Frog, Rok, Orpheus, et al - this is by far the most enjoyable thread I've followed on the Gon. I appreciate all your recommendations AND your banter! Great stuff.
Just picked up 4 Roland Kirk LPs plus a Charlie Mariano (in London no less - I consider this an epic shopping day!). They will be cleaned and spun on Saturday morning. Can't wait!
Keep it going, y'all...
Justin |
O-10:
Page 93. WTF? :) Also, on page 96 there is an entry from an 'Ali Jackson'. There is player on my Dee Dee Bridgewater CD 'Live At Yoshi's' named Ali Jackson(d). I wonder if they are kin.
What do they mean when they say "I wish I could play the music in my head"? Is it that, they can't get what's in their head to come out of the instrument, or is it that, what's in their head would not be accepted in that current Jazz enviroment?
After reading a lot of the comments, it has occurred to me that most of these guys were still trying to 'make it' in Jazz. After I understood that, a lot of the Wishes were more understandable.
It appears as if Monk LIVED at the cathouse! Platonically of course! :)
In the same shipment I also received a CD by Cannonball Adderley titled, 'PHENIX' I have never seen or heard this Cannonball! His 'Bitches Brew'???? Will report soon.
Cheers |
****Is it that, they can't get what's in their head to come out of the instrument****
Exactly. They don't feel they have the technical mastery of their instrument (yet) to express the musical concepts that they "hear" in their heads; to translate them from the abstract to the concrete. These guys (most musicians) were/are always striving to grow as instrumentalists; it's a never ending process. That's the part of music and musicianship (the "nuts and bolts") that is seldom understood by the public. "Reputable" professions such as doctor, lawyer, etc. are known to require an incredible amount of study and preparation for many years; not only does it require even more than that to be an accomplished musician, it doesn't ever stop. |
Rok, you really know how to make a guy work; first, out of all the people in that book, you pick somebody that I've never heard of, and ask me if he's related to somebody else that I've never heard of. The Ali Jackson in the book, was "senior" while his son was the drummer with Dee Dee Bridgewater, now I need a break; it's good Frogman answered the other question because it would take me a couple days to figure that one out.
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman, for a minute I actually thought that was Trane, Elvin Jones really made it sound convincing; he was with Trane when I saw them both. I'll have to get that.
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In the book, Charlie Mariano's wish was:
"I wish I had Bird's heart and technique. But who needs the technique? If I had Bird's heart, that would be enough."
Cheers
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O-10:
As far as working people:
Back in the day Coleman Hawkins was rehearsing with Monk's group. Hawkins was complaining about the difficulty of the part he had to play in the tune. Monk said,"you supposed to be a saxophone player, ain't ya??? ahhahahahaha priceless.
Allow me to paraphrase: You and The Frogman are supposed to be Aficionados, ain't ya?
You should know all this stuff off the top of your head.
O-10: Page 93. What's up with that????
Cheers |
Rok, there is no way under the Sun that I'll comment on that page.
Enjoy the music.
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Hi O-10 - I have once again missed a bunch of this thread - I have an album of Willie Ruff's that is very bizarre - he is playing hymn tunes pretty much by himself, some with an organ, in a very boomy church. Could you direct me to which link you are speaking of? I would definitely be interested to hear it! |
Today's Listen:
Marcus Roberts -- ALONE WITH THREE GIANTS
Marcus Roberts Plays Solo Piano. The Three Giants are, Ellington, Monk and Jelly Roll Morton. All tunes are by these great players.
All 15 tunes are well known standards. Only three by Morton. :( The Ellington and Monk tunes are among their best. No filler here.
Roberts is out of New Orleans and it shows. Players from New Orleans seem to have a unique knowledge and feel for the music. Exquisite piano playing!!
The surprise to me was jelly Roll Morton's 'Crave'. Outstanding tune and playing. In this tune you can hear the shape of the music to come. Not sure if it was Roberts or Morton, but it gets a little Monk-ish! Great song!.
Excellent recording. No Faults. Solo piano can get tedious sometimes, but not here. This music will grab and hold you throughout.
