Jazz for aficionados
Well, I must confess Sousa is one of my favorite composers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyrmVBfe2Bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw The Brits are very good at Marches, esp since they have 3 bands for every Infantryman. Cheers |
Why all the angst? Have you ever heard Frogman play Free Jazz? He leans toward a traditional preference on Jazz, in case you haven't noticed, but seems to have an open mind on most Jazz. One of the reasons you listen to Jazz is to go to the fun memories you have of the day. No music takes me back to those days, only today and tomorrow, so we listen for different reasons which you will never get. I'm not looking for comfort, but interesting music, to me. Great if you or others enjoy it. Play what you like, and move on. Disregard what you don't understand. Negative comments are cool, I know where you are coming from. I will now go back to playing music. Most of all have some fun. Life is way too short! |
Today's Listen: The most hated / feared group on Aficionados. Also maybe the best. Duke Ellington said they were 'beyond category'. From a few days ago, this is the real best version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU-n68b9yPw&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w&index=9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKt8dRdb5-4&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsiwAiG_jz0&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w&index=4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIdSaCXBT24&list=PLFrtbCBlUofgXYy7_xOG5BfIjTKCsdB5w&index=7 Cheers |
Questions to The Frogman: A person sits in front of a stereo system and listens to a tune he has never heard before. He does not know the group playing. He has no prior knowledge of any aspect of the music he is about to hear. Can a person tell just from how the music starts and what and how it's played at the beginning, whether or not there will be a vocal component to the tune. Cheers |
**** If jazz is moving so freely forward, why are you submitting so much jazz from the past? Why aren’t you submitting jazz from 2010 at least **** O-10, because you brought up the subject of “free jazz” and, based on your post it seemed to me that you were connecting all post-bop jazz with free jazz. Two totally different genres. “Modern Jazz” has moved well beyond hard-bop while having nothing to do with free jazz. Moreover, there has been a tremendous amount of post-2010 Jazz posted by myself and others and two (“so much”?) examples of interesting, or at least significant, “free jazz” seemed like an appropriate contribution given your reference to it. Lastly, the obvious: 2010 to the present is a mere ten years; jazz, as you know, has been with us for a century. Many more examples, no? This subject has been beaten to death here, IMO, and there is a tendency to go around in circles with these general sub-topics. Bottom line, and as has been written many times: ”there’s the good kind and the other kind”, and we can find examples of both from any time period including the present. Regards, and I hope that answered your question. |
Pharaoh Sanders, “The Creator Has a Master Plan”. Amazing! Thanks. What other hat wearing tenor player had a tenor tone later in his career almost exactly like Pharoah’s? Both came up in the “free jazz” scene around the same time (mid-late ‘60s). Interestingly, his tone was fairly conventional at first and for the time: https://youtu.be/BuyT7d8ex5M Gato then went to a tone concept like Pharoah’s. However, he used it to move to a much more accessible genre: World Music/Latin pop. Usually works the other way around as far as tone goes, but it worked for him. “Trane was the Father, Pharoah was the Son, I am the Holy Ghost"- Albert Ayler Go in with an open mind. Otherwise, you may not come out 😊 https://youtu.be/GXscqwF2E00 |
The Duke answered this question years ago. I don't know why people insist on making Jazz some kind of fly by night music that goes in and out of style like some teenage top forty 'hit'. The 'good stuff' goes through life with you. There is no new and old. Just the good and the other kind. Today I was watching a thing on youtube about 'million dollar' stereo systems. The most beautiful rig I have ever seen. Had three 10" RTR decks. Power amps the size of dog houses. You get the picture. One of the tunes he played on the RTR was "house of the rising sun". Didn't catch the female singing. Couldn't hold a candle to Dee Dee, but there it was. Now read the wiki article. Note the dates, times and places concerning the 'origin' of House of the rising sun. Without doubt, it goes in the 'good stuff' column. Humans will be playing it forever. Only the 'other kind' is blown away by time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_the_Rising_Sun#Origin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOygJsLDc4&list=RDMM6sOygJsLDc4&start_radio=1 Cheers |
