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Jazz And Speaker Placement

Inspired by the purchase of a new pair of speaker stands (custom made for my LS50s, whatever good that does), I just went through a painful reevaluatIon of my system’s speaker placement. A lot of reading—particularly into the SBIR phenomenon, along with KEF’s own literature—and even more experimentation. Two guidelines: No rules and no big money on footers.

The last time I tried this, I wound up with the speakers on spikes, 4” from the speaker wall, with socks stuffed into the ports. (Some members of this forum may not have heard: I’ve done away with the terms “front” and “back” walls, along with the confusion and explanations that always accompany then, in favor of the terms speaker wall and listener wall. Please use these terms going forward.)


The first person to hear this setup asked, “Where’s the bass?” He was right. The sound had been tightened within an inch of it’s life. Bass and drums were staccato, with plenty of black space audible. But that’s not the way bass sounds, nor a kick drum. They are soft instruments, with lots of attack and decay. They are not “transients,” at least not in the way that I understand that word. (To me, “transient” has about the same descriptive power as ‘postmodern.”)

This was “audiophile bass,” to borrow Paul McGowan’s phrase, and it had to go. The socks had been long gone by the time the new stands arrived, now, following the advice of McGowan and our own MillerCarbon, I got rid of the spikes and replaced them with a dot of poster putty. Played around with the positioning but kept them in the SBIR-friendly spot close to the wall.


“Miss You” by The Rolling Stones was my reference bass sound during all of this. Great bass line and it now sounds glorious. But I’m still new enough at this game to question my own ears. So allow me to ask the jazz lovers on this forum a question:

Bill Evans’s famous stand at the Village Vanguard has been issued on two albums (probably more). The Paul Motian-heavy “Sunday At” and the more normal sounding “Waltz For Debbie.” In my new setup, I’m “Waltz,” Motian and LeFaro are as loud in the left channel as Evans does in the right. (I may have the channels reversed.) Is this how it’s supposed to sound? In the old days, Evans dominated. Now the famous interplay among this trio is more clear.


It sounds good but it’s definitely a change. Is this how it’s supposed to be?

Worried in Williamsburg.
paul6001

Showing 3 responses by zlone

zlone
420 posts
 
I have LS50's and placement challenges as well, and am a jazz fan familiar with the Vanguard album. Based on your post I played the first track and yes, I would say the sides are close to even level with with some edge given to Evans. I thought they were even at first, but then realized I had not shut off my subwoofer. With that off, edge to Evans, but still pronounced bass on the left channel.

I would say this about your configuration, if you are four inches from the wall, you should be using the full foam bass plugs supplied with the LS50's. With open ports that close the wall I expect you will get boomy bass, though I understand with the foam the overall bass is significantly decreased, it will be higher quality. Definitely don't use a sock, use the foam that came with them.

I built special stands for my LS50's to work around some fixed obstacles in my room and so I could get my speakers about 10" from the wall allowing me to use the half foam plugs. This greatly improved my bass response and clarity. I really wish I could get a couple feet and remove the plugs altogether. 

If you are jazz fan with LS50's I cannot recommend strongly enough that you invest in a good subwoofer. I started with a Polk and now have a REL 7i, it blends perfectly and adds so much to the sound.

While I am at it, and starting an entirely different conversation, even though the Vanguard recording is considered one of the great performances, what is up with splitting the piano to one channel and bass/drums to the other? Makes for a disappointing soundstage.
zlone
420 posts
 
If it sounds as good as you say, then you have a good solution. In my situation it booms if I get too close. Glad you love your system.

I hear what you are saying about bass not being some simple transient. Proper bass at all volumes is of highest priority in my system. Getting that full rise and fall with the long tail of natural bass is critical. If all you hear is a thump, that ain't it.

I get the apartment thing, subs are probably not a good idea. Visited NYC in early 2020 right before COVID changed everything, caught shows at the Vanguard (w/Ron Carter!) and The Jazz Standard.
zlone
420 posts
 
Yes, I heard the Jazz Standard closed, bummer. Good food and a good space. We actually went to see Emmet Cohen at the Vanguard, but the bonus was Ron Carter was playing bass with them. $35 a ticket, not bad. We would have gone to any show as the trip was planned before the tickets were bought. I really wanted to see a piano trio, so it was a happy surprise to see them on the bill. Yep, definitely no lounging around after the early show, move along folks. Still worth it.
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