I have notice that the closer we get to the source, New Orleans, the more songs with 'blues' in the title. A little food for thought, for my modernist / Internationalist friends, who never miss a chance to throw The Blues under the bus. :)
As a bonus to a certain Aficionado, the CD includes Monk's 'Pannonica". :)
Cheers |
Can anyone recommend a " DVD " of Beethoven's 9th? A performance you have seen on a TV and has first rate audio and video.
Thanks
Cheers
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Don't know about first rate audio and video, but a first rate performance is Claudio Abbado's with the Berlin Philharmonic. They did the whole Beethoven cycle on DVD about 10 years ago now. A very good set. |
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I have not heard (seen) the Abbado/Berlin, but I have not heard anything by Abbado that I have not liked; he is brilliant.
Two others to consider if the music is of top priority: Karajan/Berlin. There is something about Karajan's treatment of Beethoven that strikes a chord with me. I know some feel that it is stark with too much emphasis on precision; still, it somehow rings true for me. The sound is very good, the video less so with too much emphasis on the conductor. I know I am contradicting myself, given Bernstein's drama and theatricality, but my favorite and the one I own is Bernstein's 1989 performance celebrating the fall of the Berlin Wall. He conducted an orchestra comprised of members of orchestras from around the world and famously substituted the word " Freude" (Joy) with "Freiheit" (Freedom) in the chorale. Normally this kind of thing would piss off the purist in me, but the feeling of the importance and symbolism of the moment is palpable in this performance. I think it is the one to own. Both sound and video are very good. But not as good as what I heard/saw at my neighbor's place when he invited me over to check out his new 5.1 HT setup a few weeks ago. The audio and video on this Bluray release is spectacular, the music (interpretation) of this Christian Thielemann/Vienna DVD does not compare to either the Karajan or Bernstein with tempos that are too fast IMO. I'll take good sound with great music over great sound with good music any day. |
The Frogman / Learsfool:
Thanks for the input on Beethoven. After thinking about it, and I do think sometimes, since I have many 9th's on LP / CD, then the video is the thing I am most interested in. I want to SEE all this magic, that I have been listening to for so long. So video quality and camera work are most important.
The Christian Thielemann performance seems interesting.
The Ideal, would be Bohm-Viener-Domingo-Norman-Fassbaender, but I have not found a DVD of that one yet.
I do have Karajan-Berlin-1963-SACD. I thought that would be the ultimate, or at least the ultimate Karajan.
Thanks.
Now let us quickly return to Jazz, before the OP notices!
Cheers |
Today's Listen:
Jimmy Smith & Wes Montgomery -- JIMMY & WES THE DYNAMIC DUO
I thought this would be a small group effort, but it turned out to be a big band thingy. Conducted by Oliver Nelson with Jimmy and Wes dueling out front.
A lot of good ones. Night Train, Road Song, Down by the Riverside, baby it's Cold Outside, etc... They all cook. The big band is only there when needed. They do not intrude on Jimmy and Wes as they push each other.
On this CD, both of these guys, are as good as I have ever heard them. They really do feed off each other. With arrangements by Nelson and personnel of the caliber of Clark Terry and Melba Liston, in the band, what's not to like.
Great Stuff.
Cheers |
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Rok, Dallas Symphony is playing Beethoven's 9th in May of 2013 at the Mort. Not your Daddy's DSO. |
I heard LvB at ther very beginning on piano, and at the end on guitar. But, as has been pointed out on this thread, I don't know how to listen.
Overall, not a bad piece of music. The could have dropped the pretense at LvB.
They seemed to be pretty impressed with themselves, and their playing. Judging by their facial expressions and body language.