Jazz is never stuck. Whether we can unstick ourselves to understand, appreciate, or like where it has gone is another matter. There is a big gulf between today’s Jazz (modern, by definition) and “free” jazz. The great majority of today’s jazz is not free jazz; but, stuck it is not. **** There is no new and old. Just the good and the other kind.**** Not sure about the first sentence, but the second is exactly right. |
Very nice player, Oliver Jones. Nice clips. Student of Oscar Peterson and shows it. He doesn’t quite reach the amazing technical command of Peterson, but who does? Lighter touch and not quite as rhythmically assertive as Peterson, but brings a somewhat more modern harmonic approach to the table as your second clip (Mark My Time) demonstrates; as opposed to Peterson who always stayed in that place between Swing and bebop. I like him. Thanks. https://youtu.be/tvS4Mm_bVEY |
Why do we like the music that we like? In pop music it was thought to be a generational thing. I'm applying that same theory to jazz, and it works out to a point. Beginning with "swing", which was before "Bird", he brought in "be-bop" which phased into "hard-bop" and what I call "modern jazz" that covers a lot of territory. "Bird" was active from the 40's to 55 when he died. Most will agree, no one person made a greater change in jazz than Charlie Parker; since his time, jazz has branched out in different directions, all related to Charlie Parker, and morphed into what most people call "modern jazz". That has gone on through the 60's and into the 70's. We did a side step with "fusion", but we went back to "modern jazz", which is pretty much a catch all category. I can't see where we have gone past "modern jazz"; somebody keeps talking about "free jazz" which sounds like "chaos" to me and a lot of other people; anyway, that "free jazz" never quite catches on, I know I have a lot of it I would like to sell if anyone is buying. If there is some great movement after "modern jazz" that has eluded me, would someone please bring me up to date. I stated music and jazz was a generational thing, and I haven't gone anywhere in a fundamental sort of way for decades; am I stuck, or is jazz stuck? |
Today's Listen: Oliver Jones -- A CLASS ACT A Canadian pianist. His international reputation is far greater than his rep here in the USA. I love his playing. He is like another Canadian Jazz pianist, Oscar Peterson, in that, he is not a creative innovator, but a very fine player. A Class Act indeed. His career shows the importance of being fully merged into the Jazz scene in this country. It makes a difference. Here are three tracks from the CD, two written by Jones and one by Bill Evans. All very easy on the ears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLvSLL5aSAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKd9_H6248Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6XMqToof4c Cheers |
Acman, I've never heard that Max Roach before. I'm glad it's nice and long; I'm listening to it as I type. That's new, new if you know what I mean, and I think you do. All of that inventive percussion has really captured my attention. I don't know any of the players but all of them are mesmerizing. I'll get back to you with my conclusion. |
David, if you've been following this thread, you know how much I like Grant Green and Ike Quebec. Here's one of my favorites by Ike; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwc1bTn7Fd8 That vinyl will be worth the wait. |
I’m fairly new to the jazz genre, but decided a few months ago to give it a go, and now realizing what I’ve been missing all these years. These are the Lp’s and sacd’s that I’m starting with and they are perfect for me. Ben Webster - Ballads Ben Webster meets Oscar Peterson Coleman Hawkins encounters Ben Webster Dexter Gordon Clubhouse Miles Davis - Kind of Blue Ike Quebec - Blue & Sentimental while I’m not an aficionado (yet) I look forward to continuing my journey and exploring and discovering all the fantastic recordings out there. |
Wanna hear drums / percussion, you don't have to leave the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZTJYst1bjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmDDOFXSgAs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNBm5_f7gKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmCCxMp7BE Much much better. Cheers |
When American Blacks want Africa in their music, they have to go to Africa and get it; like Blakey; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahBlJTNd8Xk&list=PLyHn3f7-9IUKa7Q8_Ja8H-WyX0brISR-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tep3zOnZZc8 |
