side Steps" box set. All Morning Long features just 3 songs. The first song (also the album title) clocks in at 20:21 and the following songs are 10:28 and 6:18 respectively. https://www.allmusic.com/album/all-mornin-long-mw0000198802 |
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acman3Nice Mitchell/Mays vids. Thanks.Mays seems to have flown under my radar as he has several dozen recordings under his own name and I only have one.
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If you have the time to watch this 55 minute video, as I just did, it is certainly worth it. Branford Marsalis Quartet at the Newport Jazz Festival 1987 Kenny Kirkland piano, Delbert Felix bass, Lewis Nash drums https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw_yQ3V5gEU |
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mary jo listening to great music while running your errands is always a plus. Denise Jannah is a great choice as well! |
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pjw
I ordered Donald Byrd's "Mustang" and I will order "Royal Flush " next as I'm trying to expand my collection of his Blue Note recordings. I have "Free Form" the title you mentioned recently on vinyl. Gets a lot of play here.
Just ordered James Carter's "At The Crossroads" will probably order "Out of Nowhere" the music you posted next. Thanks.
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