Cheers |
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May 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. |
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You guys crack me up. Glad you recognized the intended humor in posting that clip. Actually, I prefer your clip, O-10. |
When I was a child, my aunt had a big diamond in her ring that sparkled all the colors of the rainbow as you turned it under a bright light. Tired of me holding her finger and turning it, she took the ring off when she came home from work. I never tired of watching the brilliant sparkling colors that ring emitted. I just discovered "Rahsaan Roland Kirk" is exactly like that diamond, he sparkles endlessly; old LP's that I've had forever are emitting new colors. Today I was listening to the computer play list when the music really grabbed me. Although I knew it was Rahsaan, I still don't know the name of the tune because unlike CD's, cuts on Lp's aren't listed; therefore, I can only share with you some of his music that might be from that LP. Remember, when listening to Rahsaan it's not just his virtuosity on the unusual instruments he plays, but the totality of his music which is so different from everyone else's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAyStpDSNzs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWPUKskCv7EEnjoy the music. |
As my Baptist Pastor keeps telling me, "man can't live on Bop alone".
Here are my Christmas recommendations and recent acquisitions.
NEW:
A CARNEGIE CHRISTMAS CONCERT -- Battle, von Stade, Marsalis, Previn. CD and DVD!!! Esp DVD!! 100 Stars!
Only Ebenezer Scrooge could not love this one!!
CHRISTMASTIDE -- Jessye Norman
One of the greatest singers ever. On stuff like this she can sometimes be a little TOO operatic, but on this one, she comes down to earth, and it's just perfect. You gotta have it!
CHRISTMAS STAR -- The Cambridge Singers and Orch./ Rutter
Lot of English, German and French carols here. Sung with those unique English voices. Outstanding!. 22 Carols!
Old Favorites:
THE MANY MOODS OF CHRISTMAS -- Robert Shaw/Atlanta Orch & Chorus Telarc
MESSIAH -- Boston Baroque / Pearlman Telarc
MESSIAH -- Toronto Sym / Davis EMI
SONGS OF ANGELS -- Robert Shaw Chamber Singers Telarc
For those of you, Like O-10, that knock on the front door, when you stumble upon a church:
Silent Night from the Temptations Christmas CD.
Merry Christmas Baby - Charles Brown
Cheers
Messiah 'highlights', of course! :) |
Rok, it wont be long before Mrs. Orpheus will be dragging out her Christmas collection, and it will consist of all the Carols we sang as kids; that's when I stuff my ears, smile and pretend I'm listening; but until that time, I gonna Bop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09BB1pci8_oEnjoy the music. |
O-10
Great clips. Enjoyed them all. Esp Kirk's version of 'The Entertainer'. I bet Scott Joplin didn't know he wrote THAT!!
Dizzy's trumpet was not bent upwards. Do you know when, and why, he did that?
Cheers |
Hi O-10 - thanks for reposting those links. It made me realize I had heard of Willie Ruff also in the context of Yale, but never put two and two together that this was the same jazz horn player. I haven't Googled him, so I don't know if he is still living. He certainly hasn't been at Yale in decades now.
The one clip that had him playing horn was quite short, just the Stompin at the Savoy tune. Fine rendition, as far as it goes, doesn't really show off much improvisational skill. I don't have any albums of his other than the one I mentioned where he is playing hymn tunes in a church. I'd love to hear more of him, to really check out what he could do. It's possible that he didn't improvise a whole lot - he certainly would have learned that skill later in his horn playing life, judging from the comments he makes to Gumbel.
He certainly wasn't the best out there in the New York jazz scene back in the day, though this should not be taken to mean he was not a good player. The best jazz hornist out there was Julius Watkins - I have a few albums of his that he did as leader, though usually he was a side man, as pretty much most jazz horn players are. Robert Northern was another, and even Gunther Schuller played quite a bit of jazz on the side back in the day when he wasn't in the pit at the Metropolitan Opera. All three of these men appeared with Miles Davis, at least two of them on Birth of the Cool. Julius Watkins records are worth seeking out, though they are very hard to find and usually very expensive, being Blue Notes. There is one he did for Philips called French Horns For My Lady, all Quincy Jones arrangements. |
The story that Diz told was that at his wife's birthday celebration a couple of dancers fell on his horn and bent it. He played it that night anyway, bent and all, and in spite of the fact that it was now harder to play he liked the sound. He then commissioned a trumpet with an upturned bell and the rest is history.
