Jazz for aficionados

@curiousjim, I have been pulling out a bunch of Brazilian CDs I forgot I had. I'm now listening to Selma Reis and Maris Monte. I listened to Jorge Ben yesterday, but my wife was home and I couldn't blast it, the way I think it needed to be. The recordings were made live in an arena and need to fill the hall.

A question has arisen, though. I don't know if any of these are really jazz. They sound more like Brazilian popular music. I have many Brazilian (French, African, etc.) recordings whose genre I've never tried to distinguish. I love Angelique Kidjo, but I'm not sure I'd call it jazz. It doesn't really matter when I'm listening. I like what I like, but for this forum, it might matter?

@stuartk, I think you need to take a couple things into consideration about what you like now and what you don't. First of all, hearing music live is a very different experience. There have been a number of artists I haven't liked until I hear them live.

Then, our tastes change as we age. I think the reason I continue to listen to Tania Maria and Flora Purim is because they are jazz. A lot of the other music I have from Brazil is popular music. And quite frankly, I grew up with American popular music, have been more exposed to it, so I like it better. Even though I took some exotic tours when I was younger, I have returned to Paul Simon, The Band, etc., when it comes to popular music. 

@stuartk, you are welcome. I know exactly how you feel about certain Brazilian music genres as it is a acquired taste. I felt the same way when I was first exposed to blues jazz, be and hard bop, Miles, Dexter Gordon, Charlie Parker and a host of others were hard core herion addicts and it was a complete shock to me as a young man trying to learn the essence of jazz.

I also think you listen to and know of far more about Brazilian music than you give yourself credit. For example you know what MPB is, were others may not. After hearing Clube Da Esquina has also ruined me and that is why I have described it as an OPUS, for sure. That’s also why I’ve tried to post here what I call Brazilian jazz, made by and for Brazilians other than the more Bossa Nova and MPB influenced tunes for the same reasons you state above. Unlike others, I don’t equate Bossa Nova to Jazz. I look at them as two different music mediums.

Brazil does have a very big beach culture but there are far more mediums of music in Brazil. In the states we have about 40 different types of music were as in Brazil they have about 60 different types of music. Brazil was founded about 100 years before Plymouth Rock so they’ve had much more time to develop their music culture.

I’m pretty sure you’ve heard of Hermeto Pascoal. Miles Davis referred to Hermeto Pascoal as "one of the most important musicians on the planet". He also called him "the most impressive musician in the world," according to Red Bull Music Academy Daily. These accolades highlight Davis’s high regard for Pascoal’s musical talent and innovation. Maybe try and re-introduce yourself to his music.

I’ve actually seen a Candomble ceremony in Salvador, Bahia Brazil and other forms of Brazilian music up close and personal, being played by some masters of their craft so I have a very different outlook than just someone listening to an lp.

One thing I do know. This jazz for aficionados thread is a stunning depository of music unlike anything I’ve ever seen or heard before. I wouldn’t be surprised if this thread is Smithsonian worthy.    

@tyray 

Thanks for your understanding and for sharing your knowledge and experience. I suspect I wouldn’t be frustrated if I didn’t believe, given the richness and diversity of Brazilian culture, there surely must be some style of Brazilian music that will appeal to me. Despite the tone of my previous post, I’m not ready to give up. I will check out H. Pascoal. 

@audio-b-dog 

No doubt you are right. I can’t help (whether consciously or unconsciously) but compare Brazilian Pop to the American music that’s far more familiar to me. I’m used to greater dynamic contrasts and variety of mood as opposed to the more understated, mellow MPB approach. Clube Da Esquina is not in this ultra mellow vein, however.  The later "Milton" with H. Hancock and W. Shorter is good if not quite as timeless and and invigorating as Clube:  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G85Qa0cnKRk&list=PLHsZtZLpiZPfHDJJBQf5irTiY9lXYCz0E

I like Flora Purim but the 70’s Fusion-tinged recordings that I’ve revisited now sound pretty dated to me, although I haven’t listened to all of them. Yesterday I was listening to some of Airto’s early solo recordings, some of which feature Flora’s vocals. I hadn’t heard those before and am interested enough to listen some more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY-NGZptgZw&list=OLAK5uy_kkRo-c0Q-7ABiby0BB_ZHrUuL74N50nMM&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJFMR_fzZI&list=OLAK5uy_kLkFvx7Av-CAb7Wy7psLg75H8YDiSllro

 I will make a point of going through Flora’s recordings more comprehensively to see if there are some that might appeal to me that I’ve either forgotten or never heard.

@stuartk, You’ve already had a chance to check out Hermeto Pascoal here:

tyray 740 posts 06-07-2023 at 08:20 pm

I’d also suggest you do a search not only on his albums but check out some of his gigs with/on Miles albums too, and if you like any of them, post ’em here...

Just in case anyone wants to know what Milton Nascimento album @stuartk and I are talking about it’s the Opus O Clube Da Esquina 1972 - Full Album. The whole entire album is a banger. You can tell he listened to a lot of the Beatles...