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The truly skilled make the music flow , almost like the horn was playing itself . https://youtu.be/cYaH7GpoOiM?t=3 |
Today's Listen: Randy Weston / Melba Liston -- VOLCANO BLUES Very talented duo. She plays trombone, sometimes, and does all of the arrangements. Although they do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and effort trying to recreate a nonexistent connection between American black music and Africa. All vocals by Johnny Copeland. Weston played this at Billy Strayhorn's funeral. Spot on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGNJWWeApJg Who the heck is 'Rheinhardt' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc88YI0ZIPs Beautiful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QPaJQG3Et0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlTurF-3c60&list=OLAK5uy_nagRFmDie08YY3tYwke_0nceKOUEFm7dI A Count Basie tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=157DzDQuiaA&list=OLAK5uy_nagRFmDie08YY3tYwke_0nceKOUEFm7dI&index=5 In the notes, some very strong statements concerning The Blues and Jazz. Some by Langston Hughes. But I dare not start a 'Ruckus' Cheers |
**** what do you know about Joe Wilder **** Wonderful trumpet player. I have heard many Joe Wilder stories and references from musicians in NYC of that generation (many no longer with us) and who worked with him; he was a fixture in the NYC scene. They all speak of Wilder with nothing but admiration and references as to what a kind individual he was. He graduated music conservatory (Manhattan School of Music) where he developed his unusually “schooled” technical ability. He was one of very first to break into the previously all-white (and lucrative) Broadway musical theater scene. Amazingly for a Jazz player he also worked with the NY Philharmonic in their trumpet section. All, surely enabled by a his formal training since a certain kind of playing is required to be successful in those fields; a level of control and technical finesse on the instrument that Jazz players typically don’t have. His playing had a very suave and elegant quality about it and with a rhythmic feel that clearly showed that he was coming out of the Swing era. Beautiful stylist who improvised in a very harmonically “inside” style typical of the pre-bebop Swing era. A bebopper he was not. I love his playing. Suave and elegant: https://youtu.be/QseqYFnDJBs |
Joe Wilder was also a pit musician. Pit musicians who play in pit orchestras are not only required to play multiple instruments at times, but they must also be familiar and able to play in multiple keys, styles, and tempos and make a switch instantaneously. The orchestration for a musical is written in a key best suited to range of the singer. Some keys are more difficult to play in than others because of the increased attention that greater amounts of sharps and flats require. Musicals also tend to have a number of styles which can range from a soulful ballad to a syncopated funk tune to a driving hard rock song. Many musicians have been trained to play in a certain style, such as classical music, but in order to play in pit orchestras, musicians must be able to play a range of different styles. Because musicals are live, many elements can change from show to show; pit orchestra musicians consequently should be able to play different tempos every night and even skip through their music to a new spot if an actor or singer makes an error. I know you guys remember my long and boring post about watching these musicians when I went to a Broadway show. Would you like for me to repeat it? I must have a unanimous vote for an encore. |
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Sorry Rok, the OP didn't come through this time; however, I have discovered a lot more on Joe Wilder. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/may/18/joe-wilder https://www.jazz.org/dizzys/events/143130/18/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HovGUENbDY |
Today's Listen: Joe Wilder -- WILDER' N' WILDER This guy has been around a while. Played with Dizzy in the Les Hite big band back in the early forties. Assistant Band master in the Marine Corps. The entire CD is Monaural. For you youngsters, that means no stereo. You only needed one speaker. Ah, those were the days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn2sN46qbLc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfxTdcQv3AY This guy has a fantastic tone. Just the opposite of Dizzy. Age quiz. How much money is 6 bits? No Cheating. I bet only the OP will know. Cheers |