BTW, the trumpet player on that clip is not Dizzy. I guess it's time for the 3rd installment of the "Lobotomy Award". Who can name the trumpet player? As always, NO CHEATING! And to make things really interesting (in case someone cheats) whoever can name the saxophone player also wins the "No blues, no Jazz" prize. |
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The Frogman.
To name such a distinguished prize 'no blues, no Jazz', Surely must imply agreement with the sentiment! Welcome aboard!
Cheers |
Thanks! But, I have always been on the same train. I think the difference is that you took the EXPRESS; I took the LOCAL. ;-) |
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Today's Listen:
Betty Carter & Ray Bryant -- MEET BETTY CARTER AND RAY BRYANT
Ray Bryant Trio: Bryant(p), Wendell Marshall(b), Philly Jo Jones(d).
This CD consists of three different recording dates. !9 tracks in all. 1-4 Carter backed by a large group, these tunes are from her album 'Social Call', 5-11, she is backed by Bryant's group, and on 12-19, Bryant's Trio without Carter.
Recorded in 1955-56. Very young players. Nice photos. They look like they looked in Nica's book.
Very good performances. I liked the tunes by the Trio without Carter the best. Nothing against her, she was great, but Bryant could really do his thing better without the vocals. This player is really steeped in the Blues. Very dynamic player. One of my favorites. Never makes a bad record.
Mostly standards. Very nice 'Moonlight in Vermont', but, as good as she did it, Billie has made that tune hers and hers alone. Good sound quality. Perfect for late night listening.
The liner notes say this is Bryant's first recording. This was sort of like an introduction to the Jazz public. Recorded the same year the 12" LP was introduced.
My first Jazz Album, if memory serves, was Ray Bryant's 'Slow Freight'. Still have the LP, but no CD!!
Recommended.
Cheers |
O-10:
I agree about Christmas music. I am not into all these pop / Rock singers, and their "Christmas" albums. I prefer the traditional carols from England, Germany and the U.S.
There are a few secular exceptions to the sacred music. They are Johnny Mathis, Nat Cole and Fiedler/Williams and the Pops.
You can listen to Mathis in Texas, in August, and you will still look outside to see if it is snowing. He can really convey the Christmas season and Spirit.
I have the CD of that clip you sent. His version of 'O Holy Night' is awesome!! Nat Cole is in the same category. Love his 'Tannenbaum' For the fun, sleigh riding, modern stuff I reach for the Boston Pops.
I must confess I have two Jazz 'Christmas' CDs. One by Wynton Marsalis and the other by Oscar Peterson. Both very good for what they are.
Cheers |
*******Jessye Norman was too operatic********
Lets just say she was teetering on the fence. :)
******kathleen Battle and Fredrica Von Stade; they made me long for the magabuck system I don't have in order to hear everything, or to have been there in the flesh.******
Mega buck system not required. People have been enjoying this great recorded music since Edison and his player. Sounded great on my Yorx setup! Now being there, I agree! I have since ordered and received, all DVD:
Richard Strauss Gala: New Year's Eve Concert 1992 , also with Battle and von Stade and others. Berlin/Abbado.
New Year's Concert Vienna 1987: Also with Kathleen Battle. Wiener / Karajan
Rossini: IL Barbiere di Siviglia with Battle and others.
MET Opera Orch and Chorus / Weikert
Love her singing. Her beauty has nothing to do with it.
Cheers |
Speaking of photos in Nica's book, can you believe Lee Morgan was a giant among giants at that young age. In the compilation "The 100 best tunes of the 50's", he appears as a sideman on: Moanin, Blue Train, The Sermon; plus lead on "I Remember Clifford".
Lee was shot by a jealous woman at Slug's Saloon, a jazz club in New york city's East Village where his band was performing, and bled to death because the ambulance took so long getting there; it seems they were reluctant to go into that neighborhood. Can you imagine an ambulance being reluctant to go into a neighborhood where Nica "The jazz baroness" went in her Bentley and fur coat after midnight; what a contrast.
I checked Ray Bryants "Slow Freight" and it's on my list.
Enjoy the music.
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Nica's story is the most fascinating jazz story I've ever encountered and she never wrote a tune or played an instrument; she was even too busy living her story to write about it. Since all I had to go by were the slanderous rumors, I believed them up until now. Clint Eastwood made some disparaging remarks about her beauty after she had gotten older, and I believe he was truly jealous; with all his fame and fortune, he was nobody in the jazz world compared to Nica. She was super cool and hip without making any effort what so ever to be that way. I've met people like her, and I wish I could be that way. One such person gave me some sage advice, "Be true to thine self", he told me, in his naturally hip manner; and so he was. Nica lived for the moment, and her life after she became "The Jazz Baroness" was one continues set. She told one of her nieces to meet her at a club: "How will I recognize the club"? "Look for the car" was Nica's response. The niece instantly recognized the club, it was the the one with the badly parked Bentley in front, that had two winos lolling around on the leather seats. "They keep anyone from stealing the car", she was told after finding Nica. This was in a tiny basement club, where Nica was the only white person in the joint. "Smoking a cigarette in a long black filter, her fur coat draped over the back of a spindly chair, Nica gestured to an empty seat, and picking up a teapot from the table, poured something into two chipped china cups. We toasted each other silently. I'd been expecting tea. Whisky bit into my throat; I choked and my eyes watered. Nica threw back her head and laughed." "Thanks", I croaked. She put her finger to her lips, and nodding at the pianist on stage, said "Sssh, just listen to the music Hannah, just listen", as she swayed to the sounds. After that soaks in, you can begin to percieve Nica; no wonder "Nica's Dream" is my favorite tune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDrxzKYdwsAEnjoy the music. |
I think our OP has been smitten by the Baroness! :) Screw Eastwwod, she was a beauty by the standards of the European elite.
Cheers |
Today's Listen:
Louis Armstrong & Oscar peterson -- LOUIS ARMSTRONG MEETS OSCAR PETERSON
Pops mostly sings here. Very little trumpet playing. Oscar and his trio give awesome support. Great line up of tunes. Louis is in fine voice.
Still, something is just not right here. Maybe it's because it's a studio recording. Maybe the Trio is not the best backing for Louis.
I am used to him carrying on, and interacting with the other performers. A lot of trash talking / flirting with a female vocalist. Also, no trombone!!
Both Louis and the Trio were great. The overall effect was just not what you would expect, given the performers. Perfunctory?
Maybe live, with Basie or Ellington would have been a better match. Of course he and Ella would have been the dream team!!
But, Louis and Oscar can never be bad. Just not as great as they usually are. This is like Louis in NYC, when we want him in Nawlins!! :)
Cheers |
Smitten is putting it mildly; she's my dream jazz date, I can just picture us on the set, "Sssh, just listen to the music Orpheus".
Here are two of "Satchmo's" three wishes; "That I go back to the world and see the fans, and play for them again"..... "That I live a hundred years, so I can enjoy what the next generation's doing, same as I do this one".
His wishes were so prophetic that you would think I made them up if you didn't have the book.
Enjoy the music.
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Great tune, Nica's Dream; aka Orpheus' W..... nah, I better not ;-). Thanks for sharing. Came across this when listening to Nica's Dream. Check out Blue Mitchell's solo; holy cow! If you want to get geeky, check out 1:26. He plays this little motif, repeats it transposed to fit the changing harmony and then the magic happens at 1:29 with the most unexpected, strange but perfect note choice. These guys were brilliant. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73pex5SGd0YBTW, there were no takers, but the trumpet player on the "Bebop" clip was Jon Faddis; from his tribute to Dizzy album. |
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Fabulous! It really doesn't get a whole lot better than that; thanks for the clip. Phil Woods is fantastic and Tom Harrell is without a doubt one of the unsung heroes of the trumpet; a beautiful player. Checkout his flugelhorn playing sometime; he has an unusually introspective and warm sound on flugelhorn. Great clip! |
Loud, fast and empty! Thrombosis alert! Always check the audience's reaction, that will tell you what's going on.
Cheers |
Empty!?! Empty!?! Damn! At first I thought you were referring to the "Bebop" clip; "loud, fast and empty" was exactly my reaction. I didn't say that because... well, like my grandmother used to say.....You seemed to like the "Bebop" clip, even if it wasn't by Diz.
But, wait!, you mention the audience; so, you must be referring to either the Horace Silver "Cool Eyes" or the Phil Woods/Tom Harrell. Now I am really confused. On the Horace Silver clip the Dutch audience looks like they don't know what hit them and seem totally uninvolved; in spite of the great music. On the Phil Woods/Tom Harrell clip what I can see of the audience is mainly two gentlemen who are clearly digging the playing (big smiles of appreciation on their faces), and there is big applause and hollering after the solos. But, that tune IS faster and louder; so that must be the one you refer to.
First of all, I didn't think "loud" or "fast" was ever an automatic disqualifier. But, empty? This must be the first time that I have heard Phil Wood's or Tom Harrell's playing referred to as "empty": complete mastery of the language of bebop and its harmony, great swing (yes, fast and relentless; but, that is the point of the tune: "Tenor Of The Time") from some of the acknowledged contemporary masters of the music, especially Woods and Harrell. So, in the spirit of enlightenment and sharing can you expound on that a bit? What is it the makes it empty for you; what is lacking? Better yet, what do you hear in the "Bebop" clip that you don't hear in the "Tenor Of The Time". Perhaps the music was better than you think, and had the intended impact on you simply because a very good argument can be made for the tenor of our time being "loud, fast and empty". But, the playing? No way! |
Frogman, before I could only compare the different versions of a tune, but now that we have you to give us a new perspective from a "nuts and bolts" point of view; maybe you could compare these two versions of "My Favorite Things". I know you're tired of hearing this, but I'm going to tell it again. When I saw Trane live, this is what he played; try 45 minutes of "My Favorite Things". Miles said Trane played for himself on live performances; I saw Miles and I had no idea what he was playing; talk about the pot calling the kettle black, that's the best example yet; but Trane worked the tune so many different ways. I was at a table with some professional musicians, and they were in a Trance; to be honest, I was lost; but I'm sure you would have enjoyed it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33o32C0ogVM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG2dsXV5HIEnjoy the music. |
*****Empty!?! Empty!?! Damn! At first I thought you were referring to the "Bebop" clip; "loud, fast and empty" was exactly my reaction. I didn't say that because... well, like my grandmother used to say.....You seemed to like the "Bebop" clip, even if it wasn't by Diz.******
Can we at least agree that today is Friday?
I thought I liked the 'Bebop' clip in spite of it being Dizzy. When you said it was Faddis, then I thought, well that explains why I liked it. Dizzy is a seminal figure in Jazz and a great player. An imposing personality and innovator. And, he did go to Cuba, which changed everything for the better. Can't talk about Jazz without mentioning him.
Just not my favorite trumpet player, just as Bird, is not my favorite Sax player. Has to do with style, not talent.
Cheers |
*****But, wait!, you mention the audience; so, you must be referring to either the Horace Silver "Cool Eyes" or the Phil Woods/Tom Harrell. Now I am really confused. On the Horace Silver clip the Dutch audience looks like they don't know what hit them and seem totally uninvolved; in spite of the great music. On the Phil Woods/Tom Harrell clip what I can see of the audience is mainly two gentlemen who are clearly digging the playing*******
I am speaking of the 'TRUMPET' playing on the Woods/Harrell. clip. This conversation started with trumpet playing. The Horace Silver clip I saw, was just a still shot of the LP cover. Nica's dream. No audience. I may have missed a clip. But I can assure you I would not be critical of Silver. On the Woods/Harrell clip, there are a few shots of the audience. One shows that, during Harrell's solo, people in the booth have turned their backs to him! Not a good sign, assuming they are Jazz lovers. But not proof of anything either. Other than having a big un-Jazz like, belly, Woods was Ok by me.
Cheers |
